Help me with legal stuff

[SinNisTeR]

My friend and I came up with an idea for a website to provide a service. Should we Patent the idea, copyright it and form an LLC? Is that the best way to protect out idea? I've looked at the patent database and can't find anything like it there. I've searched online and nothing! What are the safe steps to take when venturing in something like this? Thanks for the replies.

 

[tm37]

What is the idea?

 

[bsobel]

Originally posted by: SinNisTeR
My friend and I came up with an idea for a website to provide a service. Should we Patent the idea, copyright it and form an LLC? Is that the best way to protect out idea? I've looked at the patent database and can't find anything like it there. I've searched online and nothing! What are the safe steps to take when venturing in something like this? Thanks for the replies.

It is possible to patent a business model (which, from what you've posted, I'm guessing this is). The fact that their is not a prior patent really means nothing. The test is if the invention is usefull and novel. If an existing person, company, etc did this publically in the past that would be considered prior art and show that the invention itself is not novel. Bear in mind that you're likely to spend at least 20k and it will take probably (currently) 4.5-6 years for the patent to grant it issues.

A copyright would be used to protect the look and feel of your service, not the 'invention' of it.

The LLC is a business vehicle to manage ownership between you and your friend.

Without a lot more information, it's gonna be hard to give you more advice than that. Your welcome to PM me if you seriously want comments on the idea (I've been thru the patent process many times).

Bill

 

[NogginBoink]

You can neither copyright nor patent an idea. (Hey! I've got a great idea! Let's build a combination gas station/convenience store on the corner of a busy intersection!)

The best way to protect it is to implement it then patent any processes that are unique to your business. If there are no unique processes to your business, then you're free to do battle in the open market of capitalism.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Copyright the idea?

The best way to protect your idea is to write it down on a page of A4 and send it to yourself via registered mail. Or you could ask a law firm to keep the unopened envelope in their vault or files or whatever and mark it by an official date stamp. It's all very gestapo, but these are two popular ways of copyrighting an idea.

 

[helloedchen]

If you were allowed to patent an idea or service, Yahoo, Gmail, Hotmail would all be fighting and killing each other in court.

 

[RedCOMET]

Originally posted by: Nik
Copyright the idea?

The best way to protect your idea is to write it down on a page of A4 and send it to yourself via registered mail. Or you could ask a law firm to keep the unopened envelope in their vault or files or whatever and mark it by an official date stamp. It's all very gestapo, but these are two popular ways of copyrighting an idea.

How does that help you? I don't understand.

 

[bsobel]

Originally posted by: NogginBoink
You can neither ....nor patent an idea.

You must certainly can. You must show how one skilled in the art can impliment the idea (and pass the usefullness and novelty tests)

 

[bsobel]

Originally posted by: GideonX
If you were allowed to patent an idea or service, Yahoo, Gmail, Hotmail would all be fighting and killing each other in court.

Again, you certainly can. For example, the famous Amazon one click purchase patent.

Your comment on Yahoo, Gmail, and Hotmail seems to suggest they should have patented web based email. There was plenty of prior art at the time those services were created. That said, all of those companines have signifigant patent porttfolios and continue to innovate and expand them.

Bill

 

[SinNisTeR]

I really can't disclose too much about it. It's a service that we would provide, and we would patent the process, I guess. Heck, amazon owns the patent for "one click shopping" or something like it. I think I can copyright the look and feel of the website and it's implementation. Right now I have a prototype of the software but its not integrated for web purposes. I coded all of it in java, now i just have to make it usable on the web, jsp? I just want some way of securing the idea and software.

 

[bsobel]

Originally posted by: Nik
Copyright the idea? The best way to protect your idea is to write it down on a page of A4 and send it to yourself via registered mail. Or you could ask a law firm to keep the unopened envelope in their vault or files or whatever and mark it by an official date stamp. It's all very gestapo, but these are two popular ways of copyrighting an idea.

As posted (correctly) you can can not copyright and idea. The idea your posting deals with comon law copyrights and a way to prove the creation date of something. It's typicall done when someone want to prove they create say a work of liteture, music, etc without the formal submission and copyright process.

Bill

 

[helloedchen]

Originally posted by: bsobel

Originally posted by: GideonX
If you were allowed to patent an idea or service, Yahoo, Gmail, Hotmail would all be fighting and killing each other in court.

Again, you certainly can. For example, the famous Amazon one click purchase patent.

Your comment on Yahoo, Gmail, and Hotmail seems to suggest they should have patented web based email. There was plenty of prior art at the time those services were created. That said, all of those companines have signifigant patent porttfolios and continue to innovate and expand them.

Bill

That then falls under the unique part of the business (1-click purchase).

If yahoo or gmail created something unique within their webmail system, then by all means they can protect it.

Since the OP hasn't provided too much info, can't exactly tell so I'll say no for now.

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: GideonX

Originally posted by: bsobel

Originally posted by: GideonX
If you were allowed to patent an idea or service, Yahoo, Gmail, Hotmail would all be fighting and killing each other in court.

Again, you certainly can. For example, the famous Amazon one click purchase patent.

Your comment on Yahoo, Gmail, and Hotmail seems to suggest they should have patented web based email. There was plenty of prior art at the time those services were created. That said, all of those companines have signifigant patent porttfolios and continue to innovate and expand them.

Bill

That then falls under the unique part of the business (1-click purchase).

If yahoo or gmail created something unique within their webmail system, then by all means they can protect it.

Since the OP hasn't provided too much info, can't exactly tell so I'll say no for now.

unique part of business? uniqueness is one of 3 main criteria that *all* have to be fulfilled... am i misunderstanding you? yahoo and gmail would have to have something unique, useful, and non-obvious.

 

[SinNisTeR]

I know it is something that can be protected. My question i guess is what is the proper order of operation? Do I form an LLC first, trademark the company name, patent the idea, and copyright the website?

 

[helloedchen]

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: GideonX

Originally posted by: bsobel

Originally posted by: GideonX
If you were allowed to patent an idea or service, Yahoo, Gmail, Hotmail would all be fighting and killing each other in court.

Again, you certainly can. For example, the famous Amazon one click purchase patent.

Your comment on Yahoo, Gmail, and Hotmail seems to suggest they should have patented web based email. There was plenty of prior art at the time those services were created. That said, all of those companines have signifigant patent porttfolios and continue to innovate and expand them.

Bill

That then falls under the unique part of the business (1-click purchase).

If yahoo or gmail created something unique within their webmail system, then by all means they can protect it.

Since the OP hasn't provided too much info, can't exactly tell so I'll say no for now.

unique part of business? uniqueness is one of 3 main criteria that *all* have to be fulfilled... am i misunderstanding you? yahoo and gmail would have to have something unique, useful, and non-obvious.

Unique, yes, a process they first started in the online retailer business.

If I had an online fish store, among the many others, and I somehow found a special way to ship my fish to the customer. I can patent the idea or whatever people do to protect their ideas, and fight anyone who tries to copy it. Just like Amazon did with their 1-click ordering process.

Yahoo and gmail both don't exactly have anything unique. Both are web based, 1GB of space, blah blah blah. Now if Gmail comes out with a spam blocker that finds out who sent it and gives you their home address, then that's a unique feature to Gmail, which I'm sure they'll protect and so on. Hope that made better sense.