Help with my first OC...stable but some questions

[Twitch22]

Hello everyone.

Well, the OverClocking bug has bitten me and I decided to "mildly" OC my rig in that, 1.) So many of us have been achieving relatively easy OC's with the C2D, and 2.) I realized that with the parts I've selected, there's a lot of headroom to go from "stock" performance.

Anyway, I'm now running my C2D E6600 at 2.99 GHz, V Core is set at 1.30, FSB at 333. Memory manually timed at 4-4-4-12 with voltage set to 2.2 (recommended settings per Crucial for my Ballistix set). Still using stock, Intel cooler with idle CPU temp avg'ing 34 degrees. Like I said, a pretty mild overclock. On to my questions:

- System is stable and solid, but, when restarting, it powers all the way down, waits for a about 3 seconds, then begins to power up. The fans stop spinning completely, where as before during a restart, they system never really powered down...it just re-booted. Once started, XP boots up with no problems. Is this normal?

- In setting my memory's timings manually, I noticed a "DRAM Write RecoveryTime" setting. I left this at the default 4 Clocks value. What does this setting mean and what should it be?

- Last, again in reguards to memory, when does OC'ing memory become mandatory, ie. even though I've only bumped my CPU/FSB settings by a little bit, do I now need to look into increasing memory performance?

I'm really not looking into pushing my rig by much. More concerned with making sure I'm not damaging any components or running any settings that lead to instability or performance issues.

Thanks for any help or suggestions...

Twitch

 

[BoboKatt]

DANG! You just described my system pretty much. I bought the Ballistix as you did, have the same CPU and was looking for a Crossfire Mobo as I have 2 x1900xt so the one you got is the one I am ordering. I already bought a new Typhoon for the CPU as I have used one on my AMD X2 4800+ and JUST LOVE it. You wont regret that.

In regards to your OC, you are correct in saying it is a mild OC. From the system you have you "could" at the very least reach 3.2 or if you go for it, the ever loving 3600Mhz (9X400) with better than cooling than stock. From the RAM you have and I have, those are RATED at 400mhz min RAM wise it would not be the limiting factor.

For the power down issue, there were many posts in regards to flaky power downs but just to compare, my 939 Crossfire Asus board actually does that as well as it plays with all the fans and Cool and Quiet settings etc. The important part is that it reboots There might be a delay feature maybe for your RAM or HD though within your BIOS that might affect that but I am not sure.

As for memory speeds I am just hoping to get 1:1 with my ram, i.e... full DDR2-800 spec (or 400 FSB) at its rated timings. I have read and heard from many that CD2 are flaky or perform weird if NOT running at say 1:1, or in other words if you are under clocking the RAM compared to your CPU. In fact there were some reviews were you seriously lost much performance by doing that. At this point I don?t really know how fast your RAM is going ? you stated your timings (stock) but I assume your RAM is running 1:1? Anyhow at the very least if you have such nice RAM try and run it as close to its rated max as possible. You are NOT pushing your RAM by any means at the speeds you are doing.

I might be off but I am not sure on the other hard how much of a gain you would get say if you did the 4:5 setting or in other words, keeping FSB at 400 and RAM would be running at close to 1000 (does your board offer the 4:5 setting ratio?). I would think this would improve performance if your RAM can take it, but you would have to lower timings (maybe). Then that brings up the whole other aspect of whether you are better off with the fastest possible MHZ speed or lower timings. AMD and CD2.. each one had their issues and pros and cons.

lastly about damaging, as long as you have good cooling and the temps are not insane, there is not much chance for that. Again as stated by practically everyone, spending a few $$ on aftermarket cooling will help you in any situation... again think Big Typhoon

 

[myocardia]

A few corrections, BoboKatt. First of all, C2D's function best when running the RAM @ 1:1, no matter what speed the RAM is running. The only time that doesn't apply is if your RAM can function without errors, while running faster than the FSB. In other words, running your PC6400 RAM @ 333 Mhz is underclocking the RAM, but it in no way inhibits performance. You've confused that with running a memory divider, where the RAM runs slower than the FSB.

Also, while not a bad heatsink, there are quite a few heatsinks that outperform the TT Big Typhoon, including the Scythe Ninja, Scythe Infinity, Zalman 9500, and Tuniq Tower. Not that the Typhoon is a poor heatsink. It's a good one. It just isn't as good as quite a few others, at least according to heatsink reviews: link.

You guys have/will have some very nice systems, though. Enjoy them, and don't forget that you didn't buy them so you could read & post on AT.

 

[BoboKatt]

Yup you hit it on the head there for sure -- I was for sure confusing actually applying a memory divider rather than just having it clocked at a lower speed due to the actual ?lower? natural FSB. It would make sense that just running your RAM standard 1:1 no matter what is not losing performance. Thus... what he said

As for the Big Typhoon, my decision on that product is that I have found it to be very quiet, and a huge improvement over stock, comes with everything you need without having to look for an aftermarket fan for it. You don't have to worry about which direction to point it and although yes, large it fits in 3 of my cases with 3 different mobos, RAM. Thus for me you can't go wrong with it. However I have been toying with the idea of the Skythe you linked from what I read about it. Looks great! At the end of the day 2-3 Degrees isn't worth it to disassemble everything though.

And yes? we are spending way too much reading this rather than playing/working/stressing our rigs

 

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: BoboKatt
At the end of the day 2-3 Degrees isn't worth it to disassemble everything though.

And yes? we are spending way too much reading this rather than playing/working/stressing our rigs

Agreed. Agreed. If I were him, I'd more than likely keep it at 3.0 Ghz, with the stock heatsink, and just see if I could get my RAM timings a bit lower. That Micron should do ~3-4-3-10 @ 333 Mhz, I would guess.

 

[Twitch22]

Hey guys....thanks so much for the info!

BoboKatt...yes, I had noticed from several of your previous posts that we had very similar system specs. Building this rig has absolutely made me love computing again. It had been five years between system builds for my personal use, but what a difference with these new dual-core rigs, especially C2D. Still re-reading your post to try and digest the info you've given me...

I'll get it sooner than later...thanks again, guys.

Twitch

 

[bjp999]

Originally posted by: Twitch22
...
- System is stable and solid, but, when restarting, it powers all the way down, waits for a about 3 seconds, then begins to power up. The fans stop spinning completely, where as before during a restart, they system never really powered down...it just re-booted. Once started, XP boots up with no problems. Is this normal?

This is normal with BIOS revisions before 1503. Update your BIOS.

- In setting my memory's timings manually, I noticed a "DRAM Write RecoveryTime" setting. I left this at the default 4 Clocks value. What does this setting mean and what should it be?

I set it to 2 on my system and it works fine. Experiementing doesn't cost anything. After finding a memory config that is stable in Windows, run memtest86 (or one of the variants) on your computer for a few hours to prove that your memory settings are stable.

- Last, again in reguards to memory, when does OC'ing memory become mandatory, ie. even though I've only bumped my CPU/FSB settings by a little bit, do I now need to look into increasing memory performance?

As you push your FSB, you are increasing your processor speed AND your memory speed. You should run your memory at 1:1. The P5W DH will show you the memory timings rather than the ratio. If you set the FSB to 400 (don't boot like that, just set it in BIOS for a second), then check your memory speed options and pick the one that says 800Mhz (the 1:1 setting), then you can lower your FSB back to whatever your want. You'll notice that your memory speed will drop as you lower your FSB.

To run your memory at 1:1 at its rated speed (800MHz), you would need to push your FSB to 400 (processor to 3.6GHz). Getting to this level staple is a good goal, but takes some work.

I'm really not looking into pushing my rig by much. More concerned with making sure I'm not damaging any components or running any settings that lead to instability or performance issues.

No one wants to hurt their equipment. I've only heard of two people damaging anything overclocking their conroe. One set his vcore to 1.6 and one day - poof! (It was under warranty so he got a new one). The second actually removed the build-in heatsink ON THE CPU to expose the core. It didn't survive. (It would be hard to talk Intel into a replacement fot THAT!.) Everyone else (at least 100 people that I have read about) seems to be fine, even people pushing their vCores to 1.7+ with high-end cooling. You should know that the CPU itself has a built in kill switch if the temperature gets too hot. A few people have learned this the hard way and their CPUs are no worse for the experience.

I'd suggest that you get a copy of Intel's Thermal Analysis Tool (TAT) and run it while running dual prime95 (or orthos). If your temps stay below 60C you are fine - some say up to 70C or even higher is okay, but for me I try to stick with the low 60s. This ensures that for normal operations I'm down in the low 50s or upper 40s. This is VERY safe territory! Using TAT, find the FSB that maxes out temps around 60C when running dual prime and stick with that. It will be a conservative setting that I think will be above your current 2.99Ghz.

Most people can get to 360 - 370 with only moderate increases in vCore (up to 1.45v or so) and keeping their temps under control. Getting much higher typically involves pushing vCore above 1.5v and heat starts to become a major problem. Intel rates the vcore max at 1.55v, so going much above that is not recommended. As I said, though, watch the heat. That is the real killer!

I think you are using the stock cooler - that may limit you. Are you using Arctic Silver 5? I'd recommend replacing the stock pad or thermal compound with that if you haven't already, if not upgrading your entire HSF. After losing a 2+ year old P4 CPU, running at stock speeds, to heat related damage (lucky it was still under warranty), I always upgrade my HSF and case cooling. It's cheap insurance.

Good luck!

Thanks for any help or suggestions...

Twitch

BJP
-----------------------------
ASUS P5W DH, BIOS 1503
E6600 @ 3.6 (400 FSB) @ 1.5625 (lapped)
2G GSKILL PC6400 (Manual Memory Timings @ 4/4/4/12)
Scythe Infinity (modded and lapped)
Sapphire 1900xtk (lapped)
SB Audigy 2
Custom Case (3x120mm in, 92mm&120mm out)

 

[BoboKatt]

Great help here and if I might add a question what does P5W-DH go max on RAM voltage? Is it 2.35V correct? My board is coming in 2 days. I have switched back and forth and back and forth with different set ups and combos but this will be what I will stick with. I had just read that many boards are very limited in the voltage that is provided to the RAM so OC'ing can be limited if you get RAM that requires more V to reach higher speeds than some other types of RAM. Anyhow no biggie.

Also to the OP... I never noticed your bios revision (Duh Me!!). As stated further down update that right away. I just assumed you had flashed to the latest, which apparently for many, fixes that boot issue.

On a side note about cooling etc, again as stated aftermarket cooling really helps (well the good ones do anyway ). Also applying the goo (AS-5) correctly really does as well and in many cases having a "burn in period". I am still amazed that the longer I run my current AMDX2-4800+ (oced to 2800Mhz) at how much cooler it's running after a few months. It's a setup I refuse to change around as it just seems to be perfectly worked in. That's why I had recommended the Big Typhoon. In reality I am sure that any of the other ones suggested work as good if not better, but for me I am sold on that. Plus it's so readily available locally that is... for me at least.

Good luck and let me know if you do push it higher, how that goes

 

[bjp999]

Originally posted by: BoboKatt
Great help here and if I might add a question what does P5W-DH go max on RAM voltage? Is it 2.35V correct? My board is coming in 2 days. I have switched back and forth and back and forth with different set ups and combos but this will be what I will stick with. I had just read that many boards are very limited in the voltage that is provided to the RAM so OC'ing can be limited if you get RAM that requires more V to reach higher speeds than some other types of RAM. Anyhow no biggie.

Which CPU are you ordering? If it is the E6600 and E6700, there is little need to push the RAM. In my setup, I am just barely able to run my RAM at its rated speed. If you are using an E6400 and especially for the E6300, your RAM is more important. Kind of seems backwards, but to push the E6300 (7x multiplier) to the same GHz as the E6600 (9x multiplier), you'd have to push the FSB much higher. Higher FSB means pushing the RAM harder. Using dividers is an option, but the best performance is 1:1. The memory voltage is selectable on the P5W. I don't remember the range, but think it is pretty generous. Mine is set to auto. Note that some have pushed the RAM voltage "to be safe" but later found out it was more stable at stock voltage than pushed even a small amount. YMMV.

On a side note about cooling etc, again as stated aftermarket cooling really helps (well the good ones do anyway ). Also applying the goo (AS-5) correctly really does as well ... I had recommended the Big Typhoon ...

I bought the Scythe Infinity HSF and have been pretty happy with it. I did have to do some dremeling because otherwise it contacts some capacitors on the P5W. Not a big deal, but if I were to pick I'd probably pick a different one because of that. The Tuniq Tower, Scythe Ninja, Noctua, Big Typhoon and a few others seem to get the most favorable comments. Do some research to get the best one at the best price for you. I found mounting to be a big issue. Find a HSF that people say is pretty easy to install and secure because you're likely to be reinstalling at least 2-3 times while you get it right. I found some alternate mounting directions for my Scythe which makes removal and reinstall pretty painless! If anyone is interested ask and I will lookup and post the URL. The stock mounting was a pain.

Note that as important as a good cooler is, without good contact between the HS and CPU, none will work very well. I applied too little AS5 the first time and I found the temps were higher than expected (not aweful, but higher than I thought as I increased speed). I reapplied more liberally and the core temps dropped by 12C at load at 3.3Ghz! In the process of uninstalling, I found that the CPU had etched the HSF in a hollow square, showing that the CPU was only contacting around the edges. Not a good thing. This lead me to lap the HSF and CPU. Although the Scythe appeared very flat and had a mirrored finish, after lapping it I can tell you it was not flat. The etching was more the CPUs fault - many report that the surface (IHS) is concave. I lapped the HSF and relunctantly the CPU after about a month of use. This voids the CPU warranty I'm told. After lapping both the HSF and the CPU, my core temps dropped another 11C. So i realized a 23C (at load) core temp drop by properly applying the AS5 and lapping my HSF and CPU. This last mod got me to 3.6GHz stable, my goal.

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: SPECIAL NOTE ON APPLYING AS5: :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

The directions for applying AS5 tell you NOT to take it apart to inspect for fear of creating air bubbles. I recommend that you apply it, mount it, (even use it for a few days), and then take it apart and inspect the AS5 for good spread and contact. If all is well, clean it up and reapply about the same amount. But if not, adjust accordingly. Too much is almost as bad as too little. Also look for signs of etching in the HSF. (A quick back and forth twist is recommneded when installing the HSF onto the CPU, this technique probably caused the etch - a good thing IMO). A setup where the HSF and CPU are very flat will need less, but you won't really know how much you should use until you look! The small amount of wasted AS5 is nothing. You'll never use up that tube unless you start making computers for all your friends and family! If you also apply AS5 to the NB and SB, be very careful. The directions say to use the thinnest possible layer applied with a razor blade. I did this and when I took it apart I found ALMOST NO CONTACT. I applied more liberally. I wonder how many people did this mod and are now thinking that they have good NB cooling when in reality they have almost NONE. There is no way to mointor the NB temperature!

Good luck!

 

[Twitch22]

Wow!! Awesome info, bjp999...thanks you and welcome to the Forums!

FWIW, I am using the older AS-Alumina formula for my thermal compound. I am still running on stock Intel HSF, but plan on shopping around this weekend for a better solution. I am extremely happy and satisfied so far with my new build. I was/still am mostly a stock-performance kinda' guy, but could not resist trying to OC a little bit since the C2D's have been so responsive with very minimal effort.

Don't know if I'll try to push it any further since this is my primary, personal rig. But, it's nice to know I still have a bit more to go if the need to get faster ever arises!

Twitch

 

[bjp999]

It's nice to be here. Thanks! :beer:

 

[andyo]

Hey, all, and especially to bjp999

I got the same P5w+E6600 combo, and I have it overclocked at 3.6 GHz (400x9) stably, but I am worried that others have Vcore lower than me. Mine is now set on BIOS at 1.5875, and the monitoring with PC Probe II fluctuates between 1.55 and 1.58. Anything lower gets unstable. My question is if I need to raise other voltages, like MCH in order to get stable at a lower Vcore, or is it just OK to have it like it is? Mem voltage is at 2.0 (from 1.9V stock) on Corsair XMS2 DDR2 800 (5-5-5-12 tweaked to 4-4-4-12). Pretty much nothing else changed that could matter. EIST is disabled.

Thanks.

 

[bjp999]

First, congratulations on getting stable at 400x9.

I think 1.5875 is about the highest I'd go, and I might consider dropping a couple FSB if I could back this down a few hundreths of a volt. I say this only because there was a report of someone stable at 1.6v that broke their CPU, and their temps were pretty low. Intel specs the max voltage at 1.55v, so for me between 1.55v and 1.6 v is a kind of gray area. Of course when OCing there are no guarantees.

You don't mention your cooling HW or coretemps. Have you lapped (HSF and/or CPU)?

A setting that helped me get stable was the vFSB (i bumped to 1.4). That may help you lower your vCore if you haven't done already. I don't know that vMCH is really helping - I boosted mine to 1.65 and am running that now, but I think I could lower with no affect. I'm not pushing my PC-6400 memory very hard (like you I went from 5-5-5-15 to 4-4-4-12 at FSB400). I think people need to push vMCH if they are OCing an E6300 or E6400 and are really pushing the memory. I have not overvolted the RAM at all.

Post your coretemps while running orthos. If they're maxing out in the upper 50s, and you're stable with Orthos for 4+ hours, I'd feel pretty confident. If your temps are a lot higher than that, I'd back off.

You should consider lapping your HSF and maybe even your CPU (voids warranty) if you haven't already. You may be able to drop your temps and then reduce your vCore further. You may even be able to push beyond 400FSB with better cooling.

Let me know ...

BJP

 

[andyo]

Thanks for your answer. I'll try your recommendations and then I'll post back with the results. By the way, my temps seem to be OK. My CPU is 43° idle and peaks at 55° at 100%. It's a bit weird, though. When running Sandra, With some tests it peaks at 48° at 100% and others peaks at 55° at 100% too.

Thanks again.

 

[andyo]

Hi again, bjp999, by vFSB did you mean FSB termination? I don't know exactly what that does, so I just left it in auto. I tried again setting the Vcore 1 notch down (to 1.5750), and It took a bit of Sandra CPU burn-in (5 tests of CPU arithmetic and multimedia consecutively -- 100% CPU) flawlessly. I know it's not much, but it was just preliminary. Then I ran some RAW conversions (pictures) off Camera RAW (photoshop CS2 app) straight to jpeg, and it didn't take too long to freeze and restart. It is weird, since Camera RAW doesn't stress the cpu to 100% all the time. The memory tests were also flawless with Sandra with my current settings (1.5875 Vcore, 2.0 DRAM at 4-4-4-12). Camera RAW runs fine at these settings too, so I don't think it was memory. Something in Camera RAW seems to be stressing the CPU more in some way than Sandra.

Any further ideas? By the way, I don't think I need to lap my CPU or heatsink (Thermaltake Big Typhoon VX). I'm not having much trouble with my temps anyway, I am just concerned at the somewhat high Vcore I need to keep this stable, compared to others' accounts.

Thanks again.

 

[bjp999]

Sounds like you are extremely close!

Yes, vFSB is FSB termination voltage. Try pushing to 1.4v and see if that helps your stability situation.

Initially try:
vCore at 1.55v
vFSB at 1.4v
vMCH at auto
vICH at auto
Memory voltage at auto

You might want to set your memory timing to 5/5/5/15 to make sure it is not interfering. You can drop back down after the CPU is stable. You could also raise vMCH and see if you think it helps. From my research, I don't think it matters, but I'd be interested in what you find.

Raise vCore from there. Use dual Prime95 (or Orthos) over Sandra for stressing the CPU. It's the proven standard, and I've never heard of anyone who got dual prime stable that went on to find another app that failed because of OCing. 100% CPU utilitization in Windows does not mean 100% CPU load. I don't know how Windows computes its %, but don't really trust it for this. Use Intel's TAT to monitor your temps. If your TAT core temps are maxing at 55C at FSB400 with dual prime, then your air cooling is extremely good, even for lapped parts. There are so many different tools for measuring temps, different tools for applying load, as well as different ambient temps, it's hard to compare apples to apples. Some people report the far less reliable "CPU temp" that might report temps in the 50s, while their coretemps are in the 70s!

Good luck! Let me know how it goes.

 

[andyo]

Ignorance is bliss! I got TAT now, and I am one of those people who had their CPU temps in the 50s, but TAT peaks to 79-80 when I do its own workload test at 100%. It even heats the CPU more than Sandra and others. Where Sandra peaked at 55°C, TAT workload peaks at 65°C (by motherboard CPU temp measurements). So, TAT workload, 65°C mobo CPU measurements, and 78-80 TAT's own measurements. I wouldn't have known.

That is with my "stable" settings at 1.5875 vCore, Big Typhoon to the max RPM, and mem returned to normal SPD settings (1.9V 5-5-5-18). This is the most stable I've gotten at 3.6 GHz, passing flawlessly 30+minutes of Sandra CPU workloads, Super Pi, CPUMark, and some minutes of TAT 100% workload. It also does well with Camera RAW conversions, but then I decided to try Camera RAW, and at the same time put the CPU at 100% with TAT. This is the most stressful test so far that I've done, where this could take a lot of time of Sandra 100% beating, it couldn't take one minute of Camera RAW conversions plus TAT workload. So now my most stable settings aren't really.

Oh well, back to the drawing board. I encourage you, if you have photoshop CS2 and happen to work with RAW pictures, to do this test. I am getting the feeling that it is more telling than others for stability. If the computer is stable at 30+ minutes of CPU and memory Sandra workloads, but not one minute with this test, then it has to be doing something right.

So now my trouble is that even at vCore 1.5875 I'm not stable. So I tried now to have auto OC. I have it now at 30% OC, and everything is just fine. The test mentioned before ran without problems, converting 121 RAW pics without a hitch, with the TAT workload running too. I tried to run the same test at 1.6 vCore but it froze again. I am not going higher than that.

What do you think? I think the only thing left to do now is to get some liquid cooling and see if I can stay at those vCores. But does better cooling allow me to lower vCore, or just to operate at higher vCores by cooling better? Right now on Auto I have the CPU at 346.4x9 = 3117.8 MHz, and the measurements of vCore with PC probe seem to be very consistent with my 1.5875 settings (fluctuating between 1.55 and 1.58). So if the mobo sets vCore automatically to 1.5875 for a 3.1 GHz auto setting, I think I need more than 1.6 to get stable (as an auto 50% OC would) for a 400x9 setting.

Thanks for your advices so far. What do you think I should do now? MCH and FSB termination didn't help much. FSB helped just marginally, but failed the test too, both at 1.4V and 1.55V, so I just reset it to auto. I wonder if there's a way to find out what those voltages are on auto overclocking, to have an idea what the mobo has to do when overclocking higher.

Thanks again.

 

[bjp999]

Ignorance may be bliss, but knowing that you're running your CPU at high temperatures is important to know!

Why don't you run dual prime95? That's what everyone runs, and if it runs stable you are stable. Period. It also provides a load that let's you compare your temperatures with others. The TAT 100% load is an even higher load, but since nobody uses it, your temperatures are not comparable! I have NEVER seen anyone post OC problems on a system that is dual prime stable. Obviously Sandra can't stress nearly as much. Your RAW converter is a CPU intensive task, but I can promise you dual prime95 is more!

I was able to reduce my core temps by 23C with two distinct efforts. The first 12C came by removing my HSF and realizing that my AS5 had not spread enough (I hadn't used enough). Although there are many warnings to not overapply, I can tell you from personal experience that too little is the worst. Before reapplying I was around 65C at 3.3Ghz (1.45v, FSB370), and afterwards was around 53C. I was not able to lower the volts any, but the temps were much improved. I tried pushing to 3.6GHz (400FSB), but the best I could do was 3.55GHz (390FSB) at 1.55v and 65C temps. I tried up to 1.6v at 400FSB and thought I was stable but my computer spontaneously rebooted after about 2 hours of dual prime. Not sure what causes that, but I was bummed. My temps were in the low 70s - the absolute max I was willing to go.

My second drop came from lapping my CPU and HSF. My HSF looked great, flat and shiny. My CPU, however, was NOT. I could see that the HSF was etched in the shape of the CPU when I took it apart to reAS5, indicating that I was only getting good contact around the edges. I decided to lap the CPU, and lap the HSF at the same time, since it was scratched up. I was shocked that the HSF was an UNflat as it was. It took a lot of elbow grease to get the large surface area flat. Between lapping the two (I didn't measure them separately), I dropped another 11C. Before this I was running at FSB390 at 65C under load. Afterwards I was running the same at 54C. At this point I was actually able to lower the vCore to 1.5125 and still run stable at FSB390 with temps at 48C. I was also able to push to FSB400 and keep temps just shy of 60C at 1.5625. It was darn close at 1.55v, but needed the little extra. I ran for over 7 hours with dual prime. Any higher FSB and I have trouble, this is the fastest I can run without doing something more exotic. I'm considering buying some liquid metal to replace the AS5 to see what that buys me, if anything.

I have two suggestions for you. Reapply the AS5. The technique you use is important. See my post above for some hints. My guess is that you could easily see 5-10C from applying it carefully. Go to a local electical supply store and buy some stiff chamois swabs used for cleaning fiber optic equipment if you really want to clean your CPU and HSF before applying the new. That with some fiber optic cleaner (99+% pure isopropyl alcohol) will get you extremely clean which is very important to getting your AS5 to fill the micro-crevices. I read that you can get up to 2x the surface area of contact with a well cleaned vs poorly cleaned HSF/CPU.

The second suggestion is the lap your HSF. You won't know if it is flat or not until you do it. Its not that hard and you'll learn something in the process. People report dropping between about 7 to 12C by lapping the HSF, and another 2C from lapping a relatively flat CPU. I do not recommend lapping the CPU unless you have evidence that it is concave like mine was. It voids the warranty.

Your CPU sounds like a better OCer than mine, and with some effort I'm sure you can hit 400FSB with load temps in the 50s, and maybe faster. Good luck!

 

[andyo]

Hi again. I am gonna take your suggestions. Any good technique to lap the HSF? And what exactly do you need? At this point I am considering liquid cooling, but if I can just take it with my Big Typhoon, then it could be great. What HSF are you using? I hear the Tuniq Tower 120 is one of the best air coolers. I might try that too if this proves too little and liquid too expensive/cumbersome.

Also, is AS5 that much better? I am using the paste that came with the cooler. I didn't do much research on paste before, I guess beginner's mistake.

Thanks again, will report back when I am done.

 

[bjp999]

Stick with the things that others have been successful with. 99% of all OCers use AS5. Why? Because it works. Is Zalman's goop almost as good? Almost as good isn't good enough, use AS5. And use it properly, which means searching and reading about the right amount and how to apply. Cleanliness and attention to detail is key.

Same with using dual Prime95 and TAT. These are the tools of those that have been successful. If you want to be successful, use them too.

The difference between a newbie and a success story is in reading and following the proven path. A newbie is looking for the magic bullet, a success story rolls up their sleeves and follows the proven approaches painstakenly. For example, taking your computer apart and removing the HSF to change the TIM to AS5 is a pain. You can come up with all sorts of reasons that you think it won't help. But if you want to be successful, you have to do it.

Use google and seach for lapping heatsink instructions. You can get wet dry sandpaper from auto parts stores (in the US, NAPA stores have decent paper that come in convenient kits). Buy a cheap picture frame to get the glass.

Many experienced OCers have better temps with air than newbies have with water. Water is not guaranteed to improve your temps. The same basics of good contact, correctly applied AS5, and clean parts still apply. Water also introduces some (at least for me) scary scenarios. Coming home and finding a puddle of blue water around my computer is NOT a happy thought. Inexpensive water kits get pretty bad reviews from the experts, and the better stuff is very pricey. I suggest that you learn air cooling well first, then if you want to try water, do it. Most people with water are trying for high benchmarks and not trying for high stable systems. Even if you could get your system to 4.0GHz @55C under load at 1.7v, would you run that every day? (Most people can't get to 4.0GHz stable even with good water.)

I'm not sure why you backed your OC down so much. I'd stick with manual and find a comfortable FSB that maxes our your TAT temps around 60 or 65C under dual prime95 load. My guess is that will be around 370 or so, with a 1.45 or less voltage.

Good luck!

 

[andyo]

Hello,

Some new findings. I actually already decided am sticking with air. The temps, as you said, when work-loading with TAT are a bit unrealistic. I don't know exactly how it works, but I've read elsewhere that it does actually more than 100%, which you also seemed to imply. I am only gonna use TAT for monitoring from now on.

I didn't back the OC that much purposely. I just was looking for a decent stable temporary setting until I get things going better. Auto OC at 30% was just a quick flick-of-the-switch setting until then. I am now back to my now realistically stable 1.5875 vCore, at 400x9, and 1.4V FSB for whatever it's proven to be worth for me. Ran my Camera RAW with Sandra in the background with no problems. Again, this is preliminary. I am going to do prime 95 too later on, but I haven't had the time to run a long session yet. Temps in TAT are peaking at 68° now at 100% with Sandra and Camera RAW, but only for very short bursts. Mostly they are about 65°.

So now what's left is to shave off some excess °C's. I am gonna get AS5, you seem to be a big fan of it. I wasn't really skimping when I used my cooler's paste, I just wouldn't have known paste made such a big difference (I thought maybe a couple of °C's but not like more than 10, as you said). I am also gonna try and see what I can do to my heatsink. Luckily the new Big Typhoon VX is very easy to install and take off.

Thanks again, will keep posting my progress, also if I can get my vCore down after all.

 

[bjp999]

Don't run your computer every day at an unstable FSB or one that puts you at risk of too high a coretemp. You're just asking for trouble. NOTHING is more important than being stable. You don't want an unnoticed glitch to mess up your digital photographs! Get stable at 370 or so and stay there until you improve the cooling. Truth is, as much as we quibble about these last few 0.1GHzs, if you didn't know the FSB and started using the computer, I doubt you'd be able to tell the difference between 3.3 and 3.6.

Use google to research how to apply the AS5. How and how much you apply is as important as what you apply. There are tons of posts here and on other forums. I read about one guy who installed and reinstalled numerous times using slightly different techniques and amounts and every time he got different temperature results. Learn as much as you can so that you can avoid others mistakes and get a good result the first or second time. Make sure the parts are extremely clean (I posted the brand of some lint free swabs in another thread that I use to clean the HSF and CPU that you might consider to clean the surfaces).

Oh yea, and don't forget that this if fun, dammit!

 

[andyo]

So anyway, my latest tests with prime 95 revealed some trouble even at my 1.5875 vCore. 1.6 seems to get by OK, but I need to run it for longer.

I have a few questions, though. To run prime 95, you need two different copies of the program, and run them at the same time, right (I did this)?

Second, is there an advantage/disadvantage in setting or not affinity? I feel a stable system should be able to run equally, affinity set or not. And finally, which tests are better to run? I have done the first and second -- minimum RAM and some RAM testing. I take those test the CPU more than anything.

My temps running at 1.6 vCore are maxing at 69~70°C (measured with TAT). That seems like somewhat high, but not extremely high, I guess. I have tried to up MCH voltage, and FSB termination voltage, and none permit me to lower vCore.

Next step for me is to use some better thermal paste, and lap my heatsink. Do you think that lowering the temp will allow me to use a lower vCore, or will just protect me from frying the CPU at higher vCores? AS5 is already on its way.

 

[Canai]

Ok I didn't exactly read every post but the cold boot restart is intentional on ASUS and even if new bios 'fixes' it, I'm sticking with an older revision because it had something to do with preventing a bad OC from frying your system. I'm too tired to figure it out.

In short: it's fine.

Edit: and you guys do realize that running that high of a vcore will more than halve the lifes of your chips right?

edit 2: the max specified core temp of c2d chips (the e6600 at least) is 85ºC, any more than that and you greatly risk your chip. max outer temp is 60ºC I believe.

final cut: any more questions about mobo can prolly be answered here http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...atid=29&threadid=1908399&enterthread=y

 

[andyo]

Ok now, I lapped my heatsink and used AS5. Now my temps are down by about 5°C, to 65°C peak (before they were peaking in the 70s, my earlier assessment was not for prime 95, this one is). have been able to lower my vCore to 1.5750, though I still need to run dual prime 95 for a long time.

I still want to lower both temps and vCore. I am gonna be looking for better cooling in the months to come.

Thanks for everything.