help me with this inductive proving

z0mb13

Lifer
May 19, 2002
18,106
1
76
I am helping my friend with this problem, no its not my HW..

I forgot how to do inductive proving

prove this:

lg (n+1) <= 1 + lg(n) for n >=1

Thanks
 

raptor13

Golden Member
Oct 9, 1999
1,719
0
76
You do mean that as log and not natural log, right? In either case, you first do the basis step by setting n = 1 and showing the statement is valid. Then you do the induction step by assuming the statement is true for some n, then substituting n + 1 for n, and showing the statement is still valid. By doing so, you've shown the statement is true for n and it implies the statement is true for n + 1 and thus is true for any number n.

That's induction for you.
 

z0mb13

Lifer
May 19, 2002
18,106
1
76
Originally posted by: raptor13
You do mean that as log and not natural log, right? In either case, you first do the basis step by setting n = 1 and showing the statement is valid. Then you do the induction step by assuming the statement is true for some n, then substituting n + 1 for n, and showing the statement is still valid. By doing so, you've shown the statement is true for n and it implies the statement is true for n + 1 and thus is true for any number n.

That's induction for you.

oh yeah I remember this...

hm ok so the base case is EZ:
lg (n+1) <= 1 + lg(n)
lg((n+1)/n) <= 1
ln 2 <= 1

then the n+1 part kinda confuses me
lg((n+2)/(n+1)) <= 1

how do u do the induction from here?
 

raptor13

Golden Member
Oct 9, 1999
1,719
0
76
Originally posted by: z0mb13
Originally posted by: raptor13
You do mean that as log and not natural log, right? In either case, you first do the basis step by setting n = 1 and showing the statement is valid. Then you do the induction step by assuming the statement is true for some n, then substituting n + 1 for n, and showing the statement is still valid. By doing so, you've shown the statement is true for n and it implies the statement is true for n + 1 and thus is true for any number n.

That's induction for you.

oh yeah I remember this...

hm ok so the base case is EZ:
lg (n+1) <= 1 + lg(n)
lg((n+1)/n) <= 1
ln 2 <= 1

then the n+1 part kinda confuses me
lg((n+2)/(n+1)) <= 1

how do u do the induction from here?

You inserted n+1 properly but you're making the algebra much harder than it needs to be. After inserting n+1 but doing nothing else, you have:

log(n+2) <= 1 + log(n+1)

To rid yourself of the logs, take 10^(log(n+2)) <= 10^1 + 10^(log(n+1)) giving you:

n + 2 <= 10 + n + 1

Subtracting n from both sides, you have

2 <= 11

That is obviously always true and, since it is true for any and all n, the statement is valid for any n >= 1.



As I said, you can do the algebra your way by subtracting the log(n+1) and incorporting that into the log(n+2) term. Using partial fractions, you could rewrite it and solve it that way. Or you could take the limit at n->infinity. Taking the limit ruins the induction, however, though it would still weakly prove the statement.

 

z0mb13

Lifer
May 19, 2002
18,106
1
76
Originally posted by: raptor13
Originally posted by: z0mb13
Originally posted by: raptor13
You do mean that as log and not natural log, right? In either case, you first do the basis step by setting n = 1 and showing the statement is valid. Then you do the induction step by assuming the statement is true for some n, then substituting n + 1 for n, and showing the statement is still valid. By doing so, you've shown the statement is true for n and it implies the statement is true for n + 1 and thus is true for any number n.

That's induction for you.

oh yeah I remember this...

hm ok so the base case is EZ:
lg (n+1) <= 1 + lg(n)
lg((n+1)/n) <= 1
ln 2 <= 1

then the n+1 part kinda confuses me
lg((n+2)/(n+1)) <= 1

how do u do the induction from here?

You inserted n+1 properly but you're making the algebra much harder than it needs to be. After inserting n+1 but doing nothing else, you have:

log(n+2) <= 1 + log(n+1)

To rid yourself of the logs, take 10^(log(n+2)) <= 10^1 + 10^(log(n+1)) giving you:

n + 2 <= 10 + n + 1

Subtracting n from both sides, you have

2 <= 11

That is obviously always true and, since it is true for any and all n, the statement is valid for any n >= 1.



As I said, you can do the algebra your way by subtracting the log(n+1) and incorporting that into the log(n+2) term. Using partial fractions, you could rewrite it and solve it that way. Or you could take the limit at n->infinity. Taking the limit ruins the induction, however, though it would still weakly prove the statement.

thank you! :)