Help with a gaming desktop

[tkdromeo]

Well, I feel a bit stupid and I'm not sure where to turn, seems like people here know alot.

I bought a computer from Best Buy last night.
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/ol...&cp=1&id=1188559785167

First of all, tell me whether i should have bought a Dual Core for gaming, and whether it was a mistake to get a Vista. My old computer was a 3.2 Ghz PIII, 1GB Ram, 512 Ati X1650 (Pro i think) and 159 GB HDD. A bit outdated.

Now the one I got seemed really powerful. I assumed that 4 cores with 2.4 GHz each is better than 2 cores with 3.0 GHz. Maybe I was wrong. On top of that, the video card seems awful. Now i think i have a PCI-E x16 slot for 1 card, i need a recommendation for which card to get. Here's the list of what i can get, i can get up to 1k on the card. I have a Best Buy card, that's why I want it from Best Buy - 0% financing Best Buy Vid Cards

The computer is good enough for my Photoshop, Autocad, Maya but i also like to play games like Hellgate and Half Life 2. And i want to turn it up to the max with DX10 if possible.

So please help me out. I could also just use some general knowledge of quad vs dual and does 4x2.5 GHz = 9.6 Ghz? Will it help with gaming, is it better than 2x3.0 Ghz? Etc. My computer is almost 4 years old, that's the last time i did any research on any of this stuff, so I feel pretty stupid.

Thanks in advance guys, i'll check here often since I'm at work.

 

[robisbell]

for a HP it has some nice specs, but wanting DX10 at this time you have to use Vista. I would check into any driver updates and BIOS updates for it. A quad core is faster than a dual, but you'd need software and games written for multi core processors. I think there is either one out now or coming out that is written specifically for multi core processors. Do not forget to check on driver updates (not from Microsoft) and BIOS updates.

 

[lardbeetle]

Get a new video card. The one you have blows chunks.

It's not going to do max with DX10 or 9. It might be able to do low settings with a decent framerate.

The video card you SHOULD get is a Geforce 8800GT. If it isn't out yet, wait.

200 bucks and it's better than an 8800GTS.

((Till then, I'd swap in that Radeon 1650 you have. It's better.))

 

[robisbell]

it's a bloody 8400, not bad, may not be bleeding edge but should be able to handle most anything out now.

I know I wish i could have one of those machines.

 

[lardbeetle]

He says he wants to do max settings with dx10.

An 8400 would not do max settings with dx10 at more than 5-8 fps.

 

[robisbell]

where on AMD site does it state that? Like I said, it's not a bleeding edge card, but overall he's gotten a very nice system for a name brand.

tkdromeo, if you going to be gaming serious to professional yeah then go ahead, but for casual gaming, looks like a nice setup.
I'd give it a chance, do the necessary BIOS update and appropriate driver updates from AMD and etc. and see how it runs.

 

[tkdromeo]

I got a 8800GT 512 MB OC today, and i'm having problems right now. http://forums.anandtech.com/me...id=2115093&STARTPAGE=1

But Lardbeetle is right, i tried running hellgate with graphics maxed and aa at 2 i think, and i was getting less than 5 fps

 

[robisbell]

well, you need to balance the graphics, unless you have a 30" Plasma or LCD screen. I never maxed out the settings when I had the hardware before the fires wiped me out. I think you may have voided a warranty or two with what happened trying to rush putting another card in when you've barely even gotten use to the system and everything, as soon as HP see's the soldering done to it, they'll refuse to fix it and mark the system as non warrantied in their database.

 

[tkdromeo]

I would have replaced the video card right away anyway, i planned on it. And i understand about the wires. I can completely remove that piece though, it's a very small piece, put everything in back together and said it just doesn't work. I mean, it still starts on without that piece. And if i'm grounding the card on something, what should i look for?

 

[robisbell]

they will know you futzed with it, they can refuse to give you back your money and make sure no authorized centers will fix it. Rushing thinking having the greatest and latest got you where you are now, listen to those of us that have been working with pc's for 20 years or more.

 

[tkdromeo]

Well i bought the PC for the purpose of GFx design and gaming. I had plans to replace the gfx card right away, i just asked for advice on which one to get.

 

[robisbell]

I advised you use the system for a while before getting a video card, and getting all the bugs worked out, before replacing the card.

 

[dclive]

Originally posted by: tkdromeo
I have a Best Buy card, that's why I want it from Best Buy - 0% financing Best Buy Vid Cards

Uh oh - financing a computer!?

Don't. Ever. They depreciate like a rock, and you're on the hock for the full amount.

There - that said... I'd get the essentially similar HP/Dell/Gateway versions for $600-$700 that are floating around every so often, maybe with a little less RAM but a much better deal. Add a stick of RAM and save $300-$500.

The 8400gs is nothing special for games - it's a low-end card. I wouldn't call this a gaming PC. As another poster said, stick in an 8800GT or similar card when you can for better gaming.

 

[robisbell]

I can not believe this, let me guess you'd buy new car and gut the motor for some over priced motor just because it's the latest and greatest. I see whose advice you listened to, the impulsive, reckless non-tech advice.

 

[tkdromeo]

I only did 6 months financing. And yes Robis, if i had the funds and i could spare to do so, i would. I had a 350z with an intake, ecu chip, short shifter, custom exhaust probably within 2 months of buying it. http://i29.photobucket.com/alb...ansamurai/DSC00030.jpg Now i have a maxima, I'm a little older, needed more room for the family.

I know i don't know much about computers Robis, and I understand i got myself into this. But, like I said, I'd replace the card almost right away. Otherwise there's little point to upgrading for me.

Thanks for the input Dclive, if I do return it, I'll follow your plan. I might give it to my parents (put the 8400 back in it if i can't get it to work with the 8800GT OC), they could use a computer, and just do what you said.

 

[robisbell]

you're what we call a person with poor impulse control, you think just because it's the newest thing, makes it better, I see people like you all the time, and you end up causing more problems than those that are patient and take things at a normal pace. '

you did not even attempt to use the PC, so how could you know what it could have done, enjoy your paperweight.

 

[dclive]

Originally posted by: robisbell
you're what we call a person with poor impulse control, you think just because it's the newest thing, makes it better, I see people like you all the time, and you end up causing more problems than those that are patient and take things at a normal pace. '

you did not even attempt to use the PC, so how could you know what it could have done, enjoy your paperweight.

I think that's going way overboard and is a bit negative to boot.

An 8400GS is a weak GPU. The day it was released it was underpowered. OP stated he had an ATI 1600. He had specific questions and asked if the 8400GS is faster, to which the answer, I think most would agree, is either "not really" or "barely". Someone can jump to Tom's Hardware for full stats / benches...but neither are fast.

Suggesting the purchase of the 8800GT is fully reasonable for someone asking for a 'gaming' PC and wondering about speed and wanting something faster than the ATI 1600 / 1650 GPU.

Comparing a GPU upgrade to a car upgrade is silly. The GPU upgrade takes 3-5 minutes and has a nearly 100% success rate, and due to the modular nature of Windows, very few problems. Doing garage repairs on your car yourself can take quite a bit more time.

 

[gorobei]

cpu= good for your 3d applications. 6850 is faster in current games, but quads should be better for future games. even the Q6600.
gpu= weak. may be good enough for 2d, might work for HL2, but won't cut it in dx10 games coming up and probably not in Hellgate. (i read the other posts, know you were going to upgrade.just wanted to be complete)
OS= 50%. vista and 3 GB ram should be ok for CS3/PS and DX10 gaming. BUT, vista DOESN'T do openGL natively at the moment. Maya and CAD will likely be faster with your old video card, the Q6600 and XP. the only 3d app that might work better with vista is 3dsMax, since it can also run on DX API.

Most non-supervisor level 3d artists build their own(or have another skint artist help them build it.) an overclocked 4x00 or even a 2x00 series intel C2D and the aforementioned 8800GT with comparable MB and drives should only run you $700. if you aren't the homebrew type, then yes buy from a box retailer. or better, a local build shop. if you must, HP has been better than Dell. Gateway has improved a lot and is probably closer to HP than Dell will get in terms of parts and service.

 

[dclive]

I wouldn't suggest building your own (for work use) to anyone (and don't suggest it for home use either - why bother, save SLI? And most don't need SLI these days...). Have you *seen* the forums here? They're filled with horror stories - and the ratio of whitebox to OEM is huge.

 

[robisbell]

DClive, then I guess you're a new kid on the block, us old timers have been around and seen the latest and greatest come out and people foolishly rush in and make for bigger headaches. as for my car analogy, it's a valid one, then again, from the way you assume problems without getting facts one can conclude that your time actually working and bulding computers is limited.

the golden rule a good tech follows is diagnose then fix, not fix and then try to find out the cause.

 

[dclive]

Originally posted by: robisbell
DClive, then I guess you're a new kid on the block,

No one familiar with my posting could possibly write that.

us old timers have been around and seen the latest and greatest come out and people foolishly rush in and make for bigger headaches.

I don't care how old you are. The driver is exactly the same. Aside from a wallet being several hundred $ lighter and far faster frame rates, please detail exactly what changes (headache?) he would experience.

as for my car analogy, it's a valid one, then again, from the way you assume problems without getting facts one can conclude that your time actually working and bulding computers is limited.

Obviously you didn't read my website....or my post re:cars. To compare changing an engine to putting in a new graphics card is absurd unless one believes putting in a graphics card is difficult, and I know you don't believe that.

the golden rule a good tech follows is diagnose then fix, not fix and then try to find out the cause.

I have no idea if you have a specific example here or not, but for this instance (helping someone find a better graphics card) clearly my comments were within his scope and appropriate for his interest level.

 

[robisbell]

"Obviously you didn't read my website....or my post re:cars. To compare changing an engine to putting in a new graphics card is absurd unless one believes putting in a graphics card is difficult, and I know you don't believe that."

well, in this case it's very difficult since he's bricked the system, voided the warranty, and maybe even bricked the new card. I stand by analogy. I will infer you've never had a system come in and be so small, or poorly designed that most video cards would not fit. I'm happy that you live in some computer tech nirvana, most of the real world ones have seen horror stories of botched video card installs.

"I have no idea if you have a specific example here or not, but for this instance (helping someone find a better graphics card) clearly my comments were within his scope and appropriate for his interest level."

like I said, a good tech follows the rule of diagnose and fix, you failed the golden rule by telling him to get the latest and greatest, and look where it got him, I on the other hand cautioned him to get used to the machine, do the necessary updates, and such before trying to replace the card, would have given him time to understand how it's put together and what it can and can't do. I know he's thankful to all of you that told him to replace the card without him really using the computer, I know him having it as a paperweight, makes him feel all good about your advice.

you keep fixing without diagnosing the problem, seems that is all you're good at.

 

[dclive]

Originally posted by: robisbell
"Obviously you didn't read my website....or my post re:cars. To compare changing an engine to putting in a new graphics card is absurd unless one believes putting in a graphics card is difficult, and I know you don't believe that."

well, in this case it's very difficult since he's bricked the system, voided the warranty, and maybe even bricked the new card. I stand by analogy. I will infer you've never had a system come in and be so small, or poorly designed that most video cards would not fit. I'm happy that you live in some computer tech nirvana, most of the real world ones have seen horror stories of botched video card installs.

"I have no idea if you have a specific example here or not, but for this instance (helping someone find a better graphics card) clearly my comments were within his scope and appropriate for his interest level."

like I said, a good tech follows the rule of diagnose and fix, you failed the golden rule by telling him to get the latest and greatest, and look where it got him, I on the other hand cautioned him to get used to the machine, do the necessary updates, and such before trying to replace the card, would have given him time to understand how it's put together and what it can and can't do. I know he's thankful to all of you that told him to replace the card without him really using the computer, I know him having it as a paperweight, makes him feel all good about your advice.

you keep fixing without diagnosing the problem, seems that is all you're good at.

You have quite a few posts today that have been very nasty. I'm glad I'm not the only one you're attacking.

 

[Soundmanred]

No you're not the only one. I don't doubt there's knowledge there, but there's also the "veteran/know it all/don't question me or I get rude" attitude that is definitely unnecessary. I just laugh people like that off however.

 

[MonKENy]

well here is the update on his rig

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...=2115093&enterthread=y

hes still having problems if you guys would still be willing to give advice. Im not super advanced and Im at my lists end on what to do.

put in a 8800 GT OC 512, broke a couple wires in the process, monitor would shut down after a min. Had him fix the broken wires and then get bigger PSU and swap out. says when he runs a game (hellgate london for example) still shuts down.

Please see if we are missing something, I cant figure what else might be wrong here. I say he should swap to a bigger case for what he has.