Help! This question is so basic I feel stupid.

[praetorius]

Hi,

A little background first:

I've never built a system myself. I just received a pre-built system which was SUPPOSED to have been set up to support RAID 1 (mirroring). But it was set up with RAID 0 (striping), which makes absolutely no sense on a 2-hard-drive system (effectively, RAID 0 just creates a bigger hard drive). The system is based on the Gigabyte GA-7DXR+ MB and uses Windows XP.

Anyway, I tried deleting the existing striped disk array (using the Promise FastBuild Configuration BIOS utility) and then creating a new mirror array (again using FastBuild). I tried the option which copies from one of the hard drives to another. I "assumed" (big mistake) my OS and everything else was on the master drive, and copied to the slave. When I tried rebooting, the system hung (and continues to hang on subsequent reboot attempts) at the point where "Verifying DMI Pool Data" is displayed during the boot sequence.

I tried going back to RAID 0, but the same hang occurs. So I'm assuming I wiped out my OS and everything else when I first tried setting up RAID 1.

So NOW I think what I should do is start from scratch: (1) Create a "new" (blank) RAID 1 array, (2) reformat the drives, (3) install Windows XP, (4) use the MB "Utility CD" to install MB drivers (including the RAID drivers), and finally (5) install the remaining device drivers and other software.

First and most important question (my dumb question): The MB manual, in describing how to create a new RAID 1 array, says at the end: "After configuring an array using FastBuild, you should FDISK and format the arrayed drives if you are using new, blank drives." So, um, how do I execute FDISK (and how do I use it to format the drives)? I realize this is basic stuff, but an amateur's GOT to start somewhere and the MB manual doesn't say how to execute FDISK.

Edit: New info. I tried using the system's "Restoration Disk" (a floppy disk that supposedly can be used to restore Windows). I was hoping that, perhaps, the FDISK utility was on this disk. Anyway, when I tried to boot using this floppy, I get: "Error #52 DMA Error".

Second question: Shouldn't there be software that was shipped with the hard drives (Seagate Barracudas)? No such separate software was included with the system. Would it be included on the MB Utility CD? Or is no additional hard drive software needed?

Finally, since the OS installation (and perhaps the installation of some of the MB drivers) precedes the RAID driver installation, how will the installed OS (and other drivers) get copied onto the mirrored HD?

Thanks for bearing with me!!

 

[brianp34]

you can run fdisk from a 98 boot disk among other things. just boot to the a:\ prompt and type fdisk.

brian

 

[Bglad]

First, when posting here, you always have to tell us what OS you are using.

1. In Win98, boot with a floppy and type FDISK as brian says. In Win2k/XP, booth with the CDROM and the installation will go through partitioning and formatting for you which is the same thing that FDISK does.

2. Hard drive software should be unnecessary in most cases. In some cases you may need something to solve a problem such as making a large hard drive show up on older equipment. If it isn't necessary, you don't want it. You may however need your RAID drivers, but this is for the RAID card, not the hard drive. If you are running Win2k/XP, as you start the load process, it will say "hit any key if you need to install third party RAID or SCSI drivers". You need to hit a key and put in a floppy with your RAID drivers.

3. Your RAID is installed on your mobo so it already has the hardware drivers it needs to work. Windows loads with default drivers. The drivers you install optimize Windows to work with your RAID card. Unless you are using 2k/XP which asks for them up front.

For win98

1. [/1] Create your stripe in the Promise bios.
   [/2] Fdisk with win98 floppy to create partition
   [/3] Reboot with floppy and format partitions
   [/4] Switch to CDROM in dos and run Windows setup OR reboot from CDROM
   [/5] Load RAID drivers in Windows
   
   For win2k/xp
   1. [/1] Create your stripe in the Promise bios.
      [/2] Boot to CDROM and hit a key to give it your RAID drivers
      [/3] It will then ask about partitioning and formatting (like FDISK)
      [/4] Load windows, you be done

 

[praetorius]

Thanks for your suggestions. I tried booting from the Windows XP CD. Before I did this, I used the Promise RAID utility to configure my two hard drives as two single-HD striping arrays. I figured that if I could then install Windows XP on one of the drives, I would be able to change to RAID 1 and copy over the boot drive's contents onto the other.

Unfortunately, Windows setup said it couldn't detect ANY hard drives on the system. Yet when I bring up the Promise RAID Utility, it says both hard drive arrays are functional.

The problem may be that on this motherboard there are two additional IDE controllers (IDE 3 and 4) specifically for RAID. Maybe Windows XP is only looking for hard drives that are configured as masters on IDE channels 1 and 2 (my CD-RW and DVD drives are configured as slaves on these two channels).

So, how do I get Windows XP to detect hard drives on IDE channels 3 and 4?

Edit: Oh, the computer DID come with special RAID drivers on a CD-ROM disk. Unfortunately, Windows setup wants the external drivers on Drive A. So I tried copying the IDE drivers from the CD-ROM disk to floppies (it took three to hold all the data), and then "offered" them to Windows XP setup when the drivers were requested. Windows XP rejected each of the floppies ("can't find txtsetup.oem").

 

[Bglad]

You need to go into the bios and set it to boot from the Promise controller.

Did you fdisk and format? Until you do both, the RAID controller will see the stripe but Windows will not recognize it. Did you pause Windows setup and give it the RAID drivers?

I'm having trouble understanding. Be very specific about what you did in XP and where it does not recognize and I can be more specific about answers.


I don't mean to throw another wrench into your plans but why do you want to do this? RAID is not the best security solution for home use. Most failures will happen due to virus, bad program installs, user error etc. In this case, you will have the same problem with both drives and will be left with no backup. A better solution would be to work with one drive and setup a backup schedule with DriveImage to backup drive A to drive B.

RAID 1 is really protection for servers that would go offline in case of a HD failure. These servers must keep still another backup offline.

 

[praetorius]

I followed the sequence you described in your previous post:

Used the Promise bios to create the RAID 1 mirror array (NOT a stripe).

Set up the BIOS to boot from CD-ROM.

Restarted the computer and "pressed any key" to boot from the CD-ROM (the Windows XP Pro Recovery CD [aka Windows XP OEM]).

Pressed PF6 when the WIndows CD asked if I wanted to load any special drivers.

After Windows setup loaded a whole bunch of stuff and asked if I had any special drivers, I pressed "S" as required.

Windows Setup told me to put the floppy with the drivers in Drive A.

I'd previously created the floppy TWO different ways:
(1) downloaded the specific IDE/RAID drivers for my particular MB from the Gigabyte web site
(2) copied the drivers off the "Motherboard Utility CD" that came with the MB

On my initial attempt, Windows setup couldn't find the "txtsetup.oem" file, so I copied this file on the Motherboard Utility CD and added it to both versions of the floppy.

When presented with either floppy, Windows setup (referring to the drivers as "SCSI" drivers) asked which one I wished to load (it offered four different names). Regardless of which one I selected, Windows setup came back with something like "error at line 18 when executing . . . .

So Windows setup couldn't continue. Without the floppy sequence, Windows setup says it can't detect any hard drives.

In your latest post you say to FDISK/format my drives first. From your previous post, I got the impression that the Windows setup procedure would ask me if I wanted to do this. Also, you indicate I should set up the bios to boot from the Promise controller, but I thought I needed to boot from the CD-ROM (to setup Windows).

Sorry I'm so clueless, and thanks for being so patient.

Yeah, I realize that RAID 1 isn't an ideal "security" solution. But at least it will protect me from disk crashes (and after reading about sooo many problems people have had with IBM drives, I just wanted to be careful [even though mine are Seagate drives]).

Even with a periodic backup, with "latent" viruses, it's quite possible that the backup ends up containing the same virus as the original. But, actually, I'd also planned to use a removable HD to do periodic backup.

 

[Bglad]

On my initial attempt, Windows setup couldn't find the "txtsetup.oem" file, so I copied this file on the Motherboard Utility CD and added it to both versions of the floppy.
I too remember getting this error. I copied the XP RAID driver folder (and only that folder) from my motherboard CD to an otherwise blank floppy. Then I made a 2nd copy of the .txt file and put it directly in a:. Then there was no problem finding it.

you say to FDISK/format my drives first. From your previous post, I got the impression that the Windows setup procedure would ask me if I wanted to do this
XP will do this for you but many people like to use FDISK for manual operation or to have the HD setup before they begin Windows setup. I was trying to explain all the options to help you get around problems. Thought maybe if you could get it setup first, maybe Windows would detect.

you indicate I should set up the bios to boot from the Promise controller, but I thought I needed to boot from the CD-ROM (to setup Windows).
Yes, you are right, I'm confusing you. You need to boot from CD to load Windows but then switch your bios to boot from RAID controller. If you don't switch, the mobo may try to boot from the primary IDE and give you a "boot device not found" error. Sorry to confuse you, I guess you haven't gotten this far yet.

Windows setup came back with something like "error at line 18 when executing
Unfortunately, I'm not sure what the problem is. Windows may be somehow getting SCSI drivers by mistake and therefore can't setup. However, sometimes Windows refers to these drivers generically as SCSI/RAID drivers and doesn't differentiate between the two. Regardless, it sounds like its not getting the right drivers. You are generally doing everything right, you'll have to keep trying until you figure out what step or driver is incorrect. Maybe someone else will see this and can offer further help.

One other suggestion. I think there is a way to add a mirror to a primary drive that is already in use. I think you can setup XP normally on one drive, then plug a second drive into the RAID controller and setup the mirror. I've never done it this way though. Take a look at your motherboard manual to see if you can do it this way. Now, I'm not sure if the primary can be setup on the regular IDE or if it has to be setup on the RAID controller. If it has to be setup on the RAID controller, this may not solve your driver issue. If you can setup on IDE 0 though, you won't have any of these driver setup issues. You can load XP normally, then let XP find the RAID controller drivers once it is setup.

Anyone else know what an error 18 is? Didn't come up on a search of MS.

 

[JustinLerner]

<< << Praetorius
. . .
I've never built a system myself. I just received a pre-built system which was SUPPOSED to have been set up to support RAID 1 (mirroring). But it was set up with RAID 0 (striping), which makes absolutely no sense on a 2-hard-drive system (effectively, RAID 0 just creates a bigger hard drive). . . >>

I won't get into the issue of resolving your problem, but I would like to comment on this part of your post!
Sorry to disagree, but RAID 0 (striping) really does make sense and is NOT just making a bigger hard drive. RAID level 0 is the fastest type of harddrive setup you can have. Fastest in IDE or SCSI, handsdown, with no other competition. What occurs in a stripe (which can only be enabled with harddrives on separate IDE controllers or on a SCSI bus) is that data (I/0) simultaneously is written OR read from both drives at the same time, depending upon the I/O action (and nearly simultaneously or tagged in SCSI). In other words, if using an Ultra 100 IDE bus and drives, maybe newer drives can maintain 'sustained' throughputs of 25MB/s, with busts up past 45MB/s on a bus that can handle 100MB/s. Setting both drives to write, read (RAID 0), allows you to theoretically double your drive throughput (assuming both drives are the same type, having the same operational charateristics). So on a RAID 0 setup, both drives together would theoretically deliver 50MB/s sustained throughput and burst up to 90MB/s on the 100MB/s bus. Theory is a little different from operation since there are other controller/data I/O overheads and latencies. (Latencies remain the same as for a single drive but throughput or bandwidth is significantly increased.)

 

[JustinLerner]

If you really want to use mirroring, then disable mirroring until after you install the OS.

This is the best and easiest way of resolving your situation, and I believe this is MS recommendations for installing their NT based OS'es where mirroring is used.