Here's another view. Karl Rove was right.

[Fern]

Originally posted by: techs
snip-
..the GOP is not in as much trouble as they should have been.

Just looking at the election a different way.
What do ya think?

I think you're right (I'm happy to agree with you for a change )

I don't think the GOP is as bad off as many here seem to slobber about.

But often after an election where one side or the other wins a majority we see numerous articles/OpEd's overly dramatizing about how the losing party is now *dead*. This is more of the same old-same old crap.

As poorly as McCain ran his campiagn, and given the other factors you mention above, the loss wan't all that bad. IMO, the charasmatic guy won over the uninspiring guy; I see no surprise there.

I don't think the GOP even needs to change much. Some here advocate dropping the RR etc, claiming that things such as opposition to gay marriage means the party is dead. Ha, hardly - not even CA the most liberal state is for it. Neither is the majority of the country. But I do get a kick out of libs trying to counsel the Repubs on improving their party.

Meh, things go in cycles. Seems the Presidency (and other offices) are swapped back-n-forth; I see no reason that will ever stop.

Fern

 

[Ozoned]

Lyndon Johnson promised to lift millions of americans out of poverty, and delivered.

The poor, minorities, the young have false hopes that the dems will deliver this for them. That is the only way the dems ever win, by scraping the bottom of the barrel, by exploiting the unfortunate in society. That is there base.

 

[First]

Originally posted by: Ozoned
Lyndon Johnson promised to lift millions of americans out of poverty, and delivered.

The poor, minorities, the young have false hopes that the dems will deliver this for them. That is the only way the dems ever win, by scraping the bottom of the barrel, by exploiting the unfortunate in society. That is there base.

Except the statistics say Dems actually do more for the poor financially, while backwards rednecks like yourself hoard money they didn't earn from mommy and daddy. Thankfully your unearned cash will go to more deserving people via taxes.

:laugh:

 

[RocksteadyDotNet]

Fuck Karl Rove.

 

[Blackjack200]

Originally posted by: Skitzer

Originally posted by: Skoorb
It's true, obama should have won by more, but a lot of people are just idiots.

Man you are so funny!! I love reading your posts ...... they're always good for a laugh.
Your hatred of anything/anyone to the right of center is astoundingly stupid.
You do realize that you just called almost half the population of the US idiots?

You're right. It's much more than that. Anyone that voted for Obama and Prop 8 (or gay bashing ballot questions in any other state) is also an idiot. That takes the figure to well over half, I would guess.

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: Evan

Originally posted by: Ozoned
Lyndon Johnson promised to lift millions of americans out of poverty, and delivered.

The poor, minorities, the young have false hopes that the dems will deliver this for them. That is the only way the dems ever win, by scraping the bottom of the barrel, by exploiting the unfortunate in society. That is there base.

Except the statistics say Dems actually do more for the poor financially, while backwards rednecks like yourself hoard money they didn't earn from mommy and daddy. Thankfully your unearned cash will go to more deserving people via taxes.

:laugh:

I am taking everything I have out of the economy. Going to go all low yielding treasury or munincipal bonds. Currently, my hobby investments, that employ a lot of poor people, at best, break even. I will not continue them at a loss. You will need to go somewhere else and make sandwiches, because your ass is fired. There is no longer an incentive for me to keep you around.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: Ocguy31
It would have been closer without the meltdown, but Obama would have still won due to Iraq.

Iraq??? Who voted on the Iraq issue???

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: jonks
someone is messing with wikipedia...rove maybe?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U...dential_election,_2004
Popular vote
Bush 101,040,610
Kerry 98,028,444

That's some big turnout!

Dayum. I wonder how long it will take for them to fix it.

I fixed it once myself Wed.

Someone took 20 million votes from both of them, guess they were upset that Obama and Bush's totals were so close.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: Ocguy31
It would have been closer without the meltdown, but Obama would have still won due to Iraq.

Iraq??? Who voted on the Iraq issue???

Why do you think Bush is unpopular?


Bush wins presidency with FL/SCOTUS controversy ----- Not very popular

9/11 ----- Country rallies around Bush, all partisan BS stops

Afghanistan ----- Has great public support for removing the Taliban government from power

Iraq ------ People buy into the WMDs, etc ----- Not very popular, but still gets re-elected

2004 election - No WMDs turn up yet, but people still like Bush more than Kerry

2005 and beyond --- The public makes a huge turn against Iraq and related scandles (waterboarding, Blackwater, etc)

2008 Financial meltdown- Just one more turd in the Bush punch-bowl.

Throw in some Katrina, and there you go. (Blacks werent going to vote for him anyway, so I dont think Katrina matters all that much)

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: HomerJS
The GOP has too many people like in Alaska who voted for a convicted felon.

How about the people in Louisiana who voted for Jefferson?

Or the people in DC who voted for Marion Barry?

Or the people in FL who vote for Alcee Hastings?

All Democrats....

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Sadly unless we can stop the vile ant-American propaganda machine from Rove, Rush, Hannity, the religious and the resident Republicans we will be right back to 2001 all over again.

Why don't we start with stopping the propaganda from you?

 

[Infohawk]

The Republicans were and are fine. The economy would have worked against the Democrats if they were in power.

The Democrats need to keep this in mind if they want to try push far-left policy like amnesty for illegals or increasing affirmative action.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: jonks
someone is messing with wikipedia...rove maybe?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U...dential_election,_2004
Popular vote
Bush 101,040,610
Kerry 98,028,444

That's some big turnout!

Dayum. I wonder how long it will take for them to fix it.

I fixed it once myself Wed.

Someone took 20 million votes from both of them, guess they were upset that Obama and Bush's totals were so close.

Give it up, seriously. Obama's vote total beat Bush by more than Bush beat Kerry, and he beat McCain by 2.5 times that margin. I hate to sound like Republicans after 2004, but Obama won a pretty major victory here...get over it.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Infohawk
The Republicans were and are fine. The economy would have worked against the Democrats if they were in power.

The Democrats need to keep this in mind if they want to try push far-left policy like amnesty for illegals or increasing affirmative action.

I doubt it. Economic problems work for Democrats the same way national security problems work for Republicans. The measured, diplomatic approach to national security just doesn't make people feel safe the same way the aggressive policies of the Republicans do during a national security crisis. President Gore would have been beaten quite badly in 2004 if 9/11 had still happened. Similarly, Republicans talking about trickle down economics while the middle class feels the crunch and rich folks get golden parachutes after driving their companies in the ground just doesn't sit very well with many Americans, which is why I'm not sure having President Kerry instead of President Bush these last 4 years would have changed the election substantially. Linking McCain to Bush was a clever idea, but I don't think it was all that effective.

 

[Jhhnn]

I love how quick the Righties are to identify the financial lockup and stock market decline as the reason for their defeat in 2008.

That's hogwash- they were already snakebit.

Both of those are the result of a correction to hyper extension of credit, particularly wrt housing. That's what's killing repubs, because that's where it really hits people. What's a middle class family's biggest expense? Housing. What's their biggest asset? figure it out.

Add in Iraq and all of the other failings of the Bushistas to round out the picture- pick your issue- somebody voted against repubs because of it... stagnant wages. energy costs. gitmo. fisa. Plame. deficits. Katrina. On and on.

It all adds up.

And Race is still a factor. Denial of that is absurd, given the distribution of votes across all lines. Yes, Obama overcame it, but i suspect his margin would have been much larger had he been white...

And it's not so much that the McCain campaign was poorly run, it's just that they had to run away from the sitting president of their own party, away from repub policy and achievements in general, and away from themselves to no small extent. It wasn't the negative campaigning that did them in, it was the lack of anything positive to go with it...

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
I love how quick the Righties are to identify the financial lockup and stock market decline as the reason for their defeat in 2008.

That's hogwash- they were already snakebit.

Both of those are the result of a correction to hyper extension of credit, particularly wrt housing. That's what's killing repubs, because that's where it really hits people. What's a middle class family's biggest expense? Housing. What's their biggest asset? figure it out.

Add in Iraq and all of the other failings of the Bushistas to round out the picture- pick your issue- somebody voted against repubs because of it... stagnant wages. energy costs. gitmo. fisa. Plame. deficits. Katrina. On and on.

It all adds up.

And Race is still a factor. Denial of that is absurd, given the distribution of votes across all lines. Yes, Obama overcame it, but i suspect his margin would have been much larger had he been white...

And it's not so much that the McCain campaign was poorly run, it's just that they had to run away from the sitting president of their own party, away from repub policy and achievements in general, and away from themselves to no small extent. It wasn't the negative campaigning that did them in, it was the lack of anything positive to go with it...

The mistake would be thinking that 2008 was a unique problem for modern Republicans. It wasn't...it was 2004 without the threat of certain terrorist attack on your family if you voted "wrong". The current crop of Republicans just aren't positive campaigners, and lacking a good negative story to draw in voters (although not from lack of trying), they just couldn't pull it off.

 

[seemingly random]

Originally posted by: techs
Lost in the whole GOP meltdown and debate about the future of the party, is the scary fact that maybe Karl Rove was right.
Think about the losses the Republicans had this year. They barely lost a few of the Senate races. With a little luck the Dems might have only picked up say 2-3 seats. That would have been fantastic considering the economic meltdown, the record low Bush/Republican approval ratings.
And McCain was actually ahead, right up til the economic meltdown and the Palin pick.

In what should have been a Lyndon Johnson type landslide the Dems only got a solid win.
Barely 5 percent of the electorate decided the election for Obama.
...

This is just depressing. Thanks.

 

[seemingly random]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Sadly unless we can stop the vile ant-American propaganda machine from Rove, Rush, Hannity, the religious and the resident Republicans we will be right back to 2001 all over again.

Why don't we start with stopping the propaganda from you?

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

The ironing. Thanks for the comic relief.