Here Is What Louisiana Schoolchildren Learn About Evolution

Discussion in 'Politics and News' started by tydas, Nov 20, 2012.

  1. Retro Rob

    Retro Rob Diamond Member

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    And this is a counterpoint... how?

    I agreed with you on this, the only difference is that I said that I don't know if any planet killers will hit us ... I have no doubt they're out there. I said that -- you said that.

    Seriously, are you reading my reply or trying to disagree with everything I say?


    So what? The point is that we agree it's orderly -- which is the entire crux of my argument. The source of that "order" is what we differ on. You say it came from disorder, I disagree.

    I can't reconcile order coming from disorder. It doesn't makes sence.


    I don't use God to "fill in the blanks". I've always believed that God created us and the universe. This wasn't something I invoked to explain what I can't explain.

    I apply common sence to stuff like this sometimes. I come home from work, I see a clean home, nice dinner, closet organized (yes, my wife is VERY GOOD at stuff like this), and I automatically know she did it. Not because she's there... but becasue I know someone had to do it. If I left my home in chaos before leaving for work, if she doesn't organize it, it won't be organized when I get home.



    I will read more into that.





    true, but we end up at stalemates becasue you guys tend to lump religion in with religion, which simply is asinine.

    Islam doesn't define religion or all religious people. Not anywhere near. Religous people are biologists, computer programmers, chemist... etc and believe in an Intelligent Designer.

    It's not like scientists can't have a religion and visa-versa.


    well, I asked someone in another thread (don't remember who) about why did we evolve (as a rebuttal to a question about why God causes ABC or whatever), and all he said was "**** happens, science is only concerned with hows".

    I just took his word for it, but now I see it's misinformation.
     
    #551 Retro Rob, Nov 24, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2012
  2. Darwin333

    Darwin333 Lifer

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    About God's will.....


    I have actually read the bible, cover to cover, multiple times. I admit that I had to go look up Genesis chapter 3 as I have obviously not memorized it but lets discuss it. In particular, I would like to discuss this:


    Do you agree with that? Do you agree that a wife is quite literally owned and ruled by her husband? That she must do as he commands? Do you agree that a wife has no free will because she is ruled, as sayeth the Lord, by her husband?


    I can go a lot further than that but for the time, and I do hope you are currently watching the video that I posted, we can stick with the above.
     
  3. Retro Rob

    Retro Rob Diamond Member

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    ... sure, if you're seriouly interested.... but not in this thread. Way off topic.

    You can PM me... if you want.
     
  4. randomrogue

    randomrogue Diamond Member

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    I don't understand how someone like RobM can be dense, ignorant, unintelligent, and uneducated. How can you possibly get so unlucky as to be dealt that hand? Were you left in the woods and raised by wolves?

    Seriously you're making a complete fool out of yourself. I really hope you haven't used your own name anywhere since if I was your employer and found this you'd be out a job. I wouldn't trust you to make any kind of intelligent decision.

    What you're written in this thread is embarrassing. You should be ashamed of yourself.
     
  5. Retro Rob

    Retro Rob Diamond Member

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    Darwin,

    The Bible isn't a book that you read from cover to cover and close while expecting to understand it.

    It covers a really long time and doesn't give you every bit of information on every subject.

    THere are other scriptures covering the husband/wife arrangement to help you come to a better conclusion than the one you're coming to.

    Use others to compare, then draw your own conclusion....
     
    #555 Retro Rob, Nov 24, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2012
  6. Retro Rob

    Retro Rob Diamond Member

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    I ain't gonna lie, I even has a little giggle at this...:)
     
  7. Darwin333

    Darwin333 Lifer

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    MY point is very simple, what kind of "orderly system" would have such things if created by an intelligent designer? Why would he purposely introduce such flaws as something that could potentially wipe out parts or our entire planet with (up until now) not even a chance of warning?

    Not at all, I apologize if my point wasn't as clear as it could have been.

    Order can and does come from disorder. Before there were even planets it was just a cloud of gas that started clumping together. It was all very disorderly while it clumped together and started to form mini planets, some of which did "run into" each other to form larger bodies. The most current theory on our very own moon says that something HUGE (as in planet huge) impacted us and the moon "broke off". The ununiform distribution of matter throughout the universe, the fact that eventually our galaxy will collide with Andromeda, the fact that our sun has solar flares at all. That is a very disorderly system which is almost impossible for us to predict in any real way. An orderly system should be easy to predict yet we have no idea when the next hurricane, earthquake, tornado, solar flare, meteor strike, etc... will happen. That goes against the very nature of an "orderly" system does it not?
    Ah but it is. You did so in this very post when you said "I can't reconcile order coming from disorder. It doesn't makes sence."

    You implied that god must have made it just so because you can't make sense of it. You reached the limit of your own knowledge and basically said "since I can't figure it out it must be god".


    Of course, we have used the same "common sense" for all of recorded history. Since the sun rose today it MUST because of Zeus rode across the sky and his chariot turned night into day. There was simply no other explanation that made "sense" to anyone but it sure didn't make them right. I guess that is my point, one needs to have an open mind and I do not believe that you do. You flatly reject all of which goes against what you were taught from a centuries old book written by man.

    Pretty interesting read. I originally learned of it because one of my favorite people, Nikola Tesla, was rumored to be responsible for it with his "death ray". Tesla was one of the most brilliant people of the modern world but is sadly overlooked in the history books.

    We do that because we see similarities. You literally can not have modern biology and medicine without evolution. If what you believed was what the majority of the world believed we would have lost so much progress that its unimaginable. Even worse is, how much progress did we lose that we can never regain because someone kept such a closed mind such as yours? Islam did basically what you are doing, they stuck their fingers in their ears and screamed "na na na na" to any and all rationale thoughts and ideas because it went against what their religion taught them. I have no issue with your religion at all.

    Consider this, if you have a child and convince him to believe as you do that he will never have the opportunity to become a medical doctor. Why? Because he won't be able to pass biology 101. Consider if he truly had one of the great minds but was never able to develop it because he was taught that the world works in a way that it does not. Consider even further, do you truly think that you would believe what you currently do if you were born in Asia or the middle east? Of course you wouldn't, and the reason for that is you were taught from a very young age to have the faith you do. Let that roll around in your head for a bit, this is true for almost every single religious person on the earth (there are few exceptions and if you are one I apologize), they did not "gain" faith they were quite literally taught to have faith from a very young age. Such a thing is trivially easy to do when dealing with children.

    I do not wish to argue that your faith is wrong, nor do I wish to argue that the majority of the people on this Earth whose faith differs from yours is wrong, I simply wish that you and people like you would stop making mistakes that have historically had catastrophic impacts to the "faith" that made them.

    They absolutely can as long as they actually trust in and use the scientific method, something that you have so far refused to do.

    We evolve for various reasons. It is NOT and never has been because "shit happens". If you truly want an answer to that question I will be happy to provide it, or at least our current understanding of it.
     
    #557 Darwin333, Nov 24, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2012
  8. Darwin333

    Darwin333 Lifer

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    Is the passage I quoted not the word of God?
     
  9. stormkroe

    stormkroe Golden Member

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    BOOM $30.00

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  10. Retro Rob

    Retro Rob Diamond Member

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    I don't know... and am not afraid to say that. Since we're still here and the earth hasn't been detroyed, I figure that those flaws aren't really flaws. . especially seeing how we have a couple of natual "vaccums" out there to take care of the big stuff.

    Before we had modern man-made warning systems (telescopes etc) this earth hasn't been hit with a planet destroyer (note: one that would destroy the planet as a whole.. not just the life on it) I guess it's working fine for now.


    As far as the universe coming to be is concerned, we will just have to move on from that. We have two separate... shall I say "conclusions".


    As far as the earthqukes etc, I will have to look more into and present you with what I find. I can't answer that off he top.

    No, I didn't.

    Let me give you an example. Take a traffic light. It's timed to change at certain timed intervals and even cease to operate (depending on the time of night and location in my city anyway). In other words, it's there for a purpose,.. to regulate traffic, and functions as such.

    I KNOW someone made that without having to be told, or seeing a crew installing it.

    I looked into the sky as a young boy, marveled at what I saw, and naturally concluded "gee, that's nice.... I wonder who made that". All the stars and stuff peaked my interest.


    Granted, I didn't know about the Big Bang then, but I just didn't think that stuff wasn't created by someone.

    I read about evolution as a youngster, and I honestly thought that it was the stupidest thing I heard was that we came from monkeys (depicted in many science text books at the time).

    Not believing in God has never been an option I considered. Never.



    This, and other experiences, attracted me to a designer.




    Ok, well, I can't change your view and won't try to.





    Ok man... I have a closed mind...:rolleyes:


    Speculation.

    Non-religious folks and Atheist make up a good part of the stupid poplulation, as well. If that's not the case, every non-religious/atheists person should be biologists, chemists, or any natual/evolutionary scienctists.

    The ignorant thing about what you're saying is that it's somehow a crime against humanity to raise your children in religious faith. Who are you to judge parents for doing that, or regulate what parents do with their kids?

    Like I've said before... you need to keep a balanced view with science. It aint the cure all for mankind's ills... especially seeing the amount of fear that's around to due nuclear capabilites because of evil scientists and murdering terrorists.

    The misuse of science and technology can kill more easily and more wide-spread than it could in any era nowadays.

    I don't think you can blame religion for that....
     
    #560 Retro Rob, Nov 24, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2012
  11. Retro Rob

    Retro Rob Diamond Member

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    You want to go off-topic about that, PM me...

    unless (as I am correctly suspecting) your whole point isn't to engage in mature discussion, but to bring something up that you and others can ridicule...:colbert:
     
  12. JD50

    JD50 Lifer

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    It's funny to watch creationists cherry pick which scientific facts they want to believe, then get all bent out of shape when others cherry pick certain parts of the bible.
     
  13. Retro Rob

    Retro Rob Diamond Member

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    So I'd say they're dead even....
     
  14. JD50

    JD50 Lifer

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    Nope.
     
  15. Darwin333

    Darwin333 Lifer

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    Outstanding!! A man of your word and you did some good for all mankind (at least in my humble opinion).

    You sir, are a good man. If you ever need anything that I can help with please do not hesitate to ask.
     
  16. Lonbjerg

    Lonbjerg Diamond Member

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    Thumbs up...an honest man...more than you can say about others in this thread...kudos!
     
  17. Retro Rob

    Retro Rob Diamond Member

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    I didn't expect you to address my post (particularly about stupid scientists) but you insinuate that I'm the dishonest.

    I've never known a person to create an underwear bomb using a bible and a religious doctrine, or a group of Christians meet in a church devising a way to introduce their new GBU (smart bomb) to a country they hate, or religionists purify unranium or create the "Manhattan Project".

    To deny this is to deny reality. As mention by Darwin, without evolution, we simply wouldn't have a nuclear age.

    I agree.
     
  18. Lonbjerg

    Lonbjerg Diamond Member

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    You never stop your dishonesty do you?
     
  19. randomrogue

    randomrogue Diamond Member

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    On the flip side I do know that Religion has been the cause of wars that lead to the death of 1%-2% of the world's population.

    That's the equivalent of a war today with 100,000,000 deaths.

    Religion has lead to so much pain and suffering and continues to do so. You really picked a stupid point to make since there is nothing that even comes close to the scale of the problems that religion has caused.
     
  20. Retro Rob

    Retro Rob Diamond Member

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    Not including the two World Wars, one of which claimed about 140,000,000? Those were not religious wars, though religion sure as heck participate.

    Edit: I meant to say 40,000,000. My bad
     
    #570 Retro Rob, Nov 25, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2012
  21. randomrogue

    randomrogue Diamond Member

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    I didn't even mention the world wars.
     
  22. Lonbjerg

    Lonbjerg Diamond Member

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    Hitler considered his war against USSR as a holy christan war against the russian barbarians...but then again...Rob M will either claim he didn't know facts (and continue to ignore them)...or he will lie...again, again, again.....he is all that i despise about religious muppets.
     
  23. alzan

    alzan Diamond Member

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    As well you need to keep a balanced view with religion. It's not the cure all for mankinds ills. And concerning nuclear weapons I'm actually a lot more worried about governmental officials in this country and others than I am about "evil" scientists and murdering terrorists.

    The misuse of religion and religious faith can indoctrinate more easily and more widespread than it could in previous eras.

    I don't think you can blame science for that...
     
    #573 alzan, Nov 25, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2012
  24. Retro Rob

    Retro Rob Diamond Member

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    Don't take my word for it. Look at the "Impacts" section. Some of this is debated, though.

    "Jupiter has been called the Solar System's vacuum cleaner,[114] because of its immense gravity well and location near the inner Solar System. It receives the most frequent comet impacts of the Solar System's planets"

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jupiter

    They indeed have changed. I didn't say I believe that NOW.. just the way it was presented to me then.

    I am not in the business to, again, tell parents how to teach their children, when to teach them, what to teach them, how to teach them... you are.

    It's YOUR OPINION that's it's a crime against the child... YOUR OPINION.

    Let me tell you this, Al... go and tell a religious parent that teaching their child their faith is more of a crime against the child and see how well that goes for you.

    It seems to me that you're assuming that all mature adults would NOT choose religion. I guess you're either blind or in utter denial if you believe any of that.

    If you're interested, I was raised in a religious home reading the Bible, and decided to leave when I became an adult becasue I really has no interest in it. It wasn't that I didn't agree with what I was learning (because I did), just wanted to do something else with my life.

    My home was peaceful, and when I saw the world in general and all the stupid and selfish people, I missed what I learned growing up. So I picked up where I left off as a child, been strong and better off ever since.

    When the Bible is read and properly applied, it has added a peace that I've never experienced without it.

    You can only blame misuse of science on the people misusing it, and the misuse of religion on the people misusing it. ;)
     
  25. techs

    techs Lifer

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    I think people are overly concerned about this.
    Its Louisiana. How many of them can actually read?