HELP!..... nVidia GeForce 2 MX400 AGP 64MB SDR + Asus P3V4X = Disaster.... ack! =/

[seyton666]

hi. I need some advice. My Voodoo3 recently died on me after over 2 years of faithful service, and it came time to get a replacement, so I picked up a GF2MX 400 AGP to replace it. All was going well, until I couldn't boot properly. I did some troubleshooting, and it turned out to be the bus speed. I have a P3 600E, and with my old Voodoo3 I used to run it at 866MHz (144mhz bus). But now, I can only run it at 100MHz, or else the GF2 MX400 will crash consistently. I guess it can't support high frequency busses.

Another problem is that it keeps on crashing. I'm running Windows XP Pro, and the latest version of the detonator drivers from nVidia. 3DMark2001 crashes after about 2-3 minutes, and Quake 2 crashes at random intervals. When it crashes, the game/program that is currently running will just freeze and lock up, and on occasion Windows XP will regain enough control to display me a nice BSOD telling me nv4_disp is at fault. So I'm guessing it's the Video card that's unstable.

This is a brand new card, and I don't think there's anything at fault with the video card. I think it's an incompability problem between the motherboard and the video card. I have tried multiple motherboard settings (fast write, 1/2/4x agp, disabling the memory hole, changing the aperture size, etc..) but nothing really helps, so I was wondering what to do next? Should I try flashing a new BIOS? Getting some BETA drivers?

Any feedback would be appreciated.

Thanks.

- seyton

 

[Menacer]

Sounds like two problems. First, your second question:

The newest drivers on nVidia's site (the 23.11 Det4's) are having major problems, from what I've seen. Get rid of them.. they're what's causing your lockups. Go to www.3dchipset.com and pick up the 21.83 series. You'll be better off.

The first question's a bit harder, however. It sounds to me like your AGP divider is set to 1.5 instead of 2. (See, your AGP bus should be 66MHz.. so on a 100 FSB computer it divides that by 1.5, while on a 133 bus it divides by 2, depending on your chipset.) What kind of motherboard are you running? Are you using a 440BX chipset, or one of the i8xx chipsets? This will help in finding out what your problem is.

Also, overclocking your bus could very well be one of the reasons your Voodoo3 died (if you don't already have a culprit).. Running my AGP bus out of spec basically killed my V3-3500 6 months or so ago.

 

[Menacer]

Erk, wait.. P3-600E was only Slot 1, right? That would mean 440BX or the VIA Apollo of the time. And having 4x AGP means you're running a VIA chipset?

Does your board even have a 1/2 AGP divider?

 

[Rand]

<< Erk, wait.. P3-600E was only Slot 1, right? That would mean 440BX or the VIA Apollo of the time. And having 4x AGP means you're running a VIA chipset? >>



The Asus P3V4X is based upon the VIA Apollo Pro 133A chipset.
It is capable on AGP 4X, and it also supports a 1/2 AGP divider.
the PIII 600E was available in both Slot1 and FCPGA S370 packaging. The P3V4X is a Slot1 mainboard, which indicates his processor is likely a Slot1 variant though he may be using a Slot1 to S370 adapter card.



<< BSOD telling me nv4_disp is at fault. So I'm guessing it's the Video card that's unstable. >>



That immediately tells you the problem right there. It's not the video card itself that's unstable but the Detonator 4 driver set.
nVidia's Detonator drivers have a known bug in the display driver (nv4_disp) that causes it to go into an infinite loop sequence esstenially causing a BSOD.
It's supposedly due to the manner in which the Detonator driver series allocates main memory.

The nv4_disp infinite loop bug, is a very common problem on systems running WindowsXP and an nVidia graphics card. Using a VIA based motherboard seems to exacerbate the problem, though it is also occasionally seen on Intel, SiS, and ALi boards as well.

There is no real guaranteed "solution" to the problem yet. nVidia has been working on a fix for it since shortly after WinXP was released, but thus far without success. VIA has also been working on a fix, and some have experienced success in fixing the issue by using the VIA 4.36 4in1 drivers or later.
The best advice I can give you is to install the VIA 4in1 4.36 or later, drop to AGP 2X, and disable sidebanding and AGP Fast Writes if their presently enabled by your graphics card.
I would also suggest using the detonator drivers version 21.81 or 21.83 as they've been reported to experience the nv4_disp infinite loop bug much less frequently then the later nVidia Detonator drivers.
You might also consider using the older 12.XX series drivers as they tend to experience the issue relatively infrequently also.

As a last resort you could return the GF2 MX400 and get another brand of graphics card, as the infinite loop bug is pretty much an nVidia specific driver problem. Though I have heard of the extremely rare occurance of a smimilar problem with ATi cards, it's a seldom seen bug unless your using an nVidia + WinXP combo, and VIA boards seem to experience the problem more frequently then do other motherboards.

 

[Menacer]

Oops, my bad. Didn't read the topic all the way through (shows how lazy I am, eh?) to see the motherboard...

Ignore like, most of my post then.

 

[seyton666]

Hehe.

Yes, I'm running a FCPGA 370 600E with a FCPGA -> Slot 1 adaptor card. Actually, the reason why I think my Voodoo 3 finally called it quits wasn't because of the high FSB speeds, but rather because it, along with the rest of my computer, was thrown into the snow for 5 hours. It's a rather long story, but I think that has something to do with it Everything survived, except for the Voodoo 3 that is.

And now if I recall correctly, I researched my motherboard in depth before I purchased it. From what I recall, it uses a 2/3 AGP divisor if the FSB is <133 MHz, and 1/2 if it is >133MHz. So from running my bus at 144mhz, the Voodoo3 only suffered minor 'overclockage' Actually, I've ran it at every bus speed up to and including 148mhz, and it was perfectly stable. But then again, I didn't actually overclock the card itself (too lazy), so that's why it survived for so long. So right now, my MX400 is running within spec (66mhz bus).

Ah, yes, that would explain it perfectly. The system behaviour I experience when the 3d game I am playing crashes is characteristic with that of an infinite loop error. I will try the old nvidia drivers, actually, right now in fact I just got done downloading them at 7 kB/s... www.3dchipset.com is rather slow =P But, so far I've tried VIA's latest 4in1 drivers, along with their AGP 4.10 drivers, and that hasn't helped. I'll give the older drivers a try now and post a follow up in a bit.

Oh yes, another question. How good is nVidia with fixing these sorts of problems? Do they fix them rather quickly, or do they sometimes never do? I'm a first time nVidia buyer. Before, it was 3Dfx for me. But we all know what happened with 3dfx ;(

Thanks again.

- seyton

 

[seyton666]

I'm back, unfortunately

I tried the 21.81 drivers from www.3dchipsets.com, and they do not help at all unfortunately. I'll try the 12.XX drivers in a bit, but for now it's hopeless. I tried disabling fast writes, toggling between various AGP transfer speeds, etc and nothing helps. And when you said that a VIA chipset accelerates the frequency at which that error occurs... you weren't kidding. This happens instantly when I try to run Quake 2. It starts up, I go to the console, and maybe after 1-2 seconds it locks up, and I have to ctrl-alt-delete it and I return fine to windows. So I'm pretty sure it's a detonator problem, as plain old Windows runs fine on it (2D), and the video card itself doesn't lock up, but rather it gets into an infinite loop (I can get back into Windows after a 3d game crashes).

*sigh*

Well, if anyone can give me some other advice (besides the 12.XX drivers, I'll try those in a bit), I'll wait it out, or perhaps install Windows 2000 (I'd rather not). For now, I'm going to take a shower and head out to the gym. Thanks for all the help.

- seyton

 

[BFG10K]

nVidia's Detonator drivers have a known bug in the display driver (nv4_disp) that causes it to go into an infinite loop sequence esstenially causing a BSOD.

No, it's a problem with certain VIA motherboards which don't plug certain areas of memory like they're supposed to. It's a problem with the motherboard, not with nVidia drivers. If other vendors have the same problem (which I've never seen) then it's probably caused by something similar.

Make sure you have the latest 4-in-1s, the latest BIOS for your system and don't overclock anything. Also don't have your BIOS tweaked too aggressively.

 

[Mem]

Read this over at VIA arena forums,


<<
Message Text For:
Solution: Nv4_disp + Via (Infinite Loop, BSOD problem!)

This has worked on 3 computers now and counting...long post read on.

After reading the forums I came across one solution which involved replacing the Via tech CPU to Agp controller with the Standard PCI to Cpu controller. This brought stability to the system at the price of running your Geforce at 1x.

The solution and I applied it to both my
Asus P3V4X 600E@756mhz with a Geforce 2 GTS
and my Epox 8KHA+ Athlon XP 1600@1400mhz with a Geforce 3 TI 200 involved changing the AGP Driving value in both cases to DA and BA respectively. If your mobo supports it in the bios you can change it there from auto to manual and selecting DA or BA if not you need the following and sorry for the long cut and past.

Q. I have a VIA chipset based motherboard and I can't get AGP4X to work without causing instability. How can I fix it?

To enable AGP4X on VIA chipset based motherboards, see the 'How can I enable AGP4X in the Detonator 5.16+ driver sets on my VIA 133mhz chipset motherboard?' question.
The following instructions were provided by Gary Shapiro :
Check your BIOS setup, usually in the Chipset Features Setup, for something called the AGP Driving Value. This value controls the timing of the AGP driver in Windows. The value you place here can make AGP4X stable. This value is a hex value from 00-FF.
In order to place a value here you might need to change another BIOS setup feature called the AGP Driving Control. This should appear with the AGP Driving Value. Set this to MANUAL if not already. The other option is AUTO.
Try setting this value to DA or EA. Try DA for a VIA Apollo Pro 133A motherboard. On a KT133 motherboard you might want to try E7.
Save your options and reboot your machine. Make sure you are running AGP4X and try some 3D games. Where they might have hung or crashed before they should now be running fine. If not, then go back into the BIOS Setup and try another value. I've found that values that end in an 'A' seem to work the best.
If your BIOS Setup does not have the AGP Driving Value option, there are two programs on the Web that let you modify your BIOS and change this value manually to any value. These programs are called WPCREDIT and WPCRSET. You can find them at the following website:

WPCREDIT is used to modify the BIOS on the fly. Any value changed will disappear after you do a cold reboot of your machine. WPCRSET is designed to make the change each time Windows starts up.
I recommend that you use WPCREDIT to try different values and when you get one working use WPCRSET to make in 'permanent'. Keep in mind that a 'wrong' value might cause you to hang or have a corrupted display. You might have to reboot. You might want to use WPCREDIT even though your BIOS Setup has the AGP Driving Value. This might be easier as far as testing goes. Once you get a 'good' value then you can change it in your BIOS Setup without even using WPCRSET.
Go to the following website for detailed instructions on how to use these programs:

Once you read the article and are familiar with modifying your BIOS then changing the AGP Driving Value is simple. The Driving Value is located at x'B1'. That's offset Hex, Baker One. Place a DA or EA or any other value that you might want to try here. Once you save the change it takes effect immediately. If it does work for you then you can change your BIOS Setup or use WPCRSET.

Hope this helps. >>



Here`s the
link .

 

[Rand]

<< nVidia's Detonator drivers have a known bug in the display driver (nv4_disp) that causes it to go into an infinite loop sequence esstenially causing a BSOD.

No, it's a problem with certain VIA motherboards which don't plug certain areas of memory like they're supposed to. It's a problem with the motherboard, not with nVidia drivers. If other vendors have the same problem (which I've never seen) then it's probably caused by something similar.

Make sure you have the latest 4-in-1s, the latest BIOS for your system and don't overclock anything. Also don't have your BIOS tweaked too aggressively. >>



Indeed, other vendors do have similar problems with the nv4_disp infinite loop bug, though it appears more frequently with VIA solutions.
Also, many nVidia board manufacturers, Hercules among which have concluded that it's due to a memory allocation issue with the nVidia Detonator driver series.

 

[seyton666]

Ok, here's an update:

I got it stable, as far as I know. I'm able to overclock my system now as well.

What I did, was change my Motherboard registry setting @ B1h to 'EA' (AGP Amplification thingy or whatever), and change the AGP speed to 1x, as well as disabling fast writes. It's stable as far as I can tell (I've been messing around in q2 for 30 mins now, and ran several 3DMark2001 tests). Oh yeah, I got a 3D Mark of 2700.. which is pretty bad I take it? My system is clcoked at 830MHz, and the GF2MX400 is running at 220/375.

I think this will do for now. I also have a question; is this an XP issue, or just a general VIA/nVidia related issue? For example, if I were to say revert back to Windows 2000, would I experience this instability at all, even at AGP 4x?

Oh, and also, is there a big performance loss running the GF2MX @ 1x AGP w/o fast write? LMK.

Thanks.

- seyton

 

[Rand]

<< Ok, here's an update:

I got it stable, as far as I know. I'm able to overclock my system now as well.

What I did, was change my Motherboard registry setting @ B1h to 'EA' (AGP Amplification thingy or whatever), and change the AGP speed to 1x, as well as disabling fast writes. It's stable as far as I can tell (I've been messing around in q2 for 30 mins now, and ran several 3DMark2001 tests). Oh yeah, I got a 3D Mark of 2700.. which is pretty bad I take it? My system is clcoked at 830MHz, and the GF2MX400 is running at 220/375.

I think this will do for now. I also have a question; is this an XP issue, or just a general VIA/nVidia related issue? For example, if I were to say revert back to Windows 2000, would I experience this instability at all, even at AGP 4x?

Oh, and also, is there a big performance loss running the GF2MX @ 1x AGP w/o fast write? LMK.

Thanks.

- seyton >>



It pretty much only happens under WinXP, I have heard of the extremely rare occurance of it happening under Win2000 but it primarily only seems to happen when your using an nVidia board with WinXP.

I had the problem myself initially, but luckily I managed to solve it simply by using the 21.81 driver set, I didnt have to change anything else.
For a PIII at 866MHz and a GF2 MX400 scoring 2700 on 3DMark 2001 isnt a bad score at all, in fact it's a very good score for your system.



<< Oh, and also, is there a big performance loss running the GF2MX @ 1x AGP w/o fast write? >>



Disabling FW is fine, in fact most people generally disable it even if their not having stability issues as it seems to impact reliability and doesnt provide any gain at all to performance.
Dropping to AGP 1X will have about a 5-8% performance hit in most cases, certainly not ideal but it's not too bad. See if you can get it to run stable at AGP 2X, as that will offer 99.9% of the performance of AGP 4X.