Here comes metered Broadband.......suck

13Gigatons

Diamond Member
Apr 19, 2005
7,461
500
126
http://blogs.att.net/consumerblog/story/a7801212

Today, our home Internet customers use just over 100 GB of data per month on average. So even with our smallest U-verse Internet data allowance of 300 GB the average customer has plenty of data to do more.


768 Kbps – 6 Mbps 300 GB 100 hours of HD video streaming
12 Mbps – 75Mbps 600 GB 240 hours of HD video streaming
100 Mbps – 1 Gbps 1 TB 400 hours of HD video streaming




1. Punish Cord Cutters
2. Stop streaming services
3. Slow 4K growth
 
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Miramonti

Lifer
Aug 26, 2000
28,653
100
106
If there's a good argument to sue isp's over over their data limits, I'm all in.
 

Imp

Lifer
Feb 8, 2000
18,828
184
106
Did anyone really think that the two or three companies that provide you cable and TV, usually on the same line, would let you cut one of their services without being compensated...
 
Nov 8, 2012
20,842
4,785
146
Netflix is our greatest ally at this point and time. Last I recall, they have to pay ISPs just to make sure they aren't throttling connections to them. Obviously if Netflix lags, the customer is going to likely blame Netflix (because they are too stupid to think of the ultimate source).

Sadly the demon I have to deal with is Comcast. Every 6-12 months I have to do a circle jerk with their reconciliation team to say "I'm not paying your obscene price, give me a reasonable price and I'll continue"... This time their best deal was $50 for Internet and basic cable....

And HOLY SHIT I've never seen something more worthless than basic cable on a cable box. You essentially get ~5% of the channels, which means half the time you're flipping through the other 95% saying "WHICH FUCKING CHANNELS DO I GET?!" God forbid you do something like only show channels that you do have... but noooo, you want us to flip to a channel we don't get and say "Hey! I don't get this channel... I'll just call ComCrap and pay another $20/month for this!"
 

13Gigatons

Diamond Member
Apr 19, 2005
7,461
500
126
The odd thing is how low the 1Gb service is, I mean it's ten times the speed of 75mb so the ceiling should be 6,000 GB at least. Otherwise what's the point of having a 1Gb line?
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
http://blogs.att.net/consumerblog/story/a7801212

Today, our home Internet customers use just over 100 GB of data per month on average. So even with our smallest U-verse Internet data allowance of 300 GB the average customer has plenty of data to do more.
U-verse Internet Speed Tiers2
New Data Allowance
What you can do with the data…
768 Kbps – 6 Mbps​
300 GB
100 hours of HD video streaming

12 Mbps – 75Mbps​
600 GB
240 hours of HD video streaming

100 Mbps – 1 Gbps​
1 TB
400 hours of HD video streaming​


1. Punish Cord Cutters
2. Stop streaming services
3. Slow 4K growth

U-verse always had bandwidth caps IIRC, but they were hardly ever enforced, especially if you also had U-verse TV. If you had both internet and TV, they literally cannot tell how much data you are using for internet versus TV, as it is an IPTV service. So it makes sense that they finally admit that combo subscribers will get unlimited data, because it would be very difficult for them to remotely try and enforce caps for those users.

Oh, and welcome to my world. Local monopoly cable company (same family owns the major local newspaper too, yay) has had caps for a few years now. Absolutely ridiculous, so much so that, as I am moving to a new place this summer, I'm actively searching for a good and affordable place outside of the city limits, where it is more likely to find Time Warner instead of our local provider. Now, I've had good service with our company (Buckeye Cablesystem), but I've heard many complaints too. So, I figure it won't be much different going to Time Warner. Every cable company is despised by most of its users, so not too concerned. But not only do they have no caps, they also have better rates on all services.

I was looking into U-verse a little, but after discovering they use IPTV for their "cable" solution, I've been discouraged. That equals no DIY DVR approach, as there is no CableCARD. Even though CableCARD is dying (oh I cannot wait until that's true... presuming there's a replacement in place before that day), at least I can create my own DVR system in house, and once HDHR DVR is finished, that will be awesome.

Tangent incoming... but I cannot stand all the bullshit about how further FCC regulation of the cable industry = going backwards, preventing competition and product/service evolution, etc etc... and is harmful to consumers. The Republican commissioners (why are these bastards even affiliated with parties? That's the worst part IMHO, but I digress, in my digression. lol)
Sure, while some operators are innovating, a little bit, making flashier rental boxes that can do more, and offering apps for Roku and other streaming platforms... they aren't the ones innovating, they are trying to remain relevant.
The whole-home DVR solutions? That was a novelty, very rare, and the major developer behind that push was Moxi, which was bought out by Arris. Moxi had partnered with a cable company, I think it was Cox, to have their hardware/platform as an option for subscribers. But they were one of, if not the chief developer in the whole-home DVR space, integrating a multi-client system with a central box. In fact, that's the exact solution my cable company uses. It's Arris branded, but it's the Moxi service and interface through and through. The only difference is now MoCA is incorporated into the devices instead of requiring an Ethernet infrastructure. I'm not complaining that it's based on Moxi... who is now defunct as a consumer-facing business, which is a pity but they had a hard time competing with Tivo, especially due to the expense of the equipment upfront, but that was offset thanks to zero subscription fees. Great interface. But I hate the combined box. Modem+Router+DVR = stability nightmare. Just a Modem+Router package is a nightmare IMHO, let alone adding anything else.

But Moxi introduced the idea, and Arris ran with it, and now everyone wants in on the act. Because of competition. And guess what spawned that competition? A third-party, direct to consumer entity. Not a cable company.

CableCARD is an ancient beast that needs to perish, but the idea was great. Take away absolute control over the consumer's devices, and let the regular industry develop new ideas. Surely operators will know how to draw inspiration and try to compete, they've been doing it all along. When Tivo was brand new, no cable company had a DVR solution. And then they did. Who is to thank for that? Oh wait, a third-party selling equipment to consumers.

I love the idea of a software-based approach. Frankly, the USA has been behind the entire time. Much of the world utilizes DVB standards as opposed to ATSC here in the States (oh, aren't we the lucky ones, forever shirking worldwide standards because we're unique little butterflies!). And while it's not the fault of ATSC as a standard, but we further took a shat on that by adding convoluted encryption and security standards that require, at this time, physical devices to decode before anything can access the streams. Why is this? Because American media absolutely hates the DVR and consumer rights, because it relinquishes their control of advertising. Oddly, the big brother states like the UK are still very pro-consumer rights when it comes to media. All you need is something like the HDHR to access whatever you have access to on your subscription. You don't need convoluted equipment.

And something that isn't even a function of the technical standards, like "accurate recording" and the other names by which it masquerades, could work here in the USA, but no, it doesn't fit in with the American model of media. Tired of recordings cutting off before the show finished, even when you added sufficient padding? Yeah, I guess that's not a thing in most of the world. Only here, where networks refuse to help consumers and instead would rather punish us for not watching everything live, where we are guaranteed to enjoy every single one of their commercials. Advertising is too big of a thing here for them to ever let us be truly happy.

Adding a software security standard, to replace the hardware standard, is at least a step in the right direction.

In spirit of today and Google's Gmail antics, I give you:

giphy.gif
 

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
25,134
2,450
126
600 GB isn't that much of a data cap, compared to Comcast's 300 GB cap for similar speeds.

I'm kinda lucky to have Frontier high speed access. Not only don't they have a download cap, but they just added Netflix support to their cable boxes. That's pretty damn cool, since when you watch it from the cable box it doesn't seem to impact download speeds for your Internet connection.
 

Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,420
1,600
126
tangent: does anyone actually like their u-verse for internet/tv? They are the only other internet provider in my area.
 

Sonikku

Lifer
Jun 23, 2005
15,908
4,940
136
Netflix is our greatest ally at this point and time. Last I recall, they have to pay ISPs just to make sure they aren't throttling connections to them. Obviously if Netflix lags, the customer is going to likely blame Netflix (because they are too stupid to think of the ultimate source).

Sadly the demon I have to deal with is Comcast. Every 6-12 months I have to do a circle jerk with their reconciliation team to say "I'm not paying your obscene price, give me a reasonable price and I'll continue"... This time their best deal was $50 for Internet and basic cable....

And HOLY SHIT I've never seen something more worthless than basic cable on a cable box. You essentially get ~5% of the channels, which means half the time you're flipping through the other 95% saying "WHICH FUCKING CHANNELS DO I GET?!" God forbid you do something like only show channels that you do have... but noooo, you want us to flip to a channel we don't get and say "Hey! I don't get this channel... I'll just call ComCrap and pay another $20/month for this!"

Netflix made a mistake by paying off the ISP's to not throttle the bandwidth their customers are already paying for. Instead of rolling over they should have drawn the line in the sand and appealed to the FCC. That they're now making pay offs to the telecoms gives them even more leverage, while simultaneously making them richer and raising netflix prices to the rest of us.
 

Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
9,549
1,130
126
The odd thing is how low the 1Gb service is, I mean it's ten times the speed of 75mb so the ceiling should be 6,000 GB at least. Otherwise what's the point of having a 1Gb line?

As someone who has Gigapower, I rarely hit half a TB in a month.

And this is a non-issue if you subscribe to TV service as does most of ATT uverse customers.
 
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Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
9,549
1,130
126
If there's a good argument to sue isp's over over their data limits, I'm all in.

People cannot have it both ways. You can't argue that cable/internet should be considered a utility, and not allow themselves to bill like all other utilities(metered service).

The more Congress and others push for cable to be regulated like other utilities, the more likely we will end up with truly metered service instead pseudo metered service via caps.

The days of truly unlimited bandwidth are going to be over sooner or later.
 

Ichinisan

Lifer
Oct 9, 2002
28,298
1,235
136
Arris/MOXI

Do your Arris gateways lock-up for no particular reason?

When ours do it, DHCP for LAN devices starts failing. Some devices that still have a DHCP lease might continue to function for a while, until the lease expires and it fails to renew.

The built-in router's interface becomes unresponsive.

Querying the gateway from Arris' portal ("CSR Tool" on the provider's end) shows an error message: "The device generated an error. Please contact your administrator." (I guess that's me)

Sometimes this seems to happen spontaneously, and sometimes it seems to be triggered by saving a change to settings. I've had it happen when saving a change that sets DHCP lease time to 3600 (1hr instead of default 1week). I've had it happen when saving a LAN DHCP reservation. I've had it lock-up when saving a port-forwarding rule. It seems almost any setting (except maybe WiFi SSID and PSK) could trigger a lock-up.

Sometimes, rebooting the gateway multiple times seems to work, but it usually does not. Factory resetting will work, but sometimes requires 2 or 3 attempts. Recently, I've been able to resolve them by doing this:
- Change the package between voice/non-voice
- Wait for reboot
- Wait for config file update and automatic reboot
- Switch back to original package
- Wait for reboot
- Wait for config file update and automatic reboot

Sometimes, it starts working while it's temporarily on the wrong package, and is then locked-up again when I get it back on the correct package, forcing me to repeat the whole process.

Multiple cases like this get escalated to me each day. One of our engineers has been working with Arris, but I get they impression they still don't have any clue what causes this after 1.5 years on the system.

Another thing I've noticed: A *lot* of these users have voice service and a *lot* of these customers have their own router or AP behind the gateway. There are exceptions to all of that, but those do seem to be common factors. It even happens to users that made sure their router doesn't use a conflicting subnet, or they have a pure AP that has no NAT capability at all.
 
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Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
70,746
13,855
126
www.anyf.ca
Sucks. I'm always scared my ISP might introduce caps. Right now you can get up to 250mb/30mb and all plans including that one are uncapped. But company keeps getting bought out, it's like the 3rd buyout now. And every time it happens they change stuff like the name of the product/plans etc. Always scared they decide to add caps too. Everyone else is doing it, so they don't really have a reason not to as well.

What sucks is most consumers just look at the numbers "wow 1 gigabit per second!" Yeah, if you actually use it for more than a few minutes you blow your cap and end up with a ridiculously high bill because all data from that point is now charged per MB.
 

Sonikku

Lifer
Jun 23, 2005
15,908
4,940
136
For once I have something positive to say about Time Warner and that is they don't do the caps bullshit. Sadly though I doubt that will remain true for long. Now that their peers are all getting on board with this behavior they'll probably follow the "Everyone else was doing it so it's ok if I do it too" logic.
 

Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
9,549
1,130
126
Sucks. I'm always scared my ISP might introduce caps. Right now you can get up to 250mb/30mb and all plans including that one are uncapped. But company keeps getting bought out, it's like the 3rd buyout now. And every time it happens they change stuff like the name of the product/plans etc. Always scared they decide to add caps too. Everyone else is doing it, so they don't really have a reason not to as well.

What sucks is most consumers just look at the numbers "wow 1 gigabit per second!" Yeah, if you actually use it for more than a few minutes you blow your cap and end up with a ridiculously high bill because all data from that point is now charged per MB.

In your scenario, are you archiving porn or something? I have their 1GB service. I've never hit 1TB in a single month, let alone in a few minutes.
 

SparkyJJO

Lifer
May 16, 2002
13,357
7
81
Technically, at 1Gbps if you were to max out the connection and somehow hold it at the full 1Gbps speed, it would take 136.53 minutes to reach 1TB of usage, not just a few minutes ;)
 

Sonikku

Lifer
Jun 23, 2005
15,908
4,940
136
In your scenario, are you archiving porn or something? I have their 1GB service. I've never hit 1TB in a single month, let alone in a few minutes.

I download uncompressed 4k pron.

Don't you dare judge me. :colbert:
 

Elixer

Lifer
May 7, 2002
10,371
762
126
This is why Charter has been a good ISP, with basically no caps.
In fact, they do commercials against AT&T about caps.

We really need much more competition to fix this mess, before, they broke up the bells, then they allowed them to get back together.
It is the fault of all the politicians who accepted bribes to turn the other way while they were making local city contracts.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
70,746
13,855
126
www.anyf.ca
In your scenario, are you archiving porn or something? I have their 1GB service. I've never hit 1TB in a single month, let alone in a few minutes.

No I just don't like to be limited. I'm paying for the service, I want to be able to actually use it. There is simply no point in high speed internet if it's capped.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
70,746
13,855
126
www.anyf.ca
Technically, at 1Gbps if you were to max out the connection and somehow hold it at the full 1Gbps speed, it would take 136.53 minutes to reach 1TB of usage, not just a few minutes ;)

Yeah I as being generous with the assumption that you might not get exactly 1gbps from the server.
 

13Gigatons

Diamond Member
Apr 19, 2005
7,461
500
126
As someone who has Gigapower, I rarely hit half a TB in a month.

And this is a non-issue if you subscribe to TV service as does most of ATT uverse customers.

IT'S ALWAYS AN ISSUE. When any ISP decides to charge more for the same product and do so in a way that affects future uses, 4K video will be ubiquitous in 5 years and it will be pretty easy to blow by your cap.

And 50GB for $10 is just plain highway robbery.

Eventually they will charge TV users as well. Their simply boiling the frog slowly.

PS: A family of four now has to be careful not to exceed 300 or 600 GB per month.

PSS: They say most users use 100GB per month, so why bother with this at all? Just throttle the abusers and leave the rest of use alone.
 

John Connor

Lifer
Nov 30, 2012
22,757
619
121
Once upon a time it was about Carnegie Steel, Rockefeller and Edison. Now it's about Comcast, Charter and Time Warner...

Scratch that, reverse it. Now it's about ComcastNBSUniversal, Microsoft and Apple.
 
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slag

Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
10,473
81
101
Netflix is our greatest ally at this point and time. Last I recall, they have to pay ISPs just to make sure they aren't throttling connections to them. Obviously if Netflix lags, the customer is going to likely blame Netflix (because they are too stupid to think of the ultimate source).

Sadly the demon I have to deal with is Comcast. Every 6-12 months I have to do a circle jerk with their reconciliation team to say "I'm not paying your obscene price, give me a reasonable price and I'll continue"... This time their best deal was $50 for Internet and basic cable....

And HOLY SHIT I've never seen something more worthless than basic cable on a cable box. You essentially get ~5% of the channels, which means half the time you're flipping through the other 95% saying "WHICH FUCKING CHANNELS DO I GET?!" God forbid you do something like only show channels that you do have... but noooo, you want us to flip to a channel we don't get and say "Hey! I don't get this channel... I'll just call ComCrap and pay another $20/month for this!"


Here's the deal. Netflix GIVES, at the request of the ISP, fully loaded movie boxes to the ISPS so that they don't have to stream most movies outside of their network. The Netflix argument is a weak one at best considering there are options out there to stream within their own network most of the popular shows that are available to watch. The ISP just has to implement the local solution and they can save a ton of money.
 

John Connor

Lifer
Nov 30, 2012
22,757
619
121
I just saw a commercial for the Playstation network something or other. I think it's Vue? Wasn't paying attention. I wonder how that is?