here is what you will be fined (TAXED) for not having health insurance

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MooseNSquirrel

Platinum Member
Feb 26, 2009
2,587
318
126
Please point to a line in the Constitution where the power to provide health care to citizens is explicitly enumerated and granted to the federal government.

Yeah, I didn't think so.....

I believe one must make the case that it is unconstitutional, not the other way around.
 

Khato

Golden Member
Jul 15, 2001
1,202
240
106
Where are hospitals getting paid from for treating patients without insurance once this goes into effect. Or is this all ignored?

They'll get paid for treating the uninsured from the exact same place they currently are - the government. Any hospital operating an emergency room is required to care for anyone that comes in under the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act of 1986 - doesn't matter whether they have insurance or not. The uninsured rarely pay for the treatment, even if they're quite capable of doing so... which means hospitals have to pass on some amount of the cost to the insured patients while the rest goes to the government in order to maintain the public service. Last I checked, over half of hospital emergency room costs are for the uninsured that don't pay.

So yeah, this really is doing nothing more than making the uninsured pay a greater share of the costs they incur upon everyone. It's not going to solve the problem of over-priced medical care though - that'd require forcing the medical training field to expand in order to have an adequate number of medical professionals available.
 

Charles Kozierok

Elite Member
May 14, 2012
6,762
1
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That it is. I hope I'm wrong and it works out for the best.

The bigger point is that the constitutionality ship sailed a long, long time ago. Free medical care has been the law for over a quarter century. And it is the law because most Americans don't want to live in a country where people are left to die because they can't afford medical care.

The ACA is actually trying to *combat* healthcare freeloading, so getting upset over that while ignoring that we already have free healthcare is either partisanship or just missing the point.

Right-wingers can rage against Obama if they want, but he's not the president who signed EMTALA. That was Saint Ronnie.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,669
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The bigger point is that the constitutionality ship sailed a long, long time ago. Free medical care has been the law for over a quarter century. And it is the law because most Americans don't want to live in a country where people are left to die because they can't afford medical care.

Actually isnt that exactly what liberals say Republicans want?

The ACA is actually trying to *combat* healthcare freeloading, so getting upset over that while ignoring that we already have free healthcare is either partisanship or just missing the point.

How is having the government pay for people's healthcare "combating" freeloading?
 

nanette1985

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 2005
4,209
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<--- I just converted to being an Amish. How do I get out of social security tax? I suppose there is a form to file.

My exended family is Mennonite. Yes, there is a form to file. You get the form from whichever relative is the head of the family.The elders get together to work out community issues. Welcome to the fold. I qualified for Disability back when I was 10 for my rheumatiod arthritis (which I still have) but we never accepted any government money I also never saw a MD - just the local healer - which didn't help - I was in intense pain until narcotics decades later (Yay narcotics. The Mennonite way is to be self-sufficient and pay all things like medical bills within the community. That's why Mennonites don't pay social security it's gambling(immoral), like other kinds of insurance.
 

WackyDan

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2004
4,794
68
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So who here is going to be paying this tax by 2016? In other words, how many people are choosing to be uninsured now and through 2016?

Depends on whether the CBO estimates are accurate as they depict between 7 million to 20 million Americans losing their employer provided health insurance due to the ACA when their employers decide it is cheaper to pay the employer penalty for not providing coverage.
 

WackyDan

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2004
4,794
68
91
Yes, it is awesome. It's about time that something was done about people who refuse to take responsibility for their health care and make others pay for it when they run into trouble.

I thought conservatives believed in personal responsibility? Oh wait, that doesn't apply when a bill passed by Democrats is involved. Just as fiscal responsibility went out the window in the George W. Bush era, and suddenly became fashionable again in late 2008 when a Democrat won the White House.

So personal responsibility.. How do you apply that to the current Medicaid recipients who are welfare lifers and the 32 million that are about to added to Medicaid at no cost out of their pocket?

Nice try.
 

WackyDan

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2004
4,794
68
91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atreus21 View Post
You know, looking at Dave's posts has made me wonder:

Where's Craig? Ain't seen him in awhile.
Perhaps he makes enough to afford a real vacation?

He probably found another forum to troll. If you dig deep enough he uses the same or similar nick on multiple boards and basically regurgitates the same shit he posts here everywhere else.... Serial poster.
 

MrColin

Platinum Member
May 21, 2003
2,403
3
81
If the ACA did not ultimately fuck over the general population in favor of existing corporations' profits, the Republicans would never have allowed it through the senate.
 

IndyColtsFan

Lifer
Sep 22, 2007
33,656
687
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Not based on commerce clause precedent.

The paraphrased quote I mentioned was more or less taken from the Constitution. It's called the 10th amendment and has repeatedly been trampled on by the USSC:

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

You mentioning the commerce clause is irrelevant to my point. I KNOW how the commerce clause has been used and twisted to make ridiculous precedents. It is wrong.

Which Roberts conveniently avoided by declaring the ACA a tax.

That was actually the one part Roberts got right.
 
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Charles Kozierok

Elite Member
May 14, 2012
6,762
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So personal responsibility.. How do you apply that to the current Medicaid recipients who are welfare lifers and the 32 million that are about to added to Medicaid at no cost out of their pocket?

Again, we've been paying for them all along by letting them show up at hospitals for free care.

The people who are complaining about Obamacare should have been directing their attention to Reagancare, which has been around for 25+ years.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,669
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Again, we've been paying for them all along by letting them show up at hospitals for free care.

The people who are complaining about Obamacare should have been directing their attention to Reagancare, which has been around for 25+ years.

So we have been paying for them. And will continue to pay for them.

How exactly is this combating freeloading again?
 

1prophet

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
5,313
534
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I don't really understand the incredible volume of complaints the individual mandate has generated, to be perfectly honest. Is there some huge population of people out there who CHOOSE not to get health care even though it's available and who feel being required to get it is an unfair burden? Basically anything beyond extremely basic medical care is insanely expensive in this country...are people just gambling that they won't need medical care? Sure, healthy habits can help...but you never know what's going to happen in the future.

Or is the problem more about the principle of the thing than any actual impact? I'm honestly not quite understanding why some people are going so apeshit over the individual mandate. Nobody likes to be told they HAVE to do something. But to my way of thinking, it's mandating something you PROBABLY should have been doing in the first place.


The reason most people don't have health insurance is because of the cost, not because they don't want it.

A decent plan with low deductibles and good coverage can cost many thousands per year just for an individual.

Now go ask the average person what the difference is between a PPO, HMO, Indemnity plan yet somehow you expect them to go get insurance that is right for them.



Indemnity the cheapest
Indemnity plan may be right for you if:
  • You want the greatest level of freedom possible in choosing which doctors or hospitals to visit
  • You don't mind coordinating the billing and reimbursement of your claims yourself(have fun with this part)



PPO may be right for you if:
  • Your favorite doctor already participates in the PPO (use our Doctor Finder tool to find out)
  • You want some freedom to direct your own health care but don't mind working within a list of preferred providers

An EPO is a Exclusive Provider Organization. As a member of an EPO, you can use the doctors and hospitals within the EPO network, but cannot go outside of the network for care. There are no out-of-network benefits.


HMO may be right for you if:

  • You're willing to play by the rules and coordinate your care through a primary care physician
  • You're looking for comprehensive benefits at a reasonable monthly premium
  • You value preventive care services: coverage for checkups, immunizations and similar services are often emphasized by HMOs
Some of the different plans available , I put in zip code 11716 and 90714, put in your own to see rates in different parts of the country, pay attention to the deductibles (remember most lower income people live paycheck to paycheck) and pay attention to the details of the plan.
http://www.ehealthinsurance.com/ehi/ifp/all-plans?sortOption=PRICE





What I find most ironic is how the Republicans are considered mean and cruel for going after welfare recipients, lower middle classes, illegals, etc.when they promote their personal responsibility and bad choices mantra,

yet the Democrats have acted just the same by pushing a tax on those lower middle class because of supposed personal responsibility and bad choice in not getting health insurance.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,967
19
81
Wow, that is cheap. I pay nearly $6,000 through my employer comes out of my paycheck for UnitedHealthcare with same co-pays but first $2,500 is out of pocket.

What Insurance Co is that?

Cigna. Keep in mind that group coverage is not always a good thing.

When I was with Blue Cross/Blue Shield it was cheaper to go solo coverage at 30 even though my employer used BCBS for their group plan.

We had 7 employees, all were older than me.

They actually got pissed I didn't sign up (it would have lowered their rates slightly).
 

nextJin

Golden Member
Apr 16, 2009
1,848
0
0
Yea military pay usually sucks at first but later on it is actually fairly competitive with enlisted folks. I would need a job making around 85,000 a year to even out with my current pay/benefits. Probably more with my SDP and BAS but I have not used the conversion tool in a long while.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,967
19
81
Yea military pay usually sucks at first but later on it is actually fairly competitive with enlisted folks. I would need a job making around 85,000 a year to even out with my current pay/benefits. Probably more with my SDP and BAS but I have not used the conversion tool in a long while.

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