help with gaming notebook buying decision?

[mset]

Guys, I hope this is okay in this section. I'm trying to help a buddy buy a gaming notebook for his kid. I have a couple of questions that I can't get answered elsewhere. Our budget is $1200 - $1400. I would say that this rig doesn't need to be at the absolute bleeding edge - we just want to play Crysis, for example, on medium high settings.

1. Do I need to make sure that the GPU I get is ready for DirectX 11? Is it a big mistake not to?

2. He's looking for a 15.6" or greater screen. In terms of screen resolution, should I now be looking at only 1680 x 1200 or higher? Is 1920 x 1080 the real choice? It's tough for a non-gamer/marginal techie to understand the relationship between screen size, screen res, GPU output and fps. To me this is the big question, and it's one I'm having a bit of a tough time answering.

3. I've found a couple of candidates that are based on the Core i5 dual core procs. Is this okay or should I be looking exclusively at Core i7 quad core? The speed of i.e. the i7 720 QM (1.6 GHz, right?) is way slower than the dual core procs... not quite sure what that means.

Any comments are appreciated, including recommendations in my price range.

 

[s44]

It's more or less the case that only GPU matters. Spend some time studying this chart while considering models. Higher res = lower framerates at native res. Quad i7s turbo up to much higher clocks when only one or two cores are under load.

 

[Kromis]

Check out powernotebooks in case you see something you like!

http://www.powernotebooks.com/

 

[PieIsAwesome]

What sort of mobility are you looking for?

A hot, giant 10lb+ laptop, with terrible battery life but with the best mobile gpu available

or

A 15" notebook or so, with more medium-range mobile graphics, decent battery life for a notebook, and around 5 lbs?

 

[mset]

It's more or less the case that only GPU matters. Spend some time studying this chart while considering models. Higher res = lower framerates at native res. Quad i7s turbo up to much higher clocks when only one or two cores are under load.

Okay, that's kind of what I figured. So you wouldn't worry too much about future proofing him by making sure his card is ready for DirectX 11?

Believe it or not I found that page you linked me to. Many of the notebooks in my price range available up here (Canada) had the GTS 360M. Others had the Broadway 5850, and I saw that they were right next to each other in terms of performance.

I'm also assuming that as of right now, most of the games are only optimized for dual core.

 

[mset]

What sort of mobility are you looking for?

A hot, giant 10lb+ laptop, with terrible battery life but with the best mobile gpu available

or

A 15" notebook or so, with more medium-range mobile graphics, decent battery life for a notebook, and around 5 lbs?

That's a good question. The kid says he will be doing most of his gaming plugged in, so battery life isn't crucial. Still, this will be his school notebook and maybe he doesn't quite know how bulky a 17" unit will be when you put it in a case. When we spoke we talked 15.6". I guess I'm looking for the best GPU possible for our price in that form factor.

 

[dud]

It's more or less the case that only GPU matters. Spend some time studying this chart while considering models. Higher res = lower framerates at native res. Quad i7s turbo up to much higher clocks when only one or two cores are under load.

Very nice link ... thanks for posting!

OP, that's a lot of money to spen on a gaming machine for a kid. Recommend that you (and your friend) consider a used machine vice a new (up to $1,400) machine. Depreciation on that monster is going to be fierce.

Consider my latest acquisition: I just picked up a near-mint condition Dell precision M90 with a T7600 processor, 4 GB RAM and a Quadro FX vid card for $300. The machine has a gorgeous 17" screen. I picked it up for my wife to do CAD work on if our main machine goes down. It was quite the over-priced powerhouse back-in-the-day. Sure, it's out of warranty but it does much more than I would expect, including playing some great games, for a samll fraction of what the original owner paid for it (over $2,000 is my guess).

let us know what your friend decides to do ...

 

[xCxStylex]

A couple of notes to remember about resolution...

Resolution is largely personal preference. I prefer lower resolutions because I have bad eyes, but most people prefer higher resolutions for better detail.

Higher resolution panels are generally more expensive as well.

Also, as higher resolutions have more pixels, they are more demanding on the GPU. Getting a lower resolution GPU can help game performance a little, especially if you're comparing laptops that are exactly the same except for resolution. (e.g. the gateway 7805u where the first ones shipped "accidentally" had 1900 x 1200 panels instead of 1440x900

2. He's looking for a 15.6" or greater screen. In terms of screen resolution, should I now be looking at only 1680 x 1200 or higher? Is 1920 x 1080 the real choice? It's tough for a non-gamer/marginal techie to understand the relationship between screen size, screen res, GPU output and fps. To me this is the big question, and it's one I'm having a bit of a tough time answering.

 

[mwmorph]

1920x1080 is nice for movies at 1080p.

As for good value choices, I would go
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16834220695

It's got just about the most power graphics card possible and an excellent overall specs as far as hard drives, cpu, ram and screen resolution.

Or a
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16834220700
Slightly weaker in every way but cheaper and a 15.6" instead of a 17" screen and is still a very fast laptop.

Core i5/7 cpus are different. A 1.6Ghz Core i7Q720 for example is a bas speed. With intel laptop turbo boost dynamically alters cpu speed. A Core i7 at 1.6GHZ is a bas speed for heavy 4 core loads, under 1 or 2 core loads, it actually overclocks itself.

Fore example, when I play games, I have a Core i7 720QM. It clocks up from 1.6 to 2.8GHZ under single or dual core loads so it ends up very, very quick and if required to do 4 core work, it is still flexible enough to use 4 cores. There is no downside to getting a core i7 for gaming.

It really depends on the game also. Many are GPU intensive, but a few are more CPU bound than GPU bound (for example Grand Theft Auto 4 and Supreme Commander), so it's good to strike a balance, with GPU taking a slightly bigger overall focus.

 

[Lotheron]

Very nice link ... thanks for posting!

OP, that's a lot of money to spen on a gaming machine for a kid. Recommend that you (and your friend) consider a used machine vice a new (up to $1,400) machine. Depreciation on that monster is going to be fierce.

Consider my latest acquisition: I just picked up a near-mint condition Dell precision M90 with a T7600 processor, 4 GB RAM and a Quadro FX vid card for $300. The machine has a gorgeous 17" screen. I picked it up for my wife to do CAD work on if our main machine goes down. It was quite the over-priced powerhouse back-in-the-day. Sure, it's out of warranty but it does much more than I would expect, including playing some great games, for a samll fraction of what the original owner paid for it (over $2,000 is my guess).

let us know what your friend decides to do ...

Laptops are one those items you never should buy used. They are abused, dropped, etc. Hard drives have shock tolerances that you never know might have been exceeded. Noticeable physical abuse that might not be apparent since it could be covered in a bag or whatnot when dropped.

 

[mset]

As for good value choices, I would go
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16834220695

It's got just about the most power graphics card possible and an excellent overall specs as far as hard drives, cpu, ram and screen resolution.

Or a
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16834220700
Slightly weaker in every way but cheaper and a 15.6" instead of a 17" screen and is still a very fast laptop.

Very helpful response, especially for the comments re" CPU performance. The G51JX-X1 you linked to had actually come across my radar. The reason I had put it on the list of 'second choices' is that I saw the MSI GS 640-260 , with the HD 5850 Broadway GPU. I got it stuck in my head that getting a GTS 360M based rig would somehow be a compromise. Problem with the MSI is that everywhere I go on the net, reviewers are complaining about the build quality, especially the keyboard. Like this one , for example. If I could shake the idea that a GTS 360M card like the one in the G51JX-X1 is that much less of a crd than the 5850, I would be home free with lots of choices. Then I see these lists of graphic card hierarchies, and I see that the GTS 360M is clearly a couple of notches below the HD5850.

A last comment from you guys about this question of HD5850 vs. GTS 360M and I should be good to go. Will I take a significant hit moving 'down' from the HD5850 to the GTS360M DDR5?

 

[mset]

Thanks to everyone else for the responses. Re: buying used, I think I will avoid that simply because I want a rig with full warranty for this kid. I understand that some makers let me buy more warranty but I think we'll go new here.

Thanks also to xCxStylex for the post re: screen resolution.

 

[dud]

Laptops are one those items you never should buy used. They are abused, dropped, etc. Hard drives have shock tolerances that you never know might have been exceeded. Noticeable physical abuse that might not be apparent since it could be covered in a bag or whatnot when dropped.

And i would have to totally ... and I mean totally disagree with you. I have been very happy with the USED laptops I have purchased in the past ... especially those with long extended warranties (2x Dell D630s). Except for my netbook, which I purchased new in November, 2008 I no longer buy new. I let the original buyer pay the depreciation and I reap the benefit! It's like the $51,000 Lexus I bought (with only 48,000 miles) for 85% off new.

 

[onlyCOpunk]

www.notebookreview.com is a website dedicated to this type of question. All the information you could ever want, and every laptop reviewed. Also a forum filled with geeks waiting to answer this exact type of question, with even a detailed questionnaire.

 

[OCGuy]

No GPU you buy is really going to be able to handle DX11 right now. The top desktop GPUs barely handle it.

 

[SZLiao214]

Does your friend's son happen to be going to college? I regret buying a semi gaming laptop when i realized it was much better to just build a desktop and get a cheaper notebook.

Some people believe that carrying a computer in and out of your car is worth buying something that is twice as much and 1/2 the speed. Perhaps you could look into shuttle cases if this is the case?

 

[mset]

Does your friend's son happen to be going to college? I regret buying a semi gaming laptop when i realized it was much better to just build a desktop and get a cheaper notebook.

Some people believe that carrying a computer in and out of your car is worth buying something that is twice as much and 1/2 the speed. Perhaps you could look into shuttle cases if this is the case?

That's a real good question, and one we asked him. He apparently does enough gaming outside of the house that he wanted the portability. He's in Grade 12 this year and will go straight to University next year.

Any additional comments regarding the comparative performance of the HD5850 vs. GTS360M, or comments about the GTS360M in particular, are welcome. With our budget (in $CDN) and considering tax + laptop cooler, we are looking hard at this rig and hoping that it will do the trick.

http://www.amazon.ca/ASUS-Republic-G...pr_product_top

 

[carage]

You might want to check out AVADIRECT as well.
I was actually contemplating about buying a similar system.

My choices were basically ASUS, Alienware, and Clevo.
I couldn't find an ASUS model that offered exactly what I want, and the 3D screen isn't a big feature for me. So I eliminated the ASUS G51 in the first round.
Then I configured an Alienware system on Dell's website, and configured a Clevo system on AVADirect to match the specs. The price difference is about $500.

I mentioned this finding to my friend, exclaiming the price difference.
The reaction was: "Duh...if you are buying a $2K+ system, are you sure you want a Clevo?!"

Ever since, I have been wondering whether the reputation and the supposedly more robust support offered by Dell/Alienware would be worth the extra $500.
I still don't have an answer yet.

 

[carage]

Does your friend's son happen to be going to college? I regret buying a semi gaming laptop when i realized it was much better to just build a desktop and get a cheaper notebook.

Some people believe that carrying a computer in and out of your car is worth buying something that is twice as much and 1/2 the speed. Perhaps you could look into shuttle cases if this is the case?

That's what I had in mind too.

 

[rcpratt]

I seriously regret buying a laptop that I intended to game on when I went to college. How much gaming outside of the house (or dorm room, whatever) could someone do?

If I could do it again, I would build a beastly desktop (~$1000) and buy an average netbook to take to class or whatever.

 

[CurseTheSky]

I agree with the gaming laptop sentiment. They're outdated within a year or two (with limited upgradeability), heavy, have bad battery life, etc. If that's what they have their heart set on, it's hard to beat the ASUS G51. If they'll compromise, perhaps they can get a decent, portable 13-14" notebook with decent battery life and a mid-range dedicated graphics card to play a few games, but still take notes and whatnot with ease, THEN build a SFF desktop over time. A $1000 desktop (plus pre-owned monitor, cheap keyboard, mouse, and speakers) is going to be far more capable for gaming than a $1000-1500 laptop. Keep in mind that a mobile HD 5870 is a bit less powerful than a desktop HD 5770.

 

[MJinZ]

I agree with the gaming laptop sentiment. They're outdated within a year or two (with limited upgradeability), heavy, have bad battery life, etc. If that's what they have their heart set on, it's hard to beat the ASUS G51. If they'll compromise, perhaps they can get a decent, portable 13-14" notebook with decent battery life and a mid-range dedicated graphics card to play a few games, but still take notes and whatnot with ease, THEN build a SFF desktop over time. A $1000 desktop (plus pre-owned monitor, cheap keyboard, mouse, and speakers) is going to be far more capable for gaming than a $1000-1500 laptop. Keep in mind that a mobile HD 5870 is a bit less powerful than a desktop HD 5770.

The biggest issue is that mobile processors are huge POS.

1.6ghz quad core?

Holy shit, I run a quad i7 at 4.2ghz 24/7. I can't imagine going down to something shitty like 1.6ghz.

Gaming wise, the difference would be like 100% increase in frames given the same GPU. (If I had a 5770 for example, I would be getting massive improvements over a Mobility 5870 w/ a 1.6ghz quad core).

CPUs used to not matter so much for gaming. And now, GPUs really can't be fed enough CPU.

 

[veri745]

The biggest issue is that mobile processors are huge POS.

1.6ghz quad core?

Holy shit, I run a quad i7 at 4.2ghz 24/7. I can't imagine going down to something shitty like 1.6ghz.

Gaming wise, the difference would be like 100% increase in frames given the same GPU. (If I had a 5770 for example, I would be getting massive improvements over a Mobility 5870 w/ a 1.6ghz quad core).

CPUs used to not matter so much for gaming. And now, GPUs really can't be fed enough CPU.

Add to that that the mobile i7 is actually an i5

 

[Bateluer]

PC Torque has some models you may be interested in in that range as well, the 15.6in 8690 and 2180 have decent specs and are in your price range, as well as boasting powerful hardware. Also, you have a lot of options for configuring RAM, CPU, hard drive, etc, with them.

 

[lupi]

what tyoe of mobile gaming does he plan to do, if he's doing the most intense FPS and such at the room, and just lighter fare on the road, may still want to save the big $$$ for the desktop.