And this is a counterpoint... how? I agreed with you on this, the only difference is that I said that I don't know if any planet killers will hit us ... I have no doubt they're out there. I said that -- you said that. Seriously, are you reading my reply or trying to disagree with everything I say? So what? The point is that we agree it's orderly -- which is the entire crux of my argument. The source of that "order" is what we differ on. You say it came from disorder, I disagree. I can't reconcile order coming from disorder. It doesn't makes sence. I don't use God to "fill in the blanks". I've always believed that God created us and the universe. This wasn't something I invoked to explain what I can't explain. I apply common sence to stuff like this sometimes. I come home from work, I see a clean home, nice dinner, closet organized (yes, my wife is VERY GOOD at stuff like this), and I automatically know she did it. Not because she's there... but becasue I know someone had to do it. If I left my home in chaos before leaving for work, if she doesn't organize it, it won't be organized when I get home. I will read more into that. true, but we end up at stalemates becasue you guys tend to lump religion in with religion, which simply is asinine. Islam doesn't define religion or all religious people. Not anywhere near. Religous people are biologists, computer programmers, chemist... etc and believe in an Intelligent Designer. It's not like scientists can't have a religion and visa-versa. well, I asked someone in another thread (don't remember who) about why did we evolve (as a rebuttal to a question about why God causes ABC or whatever), and all he said was "**** happens, science is only concerned with hows". I just took his word for it, but now I see it's misinformation.