Heres why there is no Peace between

[daniel49]

No ones in charge in Palestine.
They can't even honor a truce among thier own.
Its just that simple.
Text

 

[Termagant]

Originally posted by: daniel49
No ones in charge in Palestine.
They can't even honor a truce among thier own.
Its just that simple.
Text

So was Arafat good in that he was a central figure respected generally amongst Palestinians???

 

[Craig234]

I guess the US is totally dysfunctional as a people because it had a civil war.

Put a nation like Israel - far more powerful next to us, occupying much of our land with a lot of conflict, and tell me there would be no armed conflict between Americans with some saying to cooperate more with the occupier and some saying not to, just as the French had different groups under the Nazi occupation.

 

[Lemon law]

Given that its a fight between Fatah and Hamas-----I would certainly recommend that wiser heads in Israel hope that Fatah wins---but dumber heads in Israel are pushing the lot into the hands of Hamas and Hezbollah. Short term Israel may rejoice that the powerless enemy is now divided. Long term its likely to bite Israel big time.

The legacy of Arafat and Fatah is to totally fail in delivering anything positive in getting tensions down by recognizing Israel. Now a more radical force is winning in both Lebanon and with the Palestinian people. Soon the influence of Hamas and Hezbollah will spread while the influence of Israel remains fixed or diminishing. As the moderates are driven out on both sides, things can only get worse.

 

[daniel49]

Originally posted by: Craig234
I guess the US is totally dysfunctional as a people because it had a civil war.

Put a nation like Israel - far more powerful next to us, occupying much of our land with a lot of conflict, and tell me there would be no armed conflict between Americans with some saying to cooperate more with the occupier and some saying not to, just as the French had different groups under the Nazi occupation.

You do understand what a truce is , yes?
Its your word of honor. If they can have no honor among themselves , how can they have it with others.
As a people they have become so caught up in thier hostilities, they have essentially lost thier way. And I see nothing but bloodshed in thier future, till they find it again.

 

[daniel49]

Originally posted by: Termagant

Originally posted by: daniel49
No ones in charge in Palestine.
They can't even honor a truce among thier own.
Its just that simple.
Text

So was Arafat good in that he was a central figure respected generally amongst Palestinians???

yes and no.
He had the respect, but was very corrupt and used his power to accumulate wealth for himself.

 

[Tom]

Originally posted by: daniel49
No ones in charge in Palestine.
They can't even honor a truce among thier own.
Its just that simple.
Text

Destroying a countries' infrastructure and economy tends to lead to chaos, especially if the occupying force thinks it's in their interest to destroy hope and someone else's 'inferior' way of life, or beliefs.

It's an ancient tactic used to control or defeat a people.

 

[Lemon law]

Hey when the Egyptians had the Israeli people in times of Pharaoh---it worked really well---they proved useful making bricks for generations---until this spoilsport named Moses came a long and unleashed all manner of plagues on Egypt.---as he said let my people go.

Arafat was no Moses---sooner or later the Palestinian Moses will come along.---or is it already there in the person of the long range rocket in the hands of Hezbollah?

The problem with the new Moses will be in the cry---not of let my people go but give me my land back.---will there be an Israeli Solomon wise enough to share the baby?

 

[daniel49]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Hey when the Egyptians had the Israeli people in times of Pharaoh---it worked really well---they proved useful making bricks for generations---until this spoilsport named Moses came a long and unleashed all manner of plagues on Egypt.---as he said let my people go.

Arafat was no Moses---sooner or later the Palestinian Moses will come along.---or is it already there in the person of the long range rocket in the hands of Hezbollah?

The problem with the new Moses will be in the cry---not of let my people go but give me my land back.---will there be an Israeli Solomon wise enough to share the baby?

Your Biblical knowledge is slightly off. It was God who released the plagues.
Moses was only a mouth piece.

They will not find peace with a rocket, they will find peace when palestinian women love thier sons more then they hate jews.

]Isreal has tried to share and been stabbed in the back for the effort. The continued violence will reverse that trend again..forcing Isreal to reclaim the land they gave back.

 

[Blackjack2000]

Originally posted by: Lemon lawThe legacy of Arafat and Fatah is to totally fail in delivering anything positive in getting tensions down by recognizing Israel.

lol

 

[magomago]

Even during Arafat that was a very troubled issue to deal with - of getting everyone on the same page. No matter what kind of deal happens, there will always be those on both sides who are not satisfied. So what do you do when you are trying to make progress, but a group keeping running and blowing stuff up? In the past, the IDF didn't do a good job of punishing the right people. Instead you have a type of collective punishment - and we've seen where that has gone.
On the other hand, most Palestinians do see the chance to live with Israel - but they want 1967 lines where they at least have a largely contiguous nation[of course we would be talking about Gaza and WestBank] that they can control and provide for. However, there is hatred simply because they are Israelis because children of children are growing up in large refugee camps that might as well transform into new cities at this rate. Hamas itself has repeated its emphasis of the potential of a "long term truce". In my serious opinion, I think Hamas is a LOT more practical thank we think - but with such a polarized Palestinian movement right now how can you ensure your power and control over people by saying immediately "okay Zomg we totally accept Israel". They would alienate a lot of their supporters who want a - full - liberation of Palestine.
So what do you do in the mean time? You say that a "long term truce" is possible, because it still implies that confrontation can appear. You satisfy those who want peace, and you atleast keep those at bay who want Israel off the map...and ideally if things get better then you marginalize the latter, especially those within the Hamas organization itself. We must remember that Hamas began as a peaceful way to help Palestinians before its militant arm morphed into actively fighting and resisting Israel; the question is whether or not they can go back those roots....and despite the crap we have given Hamas for the past year, they have subtly indicated that they are willing but we need to pay attention to these signs ~ because when dealing with such a delicate issue the subtle signs are, quite frankly, the most important.

edit:

btw, I'm also unimpressed by this lack of honor in keeping a truce. One of the biggest and most emphatic points of Prophet Mohammed, and in the Quran - is that you honor truces or deals. It doesn't matter WHO it is with...so as long as the other party honors it, so must you.
So to see both sides do this is really disgusting. Despite the fact that most of you want Fatah to win, from an outsiders perspective I find them absolutely corrupt in some of the worst ways. Hamas, providing we walk CAREFULLY with them has more potential as we wean them towards us and away from Iranian elements
But of course we ourselves are prodding this conflict as even Israel is supporting Fatah.

 

[Lemon law]

To magomago,

Don't know where you dredged up this concept of honor----it hardly describes human nature---or the conduct of Israel, Fatah, and Hamas---but of that three---Hamas has the best claim.