Here's the official F U to the Westboro Baptist Church

[DisgruntledVirus]

This church is the group who shows up to funerals of fallen soldiers and protests them. They run www.godhatesfags.com, and chant how soldiers deserved to die and such at their funerals.

Lance Cpl David Baker was killed in Afghanistan, and this group was going to come out to protest at his funeral this past Saturday (link: http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/10/kansas_church_to_protest_funer.html). Well, I'm glad to say that a local radio station put together a tribute to him, and played his favorite song an hour and a half so people could drown out the protesters. They setup a "Tribute line" where people could call and leave voice mails (along with the family and friends) that also played during the tribute.

http://www.wmms.com/pages/soldier.html

Well, I'm proud to say that not one protester showed up because of the support the people here had to remember somebody who gave their life for these people to even be able to protest. I am, for once, proud to say I live in Cleveland where we show our support for families who have lost loved ones protecting our freedoms by keeping these protesters away from the funeral. I hope this happens anytime this group plans to protest a soldiers funeral in the future.

RIP David :Rose;

 

[waggy]

yeah. they were going to protest NIU when the shooting happened. We also heard they were going to a local soldiers funeral here but they didn't show up.

 

[Skitzer]

Isn't this church just a handful of related nutjobs?
I thought they quit acting moronic and showing their hate filled stupidity years ago.

 

[Lemon law]

I have nothing but complete contempt for the Westboro Baptist church. To even imply that a soldier who died in a foreign war had a pro gay agenda defies all logic and needlessly pours salt into the open wounds of the soldier's family and their entire community. To say nothing about the nation itself.

But still I have to support the right to free speech so I am baffled in terms of a solution. I would certainly support stripping such a church from the roles of tax exempt organizations, but I believe that has already been done.

To some extent I would advocate reviving the time honored custom of riding such folks out of town dressed in tar and feathers, and astride a rail. But I sadly suspect they will sooner or later meet up with some hot heads and they will either get the total shit beat out of them or lose their lives. And if I ever ended up on the jury prosecuting those that did violence against Westboro church members, I would have a very hard time voting to uphold their rights to equal protection under the law. I would probably opt for that other time honored custom of jury nullification.

 

[Red Irish]

Funerals are not a place to protest anything.

 

[StageLeft]

They are a small church I think. Free speech does not within common or practical sense provide them the ability to say anything anywhere regardless of how it affects others. Unless you are an uncompromising pedant it requires little argument to demonstrate how standing off to the side of a person's funeral cheering their death should not be permissible and there are laws in place that could charge them like disrupting the peace or whatever else.

It would take a simple law to prevent these people from doing stuff; say no demonstrating within a certain distance of a funeral or whatever.

Given how small a group they are though no new laws need to be created, but it's unfortunate if you're in the tiny minority of circumstances that put you on a collision course with them.

 

[shira]

But still I have to support the right to free speech so I am baffled in terms of a solution. I would certainly support stripping such a church from the roles of tax exempt organizations, but I believe that has already been done.

How is it acceptable to strip the tax exempt status of an organization for publicly advocating a point of view? All sorts of tax exempt organizations engage in protests.

I totally disagree with the agenda of the Westboro Baptist Church. But I also totally disagree with any attempts to remove their tax-exempt status.

 

[BeauJangles]

This stuff is such bullshit. This family has already paid the ultimate price to this country and these dickheads feel like exercising their free speech rights to grind salt into their wounds? I can only hope that karma catches up with them in a hurry.

 

[MovingTarget]

The WBC folks are nutjobs for sure, but unless they violate any of our laws (resorting to violence, trespassing, etc.) then they should not get their tax exempt status revoked for expressing a point of view. The best thing any of us can do is to fight fire with fire...by protesting that church itself regularly and calling them out for being off their rockers.

 

[Lemon law]

I can understand the argument of Shira and others regarding free speech and a tax exempt status to go with it. And while all churches tend to get tax exempt status, it still comes at a price of not engaging in politics. And a church engaging in politics is a clear cut reason to revoke such a tax exempt status.

Maybe the Westboro Baptist church could receive such a tax exempt status, but it would, IMHO, involve dropping the Baptist and Church from their name.

 

[shira]

I can understand the argument of Shira and others regarding free speech and a tax exempt status to go with it. And while all churches tend to get tax exempt status, it still comes at a price of not engaging in politics. And a church engaging in politics is a clear cut reason to revoke such a tax exempt status.

Maybe the Westboro Baptist church could receive such a tax exempt status, but it would, IMHO, involve dropping the Baptist and Church from their name.

So should the Catholic church be stripped of its tax-exempt status because it advocates against abortion, the death penalty, and same-sex marriage? That's "politics," too.

It's one thing to advocate for or against specific candidates or ballot initiatives - all tax-exempt organizations (not just churches) are barred from that. But general issue-advocacy isn't barred.

 

[AstroManLuca]

I'd like the WBC to stick around, actually. They don't actually hurt anyone physically, and they act as a unifying force. Them being dicks is one of the few things that everyone in this country can agree upon.

 

[chucky2]

So should the Catholic church be stripped of its tax-exempt status <snip>

Yes, it should.

Chuck

 

[Patranus]

They are a small church I think. Free speech does not within common or practical sense provide them the ability to say anything anywhere regardless of how it affects others.

Funny how the expanded definition of free speech by the courts is acceptable when it furthers the liberal cause but when it doesn't, it is unacceptable.

(NOTE: I do not agree with the churches actions)

 

[Brainonska511]

So should the Catholic church be stripped of its tax-exempt status because it advocates against abortion, the death penalty, and same-sex marriage? That's "politics," too.

It's one thing to advocate for or against specific candidates or ballot initiatives - all tax-exempt organizations (not just churches) are barred from that. But general issue-advocacy isn't barred.

Yes, it should.

Chuck

Why?

The Catholic Church's stance isn't mere politics though. Part of the CC's moral teaching is the preservation of life (no death penalty, no abortion) and the preservation of the nuclear family - don't get divorced, marriage before sex, sex only for procreation.

 

[Brainonska511]

Funny how the expanded definition of free speech by the courts is acceptable when it furthers the liberal cause but when it doesn't, it is unacceptable.

(NOTE: I do not agree with the churches actions)

Funny how conservatives don't scream "Activist judges" when it favors their point of view, but they scream it loudly when it doesn't favor their view point.

Hypocrisy is all around us.

I don't agree with WBC's stance on pretty much everything. But I don't support the suppression of their right to free speech. For crazy people like that, we, as a society, should just stop giving them media attention. Shut off the cameras and ignore them, and they'll just fade into obscurity.

 

[Lemon law]

Shira asks " So should the Catholic church be stripped of its tax-exempt status because it advocates against abortion, the death penalty, and same-sex marriage? That's "politics," too."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Having a church doctrine that applies to Catholics only is not a violation of the tax exempt status as long as it stops at the church door, but taking a too active part in the national debate regarding abortion and thus going past the boundaries of separation of church and State is. By in large, and IMHO, the catholic church has stayed on the right side of the the boundary, but a few activists bishops have been putting the entire catholic church in danger of overstepping those bounds recently.

Since the decisions on tax exempt status are likely to made by courts rather than "politicians", they will be, at a minimum, be very hard to overturn.

 

[shrumpage]

I can understand the argument of Shira and others regarding free speech and a tax exempt status to go with it. And while all churches tend to get tax exempt status, it still comes at a price of not engaging in politics. And a church engaging in politics is a clear cut reason to revoke such a tax exempt status.

Maybe the Westboro Baptist church could receive such a tax exempt status, but it would, IMHO, involve dropping the Baptist and Church from their name.

wrong.

Churches and non-profits can weigh in on issues, they just can't endorse candidates.

 

[KMFJD]

Twisted fucks these people are, they do this shit with the intention to rile people up and then they sue when their rights are breached....

 

[Atreus21]

"Some people just need their asses kicked."

 

[Avalon]

"Some people just need their asses kicked."

This. I'm waiting for the day. They deserve it.

 

[Modelworks]

Somebody should remind them of a few things:

"For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you." Matthew 7:2

Meaning, if you are harsh and intolerant of the life of others condeming everything they do you had better have your own life in order as God will use those same standards when he reviews how you lived your life.

If you are kind and understanding then God will be the same when he looks at your life.

So these people really must want God to go through every thing they did with a fine tooth comb and condemn them for every wrong thought.

 

[chucky2]

Why?

The Catholic Church's stance isn't mere politics though. Part of the CC's moral teaching is the preservation of life (no death penalty, no abortion) and the preservation of the nuclear family - don't get divorced, marriage before sex, sex only for procreation.

Does it involve itself in politics though? Yes. Bye bye tax exempt status.

Chuck

 

[JEDIYoda]

Does it involve itself in politics though? Yes. Bye bye tax exempt status.

Chuck

The problem is all entities involve themselves in politics in some w way no matter how tiny the involvemnet is.....

So basically what you are saying is that there should be no such thing as a tax exempt status for anybody!

 

[chucky2]

The problem is all entities involve themselves in politics in some w way no matter how tiny the involvemnet is.....

So basically what you are saying is that there should be no such thing as a tax exempt status for anybody!

If you have a non-profit that 100% takes in donations and spends that money 100% on buying and rehab'ing homes for the homeless, doesn't go and make speeches, doesn't donate to political campaings, doesn't fire up its members to vote and/or donate, etc etc., then I'd say they can be tax exempt. That literally means though that 100% of the people working for that non-profit spend 100% of their time doing straight non-profit work...not meddling into politics.

As soon as a for-profit and/or non-profit starts sticking its nose into public matters, they should lose their tax-exempt status.

I have no problem if that means 98% of the non-profits become tax'd. Let them each decide how much it's worth to interject themselves into the public mindset.

Chuck