Help with a grammar question.

notfred

Lifer
Feb 12, 2001
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Quoting a question inside a question:

Who said "what did you say?"

Where does the question mark go, Inside or outside the quote? :confused:
 

Zenmervolt

Elite member
Oct 22, 2000
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Assuming that you are quoting a sentence, this is what you do:

Who said, "What did you say?"?

There should be a question mark both before and after the quotation mark. The question mark before the quotation mark ends the quoted sentence, while the question mark outside the quotation mark ends the entire sentence.

ZV
 

Booster

Diamond Member
May 4, 2002
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I'm not the best person to give advice since I can only barely speak and understand English, but my guess is ---> Who said 'what did you say'?
 

silverpig

Lifer
Jul 29, 2001
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Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Assuming that you are quoting a sentence, this is what you do:

Who said, "What did you say?"?

There should be a question mark both before and after the quotation mark. The question mark before the quotation mark ends the quoted sentence, while the question mark outside the quotation mark ends the entire sentence.

ZV

Um, no.

It should be: Who said, "What did you say"?

link

* What if I said to you, "You've got a real problem here"? (Notice that the question mark here comes after the quotation mark and there is no period at the end of the statement.)
 

Linflas

Lifer
Jan 30, 2001
15,395
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I don't know how reliable the Word grammar checker is but it flags Who said "what did you say?"? as incorrect and suggested leaving off the last question mark.
 

Zenmervolt

Elite member
Oct 22, 2000
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Originally posted by: notfred
That makes sense but I don't think I've ever seen it printed anywhere before.
I'm just applying the normal rule in a different instance. For example, proper form is:

She said, "What did you say?".

Notice that there is a period at the end. So logically, punctuation is required both at the end of the quote and at the end of the sentence. (Unless, of course, you're not quoting a sentence, but only an exerpt from a sentence, but I don't think that's what you're doing.)

ZV
 

silverpig

Lifer
Jul 29, 2001
27,703
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Originally posted by: Booster
I'm not the best person to give advice since I can only barely speak and understand English, but my guess is ---> Who said 'what did you say'?

Heh, the ESL guy wins :)
 

LOLyourFace

Banned
Jun 1, 2002
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Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Assuming that you are quoting a sentence, this is what you do:

Who said, "What did you say?"?

There should be a question mark both before and after the quotation mark. The question mark before the quotation mark ends the quoted sentence, while the question mark outside the quotation mark ends the entire sentence.

ZV


AFAIK,WRONG! It should be Who said, "What did you say?" The question mark in the quotation gets the priority. And when the quotation ends the sentence with the quotation mark, it omits the sentences' quotationmark.
 

silverpig

Lifer
Jul 29, 2001
27,703
12
81
Hmmm, seems as though the internet contradicts itself...

From here it seems as though it should be: say?"

A question mark can be found outside the quotation mark if the sentence is asking about a quotation, but the quotation itself is not a question.

Incorrect: Did Mark Antony say, "Friends, Romans, countrymen?"
(A question is not being quoted. The speaker is asking about a quotation.)

Correct: Did Mark Antony say, "Friends, Romans, countrymen"?

In the rare case where the question is about a quotation ending in a question, the sentence ends with a single question mark before the quotation mark.

Incorrect: Who said,"Et tu, Bruté?"?
(Second question mark redundant)

Correct: Who said,"Et tu, Bruté?"

but from the other link I found it says it should be: say"?
 

silverpig

Lifer
Jul 29, 2001
27,703
12
81
Okay, a few more links say that if the quotation is of a question, the question mark goes inside. If the quotation isn't of a question, the question mark goes on the outside.

So, the final correct response is:

...say?"
 

Booster

Diamond Member
May 4, 2002
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I think the question mark should be the last symbol, like '?, because the main sentence has the priority, and the question mark is related to it, while being omitted in the inner sentence.
 

notfred

Lifer
Feb 12, 2001
38,241
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at least I knew it wasn't with two question marks.

Before or after the quote though....
 

Zenmervolt

Elite member
Oct 22, 2000
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Originally posted by: LOLyourFace
Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Assuming that you are quoting a sentence, this is what you do:

Who said, "What did you say?"?

There should be a question mark both before and after the quotation mark. The question mark before the quotation mark ends the quoted sentence, while the question mark outside the quotation mark ends the entire sentence.

ZV


AFAIK,WRONG! It should be Who said, "What did you say?" The question mark in the quotation gets the priority. And when the quotation ends the sentence with the quotation mark, it omits the sentences' quotationmark.
Eh, it's been three years since I've had to bother with a style manual. You are correct though, and I was wrong. Link. (Look at the bottom of the page.)

ZV

EDIT: Personally, I'd just rephrase the sentence to s form I knew how to deal with. I know that's the lazy way, but it's my way. :)
 

silverpig

Lifer
Jul 29, 2001
27,703
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Originally posted by: Booster
I think the question mark should be the last symbol, like '?, because the main sentence has the priority, and the question mark is related to it, while being omitted in the inner sentence.

Seems as though that's true when the quotation is of a statment. If the quotation is of a question mark, then the outside mark is omitted.
 

FrogDog

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2000
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Originally posted by: notfred
at least I knew it wasn't with two question marks.

Before or after the quote though....
I've always thought that punctuation _always_ went inside quotation marks.
 

silverpig

Lifer
Jul 29, 2001
27,703
12
81
Originally posted by: FrogDog
Originally posted by: notfred
at least I knew it wasn't with two question marks.

Before or after the quote though....
I've always thought that punctuation _always_ went inside quotation marks.

Apparently not so... Ya learn something every day I guess :)
 

Zenmervolt

Elite member
Oct 22, 2000
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Originally posted by: silverpig
Originally posted by: FrogDog
Originally posted by: notfred
at least I knew it wasn't with two question marks.

Before or after the quote though....
I've always thought that punctuation _always_ went inside quotation marks.

Apparently not so... Ya learn something every day I guess :)
Actually, the link I looked at has the question mark inside the quotation mark. Here. (Look near the bottom of the page.)

ZV
 

silverpig

Lifer
Jul 29, 2001
27,703
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Originally posted by: silverpig
Okay, a few more links say that if the quotation is of a question, the question mark goes inside. If the quotation isn't of a question, the question mark goes on the outside.

So, the final correct response is:

...say?"

reposted just for reiteration... :)
 

silverpig

Lifer
Jul 29, 2001
27,703
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* See the chapter entitled "The Conclusion, in which Nothing is Concluded." (Periods always go inside.)
* The spokesman called it "shocking," and called immediately for a committee. (Commas always go inside.)
* Have you read "Araby"? (The question mark is part of the outer sentence, not the quoted part, so it goes outside.)
* He asked "How are you?" (The question mark is part of the quoted material, so it goes inside.)
 

Zenmervolt

Elite member
Oct 22, 2000
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Originally posted by: silverpig
Look at the line above that one...
Yes, but notfred is quoting a question. Not ending a quesion with a title. The line above it is for asking a question ending in a title, the second line is for notfred's situation.

ZV
 

FrogDog

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2000
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What that site says actually makes sense. For question marks it depends on what the question mark is part of - the quotation or the sentance containing the quotation. So then it actually would make sense to put two question marks in the original sentance that notfred asked about, but that doesn't look right at all.
 

FrogDog

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2000
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Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Originally posted by: silverpig
Look at the line above that one...
Yes, but notfred is quoting a question. Not ending a quesion with a title. The line above it is for asking a question ending in a title, the second line is for notfred's situation.

ZV
But in notfred's example he's quoting a question and asking a question at the same time.
 

silverpig

Lifer
Jul 29, 2001
27,703
12
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Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Originally posted by: silverpig
Look at the line above that one...
Yes, but notfred is quoting a question. Not ending a quesion with a title. The line above it is for asking a question ending in a title, the second line is for notfred's situation.

ZV

Yeah, I got that. Hence my 6 posts saying:

say?"

would be the correct response. However, frogdog said:

I've always thought that punctuation _always_ went inside quotation marks.

to which I responded:

Apparently not so... Ya learn something every day I guess :)

referring to how the line above the applicable one in notfred's case had the question mark outside the quotation mark, thereby showing him that punctuation does not "_always_" go inside.