Help with 5.1 positioning

[Elcs]

Hello all,

As you may have noticed, I am rather new to the field of "Home Theatre Audio" and I am awaiting the arrival of my first researched and what may be considered low budget sound system, an Onkyo HT-S5105 Black.

Using my current 5.1 system as a sort of template, I have been trying to position my speakers correctly or optimally around my room with some success. As you might tell from the picture/video, my room is a total mess so until I get tidied up, my Subwoofer only has 1 fixed spot.

I have used the sticky and Dolby's tool to help visualise where my speakers should go and what I should do. I think I am most of the way there but I am looking to Anandtech for the final little tweaks I should make and test before my Onkyo arrives.

The Video: Here. Should help give you an idea of my room layour from where I sit. Yes, I am right up against the wall and sitting on my bed.

The Picture: Here. This should help with my speakers in front of me as there is a lot of black and the Video wasnt the best to spot them. I have highlighted the Front Left, Centre, Front Right and Receiver. No idea why I highlighted my Receiver but its highlighted

My Front Left and Front Right speakers are just a touch above ear level, my Left Surround is at shoulder level and Right Surround is at ear level. Centre is as highlighted.

If someone could give me some helpful pointers, I would be grateful.

 

[erwos]

No offense, but going audiophile on low budget speakers is pretty much a waste of time.

 

[Elcs]

Originally posted by: erwos
No offense, but going audiophile on low budget speakers is pretty much a waste of time.

Are you calling my current Creative Labs speakers low budget or the Onkyo set I am awaiting low budget?

I am using my Creative Labs set to get my positioning correct so that when my Onkyo set comes in, I know where to place them.

 

[sdifox]

err, any reason why the surrounds are not on the same level? You can go higher if that is what you need to make them same height. Otherwise panning will not work. I am a bit concerned about your centre too. Any problem with mounting the mains on the same level, either below tv or above tv?

 

[Elcs]

Originally posted by: sdifox
err, any reason why the surrounds are not on the same level? You can go higher if that is what you need to make them same height. Otherwise panning will not work. I am a bit concerned about your centre too. Any problem with mounting the mains on the same level, either below tv or above tv?

Surrounds are at different levels just because I moved some boxes yesterday doing a little tidying and though I might as well see what advice I got from here before fiddling again. That problem is easily solved.

Fronts and Centre...

I had my Fronts and Centre at Desk level and the sound wasnt fantastic. I had them attached to the top of my old TV (2 weeks ago) and the sound was the same. With the Fronts on the sides of the TV mid-way up they sound better....but as you say that leaves the Centre sort of in Limbo.

Above the TV would be a problem.... below is not a problem at all.

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: Elcs

Originally posted by: sdifox
err, any reason why the surrounds are not on the same level? You can go higher if that is what you need to make them same height. Otherwise panning will not work. I am a bit concerned about your centre too. Any problem with mounting the mains on the same level, either below tv or above tv?

Surrounds are at different levels just because I moved some boxes yesterday doing a little tidying and though I might as well see what advice I got from here before fiddling again. That problem is easily solved.

Fronts and Centre...

I had my Fronts and Centre at Desk level and the sound wasnt fantastic. I had them attached to the top of my old TV (2 weeks ago) and the sound was the same. With the Fronts on the sides of the TV mid-way up they sound better....but as you say that leaves the Centre sort of in Limbo.

Above the TV would be a problem.... below is not a problem at all.

did you do sound level calibration on both positions? And delay settings matter too.

 

[Elcs]

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: Elcs

Originally posted by: sdifox
err, any reason why the surrounds are not on the same level? You can go higher if that is what you need to make them same height. Otherwise panning will not work. I am a bit concerned about your centre too. Any problem with mounting the mains on the same level, either below tv or above tv?

Surrounds are at different levels just because I moved some boxes yesterday doing a little tidying and though I might as well see what advice I got from here before fiddling again. That problem is easily solved.

Fronts and Centre...

I had my Fronts and Centre at Desk level and the sound wasnt fantastic. I had them attached to the top of my old TV (2 weeks ago) and the sound was the same. With the Fronts on the sides of the TV mid-way up they sound better....but as you say that leaves the Centre sort of in Limbo.

Above the TV would be a problem.... below is not a problem at all.

did you do sound level calibration on both positions? And delay settings matter too.

Calibration? Yes of sorts with my ears and delay settings?

As explained, I am very new to this and I am not sure entirely what you mean.

 

[Tiamat]

Couch against the back wall is not good for acoustics period. If you have to sit here, then just know that this compromises the quality of your sound. Bass will be muddy due to being in a high energy zone, and dialog will be confused due to the reflections off of the back wall. You won't get much of a surround sound immersion either for the same reason. Speakers need space around them to minimize early reflections. As does the listening position.

Further, you want left-right symmetry. Without left-right symmetry you will compromise the image stability. This applies to both speaker setup and room wall setup.

For placement, these guys probably know best.

 

[Elcs]

Originally posted by: Tiamat
Couch against the back wall is not good for acoustics period. If you have to sit here, then just know that this compromises the quality of your sound. Bass will be muddy due to being in a high energy zone, and dialog will be confused due to the reflections off of the back wall. You won't get much of a surround sound immersion either for the same reason. Speakers need space around them to minimize early reflections. As does the listening position.

Further, you want left-right symmetry. Without left-right symmetry you will compromise the image stability. This applies to both speaker setup and room wall setup.

For placement, these guys probably know best.

Thanks Tiamat.

I am looking at moving foward but that makes thinks awkward. My room is far from perfect for this so Im tyrying to make the best out of what i have.

I can never have Left-Right Symmetry as my room is a sort of L shape but I maintain a Left-Right Symmetry with my speakers when possible. They are in a sort of transition phase hence the odd placement of my Right Surround compared to the Left Surround.

As stated in my first post, I already explored placement on the sticky which included the Dobly Speaker Setup tool. I was just looking for some specific advice for my own room, if any improvements should be or could be made.

Moving my Left and Right Front speakers to the sides of my TV at about head height and sitting on the edge of my bed (1m from the wall) have shown that even on a "poor" system like my Creative Labs one, there are benefits to be had by improving positioning.

Should surrounds be at head height or above?

 

[Tiamat]

Originally posted by: Elcs

Originally posted by: Tiamat
Couch against the back wall is not good for acoustics period. If you have to sit here, then just know that this compromises the quality of your sound. Bass will be muddy due to being in a high energy zone, and dialog will be confused due to the reflections off of the back wall. You won't get much of a surround sound immersion either for the same reason. Speakers need space around them to minimize early reflections. As does the listening position.

Further, you want left-right symmetry. Without left-right symmetry you will compromise the image stability. This applies to both speaker setup and room wall setup.

For placement, these guys probably know best.

Thanks Tiamat.

I am looking at moving foward but that makes thinks awkward. My room is far from perfect for this so Im tyrying to make the best out of what i have.

I can never have Left-Right Symmetry as my room is a sort of L shape but I maintain a Left-Right Symmetry with my speakers when possible. They are in a sort of transition phase hence the odd placement of my Right Surround compared to the Left Surround.

As stated in my first post, I already explored placement on the sticky which included the Dobly Speaker Setup tool. I was just looking for some specific advice for my own room, if any improvements should be or could be made.

Moving my Left and Right Front speakers to the sides of my TV at about head height and sitting on the edge of my bed (1m from the wall) have shown that even on a "poor" system like my Creative Labs one, there are benefits to be had by improving positioning.

Should surrounds be at head height or above?

I'll take a look at your video and pictures over the course of the next couple of days. My internet time is limited because I am with my family

In my experience, the biggest improvements occur if you can keep your listening position away from the wall and away from 1/4 fractions of the room's length. This type of adjustment helps to even out the bass within the room. Additionally, it will help with dialog intelligibility since your head would be farther from a hard surface (wall).

As you mentioned, positioning plays a big role. The room causes all levels of speakers to sound terrible if too many compromises are taken. By taking care of placement issues, you can really maximize the sound quality that your speakers can output. These learned improvements with placement are transferable to most other speakers so what you are doing now is certainly a good use of effort.


You want front speakers so that the tweeters (if any) are ±5° from ear level. Same height would be ideal across the front stage.

Rear speakers can be anywhere from ear level to 1' above ear level.

Sitting between 33%-38% of the room's length will help even out the bass. Closer to 38% is better. The right side of your system may sound quieter than the left since the left side is reinforced by a wall. You can try to play with this balance by setting the right side slightly louder than the left.

Where is your subwoofer placed? If you haven't done this already, place the subwoofer at your listening position and crawl around the room to find the best spot.

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: Elcs
Calibration? Yes of sorts with my ears and delay settings?

As explained, I am very new to this and I am not sure entirely what you mean.

Delay setting is just distance of all the speakers to your ears. You put those in as close to real distance as possible, that way the sound that is supposed to be 1 note does not sound like 5 because the delays are wrong.

Calibration is setting the volume level of all the speakers to be the same at your seating position.

 

[Elcs]

Originally posted by: Tiamat
I'll take a look at your video and pictures over the course of the next couple of days. My internet time is limited because I am with my family

In my experience, the biggest improvements occur if you can keep your listening position away from the wall and away from 1/4 fractions of the room's length. This type of adjustment helps to even out the bass within the room. Additionally, it will help with dialog intelligibility since your head would be farther from a hard surface (wall).

As you mentioned, positioning plays a big role. The room causes all levels of speakers to sound terrible if too many compromises are taken. By taking care of placement issues, you can really maximize the sound quality that your speakers can output. These learned improvements with placement are transferable to most other speakers so what you are doing now is certainly a good use of effort.


You want front speakers so that the tweeters (if any) are ±5° from ear level. Same height would be ideal across the front stage.

Rear speakers can be anywhere from ear level to 1' above ear level.

Sitting between 33%-38% of the room's length will help even out the bass. Closer to 38% is better. The right side of your system may sound quieter than the left since the left side is reinforced by a wall. You can try to play with this balance by setting the right side slightly louder than the left.

Where is your subwoofer placed? If you haven't done this already, place the subwoofer at your listening position and crawl around the room to find the best spot.

Im getting frustrated with the supplier I am getting my Onkyo HT-S5105 set from, they are taking too long so I thought I would fiddle around with positioning of my current speakers to see what improvements I can make.

Thanks for the help on the help on the speaker positioning. I'll aim for those optimum positions.

I'll be fiddiling with my seating postion too. If I can bring myself about 1m off the wall, things will be much better.

My subwoofer is currently under my desk, under where the receiver is. Unfortunately, it has to stay there for the foreseeable future due to space and untidy room problems. I will try your suggestion as soon as I get my set.

Thanks Tiamat