Here's more proof that Diebold voting machines are easy to manipulate.

[blahblah99]

I've always been skeptical about ANY machine that handles data electronically without a paper trail. After reading about this article and seeing these pictures, I have absolutely no faith in electronic voting machines (and hence, the election system in the US) that do not have paper trails.

If you look at the pictures, one of them show a silkscreen on the PCB that allow bootup of the machine using external EEPROM. This means that the machines can be rigged in a matter of minutes by changing jumpers to allow different code to run - say code that would ensure that one party's tallies are ahead of the other. Worse yet, if there is a connector that exposes the eeprom bus, one could literally re-program the boot code in a matter of seconds.

The solution to this problem is simple, really. Have the votes networked to a national database with an encrypted string of the voter's name and address while providing a paper trail of the encrypted string along with decided votes. If they can make ATM machines that can keep track of transactions down to the fractions of a penny AND transmit financial data securely through the network, they can sure as hell design an electronic voting system that can tally without the fraudulent counts.

I wouldn't be surprised if there are complaints bout voting fraud this November.

 

[Harvey]

Die, Die, Diebold! :|

 

[dmcowen674]

Voting is irrelavent now anyway.

Both clubs are run by the same people.

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: blahblah99
I've always been skeptical about ANY machine that handles data electronically without a paper trail. After reading about this article and seeing these pictures, I have absolutely no faith in electronic voting machines (and hence, the election system in the US) that do not have paper trails.

If you look at the pictures, one of them show a silkscreen on the PCB that allow bootup of the machine using external EEPROM. This means that the machines can be rigged in a matter of minutes by changing jumpers to allow different code to run - say code that would ensure that one party's tallies are ahead of the other. Worse yet, if there is a connector that exposes the eeprom bus, one could literally re-program the boot code in a matter of seconds.

The solution to this problem is simple, really. Have the votes networked to a national database with an encrypted string of the voter's name and address while providing a paper trail of the encrypted string along with decided votes. If they can make ATM machines that can keep track of transactions down to the fractions of a penny AND transmit financial data securely through the network, they can sure as hell design an electronic voting system that can tally without the fraudulent counts.

I wouldn't be surprised if there are complaints bout voting fraud this November.

There have been complaints since 2000 and before... no one cares and it keeps people in power.. don't expect a change until people start caring..

 

[wiin]

There is only one way to end all the complaints. Let the democrats win the election. In fact don't even hold election. just tell the democrats that they get to ruin the country. You will never hear one complaint after this.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: wiin
There is only one way to end all the complaints. Let the democrats win the election. In fact don't even hold election. just tell the democrats that they get to ruin the country. You will never hear one complaint after this.

What are you, stupid? This is exactly the problem, people assume fundamental issues with the voting process are partisan political issues and they treat them as such. Republicans are of course fine with ANY system where Republicans win, and an equally large number of Dems are only unhappy with the system because they aren't winning. Neither side really cares about having a fair system, it's all about winning...and that goes double for people like you who pretend it's only a problem with one party or the other.

 

[Kadarin]

The flaws in these machines are so blatant that it's as if they were designed specifically to permit fraud on a grand scale. The people responsible for this shouldn't just go to jail, they should be put up in front of a firing squad.

 

[kage69]

There is only one way to end all the complaints.

Right, require ballots to be submitted through the USPS.

Let the democrats win the election.

But then who will spend our futures into oblivion? What of all the inroads religion has made into government? Don't make the energy-lobbyists cry, we need'em to help keep alt fuels down!

In fact don't even hold election

Now you're talkin Rush! Next on the agenda, that pesky antiquated Constitution.

just tell the democrats that they get to ruin the country.

I doubt they'd believe it; going from being shouted down and rail-roaded in Congress to running the show? Might seem like a joke - What is this, the 9/11 Commission?

You will never hear one complaint after this.

Oh I'm sure partisan hacks like you will think of something, the stream of self-righteous indignation from political blowhards is as constant as death and taxes.

 

[babylon5]

Stealing whatever is left of our little democracy in good old USA is rather easy these days with these machines.

 

[kage69]

The people responsible for this shouldn't just go to jail, they should be put up in front of a firing squad.

Heh, weren't a handful of Diebold programmers already convicted felons? I recall hearing that awhile ago but I'm not sure if it's legit (wouldn't surprise me though - this is the party that gave us Watergate remember).

 

[trenchfoot]

the thing is though, the decision-making process that determines whether or not easily corruptible and unverifiable voting machines are used excludes the millions of voters who rely on those machines to exercise their constiutional rights.

the decision to use these hackable and unverifiable voting machines are by design made by those persons that can be properly motivated by those very powerful people that sit beyond the reach of mr. average joe USA.

ask yourselves this: why would anyone abandon common sense and logic to choose to use voting machines that are not only easily hackable by design, they are also built in such a way by design as to make verifying its results impossible?

c'mon now, i couldn't ask for one thing more if i wanted to control the outcome of any election of my choice.


what really scares me is that diebold et al is refusing to correct these glaring deficiencies despite the fact that it's common knowledge that they built these machines to be easily hackable and unverifiable by design. they want to use them anyway. why? and who's letting them get away with it? i have to assume that diebold, et al know that the average citizen is powerless when it comes to trying to force them to clean up their act.

it's plainly obvious that the guys at the top decided that it's a whole lot easier and cheaper to make me vote in their favor after i've voted rather than before.

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: wiin
There is only one way to end all the complaints. Let the democrats win the election. In fact don't even hold election. just tell the democrats that they get to ruin the country. You will never hear one complaint after this.

What are you, stupid? This is exactly the problem, people assume fundamental issues with the voting process are partisan political issues and they treat them as such. Republicans are of course fine with ANY system where Republicans win, and an equally large number of Dems are only unhappy with the system because they aren't winning. Neither side really cares about having a fair system, it's all about winning...and that goes double for people like you who pretend it's only a problem with one party or the other.

The only people crying Diebold are the sore losers still displaying Kerry bumper stickers.

 

[outriding]

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: wiin
There is only one way to end all the complaints. Let the democrats win the election. In fact don't even hold election. just tell the democrats that they get to ruin the country. You will never hear one complaint after this.

What are you, stupid? This is exactly the problem, people assume fundamental issues with the voting process are partisan political issues and they treat them as such. Republicans are of course fine with ANY system where Republicans win, and an equally large number of Dems are only unhappy with the system because they aren't winning. Neither side really cares about having a fair system, it's all about winning...and that goes double for people like you who pretend it's only a problem with one party or the other.

The only people crying Diebold are the sore losers still displaying Kerry bumper stickers.

And I give you exhibit A

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Voting is irrelavent now anyway.

Both clubs are run by the same people.

Wow...i agree with Dave?!
...maybe you can use more of this instead of flat out accusing people of being nutty Republicans

 

[Krakn3Dfx]

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: wiin
There is only one way to end all the complaints. Let the democrats win the election. In fact don't even hold election. just tell the democrats that they get to ruin the country. You will never hear one complaint after this.

What are you, stupid? This is exactly the problem, people assume fundamental issues with the voting process are partisan political issues and they treat them as such. Republicans are of course fine with ANY system where Republicans win, and an equally large number of Dems are only unhappy with the system because they aren't winning. Neither side really cares about having a fair system, it's all about winning...and that goes double for people like you who pretend it's only a problem with one party or the other.

The only people crying Diebold are the sore losers still displaying Kerry bumper stickers.

Uhhhh...moron.

It's not about DEMs or GOPs, it's about a fair voting system with a reasonable chance of votes being counted. Just because the criminals are on your side doesn't mean you shouldn't be concerned about the dwindling democracy of our nation. You sir, are an ignorant ass.

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: wiin
There is only one way to end all the complaints. Let the democrats win the election. In fact don't even hold election. just tell the democrats that they get to ruin the country. You will never hear one complaint after this.

What are you, stupid? This is exactly the problem, people assume fundamental issues with the voting process are partisan political issues and they treat them as such. Republicans are of course fine with ANY system where Republicans win, and an equally large number of Dems are only unhappy with the system because they aren't winning. Neither side really cares about having a fair system, it's all about winning...and that goes double for people like you who pretend it's only a problem with one party or the other.

The only people crying Diebold are the sore losers still displaying Kerry bumper stickers.

Please give back the air you steal everyday

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: Krakn3Dfx

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: wiin
There is only one way to end all the complaints. Let the democrats win the election. In fact don't even hold election. just tell the democrats that they get to ruin the country. You will never hear one complaint after this.

What are you, stupid? This is exactly the problem, people assume fundamental issues with the voting process are partisan political issues and they treat them as such. Republicans are of course fine with ANY system where Republicans win, and an equally large number of Dems are only unhappy with the system because they aren't winning. Neither side really cares about having a fair system, it's all about winning...and that goes double for people like you who pretend it's only a problem with one party or the other.

The only people crying Diebold are the sore losers still displaying Kerry bumper stickers.

Uhhhh...moron.

It's not about DEMs or GOPs, it's about a fair voting system with a reasonable chance of votes being counted. Just because the criminals are on your side doesn't mean you shouldn't be concerned about the dwindling democracy of our nation. You sir, are an ignorant ass.

Criminals? Lol! :laugh:

Just because someone duped you doesn't make it so.

 

[GeekDrew]

If you're pissed off about the voting equipment that is in use, blame the state government, not DESI. If they wanted paper trails, they would have them. Case in point: Ohio. The system is verifiably accurate if there is a paper trail -- even if something were to be cracked, it would be detected in a recount. If any machine failed a recount, then there would be a LOT of red flags thrown up, all over the place.

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
The flaws in these machines are so blatant that it's as if they were designed specifically to permit fraud on a grand scale. The people responsible for this shouldn't just go to jail, they should be put up in front of a firing squad.

Not so much as they were designed in the mid-90s, when security was more of an afterthought to many companies (in particular, the government) than a chief concern.

Originally posted by: babylon5
Stealing whatever is left of our little democracy in good old USA is rather easy these days with these machines.

Blame the state government for not ordering paper trails. They were available. DESI did what any company would -- gave the customer what they wanted, and the government had ample chance to review any and all parts of the system before ordering it for any states.

Originally posted by: tweaker2
ask yourselves this: why would anyone abandon common sense and logic to choose to use voting machines that are not only easily hackable by design, they are also built in such a way by design as to make verifying its results impossible?

It's all about the paper trail. Blame the state government. DESI had it, but if the government didn't want it, there wasn't much they could do about that. It's easy to verify results that way.

Originally posted by: tweaker2
what really scares me is that diebold et al is refusing to correct these glaring deficiencies despite the fact that it's common knowledge that they built these machines to be easily hackable and unverifiable by design. they want to use them anyway. why? and who's letting them get away with it? i have to assume that diebold, et al know that the average citizen is powerless when it comes to trying to force them to clean up their act.

Glaring deficiencies? The state knew they were there before they bought them. Blame the state. The state is letting them get away with it. No, I'll rephrase -- the state is almost demanding it. I've not had first-hand experience with elections outside the state of Ohio, but I do have contacts in various states -- some states outright refused the paper trail option, even though it was offered to them.

Originally posted by: tweaker2
it's plainly obvious that the guys at the top decided that it's a whole lot easier and cheaper to make me vote in their favor after i've voted rather than before.

You're full of crap.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: wiin
There is only one way to end all the complaints. Let the democrats win the election. In fact don't even hold election. just tell the democrats that they get to ruin the country. You will never hear one complaint after this.

What are you, stupid? This is exactly the problem, people assume fundamental issues with the voting process are partisan political issues and they treat them as such. Republicans are of course fine with ANY system where Republicans win, and an equally large number of Dems are only unhappy with the system because they aren't winning. Neither side really cares about having a fair system, it's all about winning...and that goes double for people like you who pretend it's only a problem with one party or the other.

The only people crying Diebold are the sore losers still displaying Kerry bumper stickers.

Uh, that was my point. You don't see a single Republican who has a problem with the current voting machines...because Bush won. They don't care about any potential fairness or fraud issues as long as their candidate wins. While the Dems only care because their candidate lost.

I know it's hard for people like you to grasp, but this is one of those issues that should be beyond politics. It's in ALL our interests for our voting system to be fair and verifiable. You guys don't give a damn because you're on top, but if there IS a problem, I guarantee you'll feel it eventually.

 

[trenchfoot]

Blame the state government

It's all about the paper trail. Blame the state government.

Glaring deficiencies? The state knew they were there before they bought them. Blame the state.

is it so difficult for you to make a connection between state governments and their close ties with the federal gov't i.e.- jeb and dubyuh bush?

is it so difficult for you to realize that there is an obvious and tight relationship between state and national party affiliations so as to make them march in lock-step and win the highest offices in the federal gov't?

yeah, there are decisions made at the state and municipal levels, but which voting machines to use is quite easily a call that can discreetly come down from national party headquarters, or higher. in this regard, you make yourself sound rather naive. if you know as fact that they aren't please provide irrefutable proof to help me change my mind.

You're full of crap

well, yeah, you're right, but only twice a day.

and, judging from your colorful and fragrant verbal gesticulations, it seems you're way overdue for an ammonia enema yourself.

 

[trenchfoot]

but this is one of those issues that should be beyond politics. It's in ALL our interests for our voting system to be fair and verifiable.

QFT :thumbsup:

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: Rainsford
Uh, that was my point. You don't see a single Republican who has a problem with the current voting machines...because Bush won. They don't care about any potential fairness or fraud issues as long as their candidate wins. While the Dems only care because their candidate lost.

I know it's hard for people like you to grasp, but this is one of those issues that should be beyond politics. It's in ALL our interests for our voting system to be fair and verifiable. You guys don't give a damn because you're on top, but if there IS a problem, I guarantee you'll feel it eventually.

I dunno, but if I was the loser of 3 straight elections I'd sit down and take a look at what's wrong with me and my policy first instead of pointing fingers.

 

[wiin]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: wiin
There is only one way to end all the complaints. Let the democrats win the election. In fact don't even hold election. just tell the democrats that they get to ruin the country. You will never hear one complaint after this.

What are you, stupid? This is exactly the problem, people assume fundamental issues with the voting process are partisan political issues and they treat them as such. Republicans are of course fine with ANY system where Republicans win, and an equally large number of Dems are only unhappy with the system because they aren't winning. Neither side really cares about having a fair system, it's all about winning...and that goes double for people like you who pretend it's only a problem with one party or the other.

To my recollection, there was no complaint about election fraud, disenfrahisement of voters, hanging chad or that the electoral college system is unfair from the republican party when democrats were winning the election.

 

[PottedMeat]

Originally posted by: wiin

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: wiin
There is only one way to end all the complaints. Let the democrats win the election. In fact don't even hold election. just tell the democrats that they get to ruin the country. You will never hear one complaint after this.

What are you, stupid? This is exactly the problem, people assume fundamental issues with the voting process are partisan political issues and they treat them as such. Republicans are of course fine with ANY system where Republicans win, and an equally large number of Dems are only unhappy with the system because they aren't winning. Neither side really cares about having a fair system, it's all about winning...and that goes double for people like you who pretend it's only a problem with one party or the other.

To my recollection, there was no complaint about election fraud, disenfrahisement of voters, hanging chad or that the electoral college system is unfair from the republican party when democrats were winning the election.

Did you just prove his point?

 

[shadow9d9]

Just remember not to feed Zentroll : ). He doesn't care about fraud, corruption, etc, as long as his group is on top.