• We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.

Help support a democracy

K

KFCrispy

Member
Hello, I have written a petition to the US Administration asking it to recognize and support democracy and self-determination in Taiwan. I went to the Democratic National Convention with 3 friends to pass out information on Taiwan and get the petition signed, and we were only able to come up with 100. I may try to organize a group to try this at the Republican National Convention as well... but it is difficult to push for this, especially because it's neither a focus of Democrats nor Republicans. Yet America is ignoring and helping to suppress this very fundamental human right just because we want money and trade from China.

If you are true supporter of democracy, please sign the online petition and pass this along!

http://www.petitiononline.com/Taiwan
info on Taiwan: http://homepages.nyu.edu/~czc201/Taiwan_Brochure.pdf
 
Exactly what is American "ignoring"? And what's with the vague "true supporter of democracy" and human rights stuff?

Last I heard, Taiwan was a pretty vibrant democracy and China, while aiming missiles at it, wasn't doing much to interfere in its internal affairs. Is the US supposed to hold Taiwan's hand through this process?
 
Here I got one. Put a embargo/sanctions on China and watch *them* turn Democratic tomorrow after they are starved for US and global dollars and thier peoples are rioting in the streets... course we don't really want democracy there... Cheap slave labor is where it's at.... and RED CHINA gives it to wall street in spades.
 
Originally posted by: Dissipate
What is so great about democracy?
Click to expand...

You got a better solution lets here it.

Most people like the idea they have some input on thier affiars and like all the concepts democracy brings to the table...judicaial review...separation of powers..and the powers ultimatly derived for the people.
 
I support democracy in taiwan...but not if it comes to war with china.

No matter who 'wins' (has been debated for a long time), everyone loses, if you think vietnam and iraq were hard...oy...
 
Originally posted by: KFCrispy
Hello, I have written a petition to the US Administration asking it to recognize and support democracy and self-determination in Taiwan. I went to the Democratic National Convention with 3 friends to pass out information on Taiwan and get the petition signed, and we were only able to come up with 100. I may try to organize a group to try this at the Republican National Convention as well... but it is difficult to push for this, especially because it's neither a focus of Democrats nor Republicans. Yet America is ignoring and helping to suppress this very fundamental human right just because we want money and trade from China.

If you are true supporter of democracy, please sign the online petition and pass this along!

http://www.petitiononline.com/Taiwan
info on Taiwan: http://homepages.nyu.edu/~czc201/Taiwan_Brochure.pdf
Click to expand...

what is currently missing in Taiwan.

Do they have democracy? - I thought they recently had elections
Do they have the right for self determination? IF not, who is stopping them?
 
If we have someone like Raegan, maybe we can do the same thing with China like USSR.

I think if Taiwan ever wants to reunite, doing it with a non-communist state would be easier.

Or maybe another system, borrowed from USSR, Call it the Federation of Chinese States with China, Taiwan, Tibet, and Mongolia as equal partners.
 
Originally posted by: Stunt
I support democracy in taiwan...but not if it comes to war with china.

No matter who 'wins' (has been debated for a long time), everyone loses, if you think vietnam and iraq were hard...oy...
Click to expand...

When people talk about going to war with Taiwan against China, I don't think they're talking about an all out invasion of China.
 
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
what is currently missing in Taiwan.

Do they have democracy? - I thought they recently had elections
Do they have the right for self determination? IF not, who is stopping them?
Click to expand...

Taiwan has a democracy, yes. They do have the right to self-determination. Just after the elections, Bush told Taiwan not to declare independence. They're not stupid enough to simply declare independence, they want to negotiate with China to assure they can make a decision without the threat of an attack. China claims it will only negotiate if Taiwan accepts "One Country, Two Systems" - but then there will simply be nothing to negotiate.

While the US does supply arms to Taiwan under the Taiwan Relations Act, it does not support any movement towards independence, even rewriting most of the Constitution in Taiwan, which was written in China and talks about having representatives for Mongolia, all China's provinces, and Tibet.

the US is not recognizing Taiwan as a country (no official diplomatic ties) and under the One China Policy, it "acknowledges Taiwan is part of China" as well as "recognizes the PRC as the sole government of China".. these two sentences combined mean that the US thinks Taiwan is represented by the PRC.

I would like the US to stand up against China's bullying and say it does not acknowledge "Taiwan is part of China" any longer because Taiwan is a separate and sovereign nation.
 
Originally posted by: KFCrispy
I would like the US to stand up against China's bullying and say it does not acknowledge "Taiwan is part of China" any longer because Taiwan is a separate and sovereign nation.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that is probably never going to happen. Taiwan is far less important than China to the US. It would be nice if the entire world said that, but that's not realistic.
 
I would like the US to stand up against China's bullying and say it does not acknowledge "Taiwan is part of China" any longer because Taiwan is a separate and sovereign nation.
Click to expand...

We can't do that. It could possibly push the PRC into using a military option. That would not be good for anyone.
 
Yeah, but according to my taiwanese friends a lot of the government in Taiwan itself is sfull of corrupt individuals with gangs/mafia playing a heavy role in politics~ is that really a government we want to be supporting?

I remember reaidng an arguement here a while back between whether or not Taiwan belongs to China (it spanned several pageS) and while i don't remember the details I was convinced that Taiwan was a part of the People's Republic of China~

I think our desire to support them stems from the fact that they claim to be a demcracy whereas China are just communists...
 
Originally posted by: Zebo
Here I got one. Put a embargo/sanctions on China and watch *them* turn Democratic tomorrow after they are starved for US and global dollars and thier peoples are rioting in the streets... course we don't really want democracy there... Cheap slave labor is where it's at.... and RED CHINA gives it to wall street in spades.
Click to expand...

An emgargo and or sanctions would hurt us quite a bit, so it isn't really an option.
 
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Originally posted by: Stunt
I support democracy in taiwan...but not if it comes to war with china.

No matter who 'wins' (has been debated for a long time), everyone loses, if you think vietnam and iraq were hard...oy...
Click to expand...

When people talk about going to war with Taiwan against China, I don't think they're talking about an all out invasion of China.
Click to expand...

Perhaps not...but you can't really defend taiwan without an attack on Chinese air force, and naval bases. Once this is done, you definately have two countries at war.

If this situation happened...who would back who?...I assume other countries would take sides.

Russia, sanctioned Asian countries, NK, mid east would support China?
EU, Americas = Taiwan?
 
Originally posted by: Dissipate
What is so great about democracy?
Click to expand...
"Democracy is the worst form of government except for all those others that have been tried."
-Winston Churchill

As for placing an embargo on China, that would hurt us just as badly as it hurts China. For one, every single $1.00 Store in our country would have to move the decimal point in its sign. 99 cent stores would be particularly hard it. There'd be nothing left in them but two packs of rubber bands, a vast slection of used condoms, and Ann Coulter bulimic action figures.
 
China depends on the US just as much or more than the US depends on China. there is cheap labor in other places, anyway.

but that's not the point. the US of course expresses its willingness to do business with China, but it can also separate politics with economics. only when countries express their opinions instead of always complying to China will China have to change. many countries don't do it because the US is the world leader and doesn't support Taiwan's freedom itself.

if you think China is so irrational and is willing to go to war at any cost, why and HOW are we dealing with them? obviously the government on China is not stupid, and it's primary goal is not chaos and bickering over Taiwan. they want money as well, and the US and continue relations with China with or without Taiwan. but our own US ideals and morals should override this willingness to do whatever for money and thinking there's no way around it.

it's time for the US to draw its boundaries on what is China-US and Taiwan-US relations. China should not be telling the US or other places that it shouldn't deal with Taiwan, because it does not legitimately own Taiwan. if you want more proof over legality or history or whatever you want, look at the brochure (pdf document) i gave a link to at the top.

Taiwan having a voice in the world (referring to trying to get accepted into world organizations like WHO and UN) doesn't mean war. it's best if China and Taiwan can have peaceful negotiations, and they need help. China needs to be convinced it's only fair to do this, and one of the only people strong enough and idealistic enough to do it is the US.. -_-
 
Originally posted by: magomago
Yeah, but according to my taiwanese friends a lot of the government in Taiwan itself is sfull of corrupt individuals with gangs/mafia playing a heavy role in politics~ is that really a government we want to be supporting?

I remember reaidng an arguement here a while back between whether or not Taiwan belongs to China (it spanned several pageS) and while i don't remember the details I was convinced that Taiwan was a part of the People's Republic of China~

I think our desire to support them stems from the fact that they claim to be a demcracy whereas China are just communists...
Click to expand...

a lot of the past government officials were corrupt under the one-party Nationalist system. Back when the Nationalist party was in charge and didn't allow any other parties to exist, they were corrupt and even killed many Taiwanese people. They were also involved with Chinese gangs, even back when they were in China too. But now with the 3-4 parties they have, a democracy, there is less corruption because the people now have a voice on who they want as their officials.

But gangs still play a role in politics, because they're exploiting democracy by having their whole gang vote for them. They have gang leaders that have no criminal records because their underlings do all the crime for them, so they run for office and get the gangs to vote them in and pressure people to vote for them.

Taiwan now is a democratic country, not claiming to be one as before.
 
Originally posted by: KFCrispy
Hello, I have written a petition to the US Administration asking it to recognize and support democracy and self-determination in Taiwan. I went to the Democratic National Convention with 3 friends to pass out information on Taiwan and get the petition signed, and we were only able to come up with 100. I may try to organize a group to try this at the Republican National Convention as well... but it is difficult to push for this, especially because it's neither a focus of Democrats nor Republicans. Yet America is ignoring and helping to suppress this very fundamental human right just because we want money and trade from China.

If you are true supporter of democracy, please sign the online petition and pass this along!

http://www.petitiononline.com/Taiwan
info on Taiwan: http://homepages.nyu.edu/~czc201/Taiwan_Brochure.pdf
Click to expand...

Well, I am a Taiwanese and I am all for our right of self-determination. But what do you think you are going to accomplish by outright defying China right now.

You have to be realistic about the situation. Number one, no one country will fight the battle against China for us. If Taiwanese want freedom, we have to fight for it ourselves. I am not so sure everyone wants to risk the prosperity and the freedom we currently enjoy by starting a war with China. Especially when large percentage of Taiwanese business have factories and investments in China.

Number two, make no mistake, China will invade Taiwan if Taiwan seeks international support and declare independance. China has opened up recently in economic policies, but the current admin is still occupied by conservatives who can't wait for an excuse to invade Taiwan and unify China.

Number three, Taiwan has seen many political changes recently and that has weaken our national defense. Taiwan economy has not been doing well in recent years either and the military spending has been decreasing. On the other hand, China economy has been doing very well and their military spending has been increasing steadily.

Considering all these factors, it's probably wise to maintain the status quo and not do anything that will alarm Chinese government. An outright US statement on supporting Taiwan's right of self-determination will certainly make a huge impact. I don't know if it will be huge enough to start a war, but with American's involvement in Iraq and the war against terrorist, it is likely that China will think this is a good opportunity to solve Taiwan issue once and for all while American have other big concerns.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

TRENDING THREADS

Back
Top