Help me to understand McCains health care plan.

[techs]

I'm a little uncertain. Does McCain want to tax everyones health care benefits, then give individuals a credit of 2,500 and families a credit of 5,000? Then consider the credit income, and tax it?
I admit it is pretty difficult to understand, but as near as I can tell, while the amounts may be somewhat acceptable today, for some people, as health care costs increase most people will soon lose money?
Basically, can someone explain this plan which seems wickedly and unecessarily complicated?

 

[nageov3t]

republican heathcare plan: cross your fingers.

 

[Demo24]

Thats how I understand it. Seems rather dumb and unnecessary, but the idea of 'free' money to the people with out telling them the details has probably won over the people voting for him anyway.

 

[winnar111]

Your health plan is worth $10k.

You pay income taxes on this, say $2500.

You get a $5k credit, thus eliminating the above $2500 and reducing your income taxes even further.

If you don't have a health insurance plan, you get the $5k anyway, so your over the market plan is $5k cheaper.

What's rather curious is that young, single, healthy people win out, and that's the majority of this forum.

The losers are rich people who pay a high marginal tax rate and union workers with unnecessarily expensive health care plans.

 

[JS80]

democrat healthcare plan:

1) plant magic beans
2) grow new doctors and nurses
3) grow money trees

Require insurance companies to cover pre-existing conditions so all Americans regardless of their health status or history can get comprehensive benefits at fair and stable premiums.

Everyone's premium goes up.

Lower costs for businesses by covering a portion of the catastrophic health costs they pay in return for lower premiums for employees.

Euphemism for government subsidy, paid for by the taxpayer.

Prevent insurers from overcharging doctors for their malpractice insurance and invest in proven strategies to reduce preventable medical errors.

Price controls - malpractice insurance becomes scarce, doctors practice less

Make employer contributions more fair by requiring large employers that do not offer coverage or make a meaningful contribution to the cost of quality health coverage for their employees to contribute a percentage of payroll toward the costs of their employees health care.

This will inevitably come out of workers' pockets.
Higher demand => higher prices for everyone else in status quo.
Higher demand => current health infrastructure will have even higher burden.

Establish a National Health Insurance Exchange with a range of private insurance options as well as a new public plan based on benefits available to members of Congress that will allow individuals and small businesses to buy affordable health coverage.

Yet another subsidy by the taxpayer.

Lower drug costs by allowing the importation of safe medicines from other developed countries, increasing the use of generic drugs in public programs and taking on drug companies that block cheaper generic medicines from the market

Short term fix, long term - innovation goes overseas.

A Commitment to Fiscal Responsibility: Barack Obama will pay for his $50 - $65 billion health care reform effort by rolling back the Bush tax cuts for Americans earning more than $250,000 per year and retaining the estate tax at its 2009 level.

$65 billion? HAHA.

 

[bamacre]

I'm not listening to anyone's solution until they first tell me why we have a problem in the first place.

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: bamacre
I'm not listening to anyone's solution until they first tell me why we have a problem in the first place.

Medicare.

 

[IronWing]

Originally posted by: JS80
democrat healthcare plan:

1) plant magic beans
2) grow new doctors and nurses
3) grow money trees

Require insurance companies to cover pre-existing conditions so all Americans regardless of their health status or history can get comprehensive benefits at fair and stable premiums.

Everyone's premium goes up.

Lower costs for businesses by covering a portion of the catastrophic health costs they pay in return for lower premiums for employees.

Euphemism for government subsidy, paid for by the taxpayer.

Prevent insurers from overcharging doctors for their malpractice insurance and invest in proven strategies to reduce preventable medical errors.

Price controls - malpractice insurance becomes scarce, doctors practice less

Make employer contributions more fair by requiring large employers that do not offer coverage or make a meaningful contribution to the cost of quality health coverage for their employees to contribute a percentage of payroll toward the costs of their employees health care.

This will inevitably come out of workers' pockets.
Higher demand => higher prices for everyone else in status quo.
Higher demand => current health infrastructure will have even higher burden.

Establish a National Health Insurance Exchange with a range of private insurance options as well as a new public plan based on benefits available to members of Congress that will allow individuals and small businesses to buy affordable health coverage.

Yet another subsidy by the taxpayer.

Lower drug costs by allowing the importation of safe medicines from other developed countries, increasing the use of generic drugs in public programs and taking on drug companies that block cheaper generic medicines from the market

Short term fix, long term - innovation goes overseas.

A Commitment to Fiscal Responsibility: Barack Obama will pay for his $50 - $65 billion health care reform effort by rolling back the Bush tax cuts for Americans earning more than $250,000 per year and retaining the estate tax at its 2009 level.

$65 billion? HAHA.

It is a stupid, needlessly complex plan, much like the current system. We aught to cut out the private insurance industry all together and go straight to a single payer system.

 

[IronWing]

Originally posted by: bamacre
I'm not listening to anyone's solution until they first tell me why we have a problem in the first place.

Greed.

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

Insurance is one helluva a deal. What else do people pay for and are deathly afraid to use it?

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: ironwing

Originally posted by: JS80
democrat healthcare plan:

1) plant magic beans
2) grow new doctors and nurses
3) grow money trees

Require insurance companies to cover pre-existing conditions so all Americans regardless of their health status or history can get comprehensive benefits at fair and stable premiums.

Everyone's premium goes up.

Lower costs for businesses by covering a portion of the catastrophic health costs they pay in return for lower premiums for employees.

Euphemism for government subsidy, paid for by the taxpayer.

Prevent insurers from overcharging doctors for their malpractice insurance and invest in proven strategies to reduce preventable medical errors.

Price controls - malpractice insurance becomes scarce, doctors practice less

Make employer contributions more fair by requiring large employers that do not offer coverage or make a meaningful contribution to the cost of quality health coverage for their employees to contribute a percentage of payroll toward the costs of their employees health care.

This will inevitably come out of workers' pockets.
Higher demand => higher prices for everyone else in status quo.
Higher demand => current health infrastructure will have even higher burden.

Establish a National Health Insurance Exchange with a range of private insurance options as well as a new public plan based on benefits available to members of Congress that will allow individuals and small businesses to buy affordable health coverage.

Yet another subsidy by the taxpayer.

Lower drug costs by allowing the importation of safe medicines from other developed countries, increasing the use of generic drugs in public programs and taking on drug companies that block cheaper generic medicines from the market

Short term fix, long term - innovation goes overseas.

A Commitment to Fiscal Responsibility: Barack Obama will pay for his $50 - $65 billion health care reform effort by rolling back the Bush tax cuts for Americans earning more than $250,000 per year and retaining the estate tax at its 2009 level.

$65 billion? HAHA.

It is a stupid, needlessly complex plan, much like the current system. We aught to cut out the private insurance industry all together and go straight to a single payer system.

I have a better idea. Why not put in place economic incentives to increase the current healthcare infrastructure? Charge the AMA with RICO, bust the monopoly, increase number of medical schools, DIVERT scholarships to field of medicine, REORGANIZE the medical ladder, BUST the old money trust and monopoly that is holding the current medical field hostage.

If you increase the number of doctors in the market, prices will naturally come down and more people will be insured.

 

[IronWing]

Originally posted by: JS80

I have a better idea. Why not put in place economic incentives to increase the current healthcare infrastructure? Charge the AMA with RICO, bust the monopoly, increase number of medical schools, DIVERT scholarships to field of medicine, REORGANIZE the medical ladder, BUST the old money trust and monopoly that is holding the current medical field hostage.

If you increase the number of doctors in the market, prices will naturally come down and more people will be insured.

Busting the monopoly is a very good idea. Doctors' economic clout is not based on special skills or knowledge as much as it is based on their monopoly on access to drugs.

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: JS80

If you increase the number of doctors in the market, prices will naturally come down and more people will be insured.

I don't know how long the supply of doctors will increase, though. Their pay is getting slashed and has been over the last 15 years.

2 members of my family are dermatologists. They don't accept Medicare/caid because the pay sucks.

 

[Ferocious]

The $5000 credit goes to the insurance provider.

factcheck

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: JS80

If you increase the number of doctors in the market, prices will naturally come down and more people will be insured.

I don't know how long the supply of doctors will increase, though. Their pay is getting slashed and has been over the last 15 years.

2 members of my family are dermatologists. They don't accept Medicare/caid because the pay sucks.

This is the problem. Doctors are gravitating towards cosmetic medicine because those are cash businesses. We have to reorganize the system in conjunction with increasing the supply of doctors.

Cost of medical school + opportunity costs + low intern/resident wages = only rich people go into medicine. There are plenty of talented individuals that don't even consider medicine because of the time it takes to make a living. You're going to have a lot of talent coming out of college looking for new field to enter now that get rich quick Wall st jobs are gone. Why not incentivize them to go into medicine?

 

[JS80]

Create a new class of "doctors" to take care of colds, simple shit. Something in between RN and MD. Fund new urgent care centers, no insurance needed. Pay $40 get the fuck out. Even illegals can afford $40, free up the emergency room.

 

[Ferocious]

One can think of McCain's healthcare plan as a tax INCREASE on middle class America.

If the Dems can drive this point home in the coming weeks, Obama might win in a landslide.

 

[Jeff7]

I think high prices of malpractice insurance also factor into this. I've read that that can influence doctors to move out of a certain region, or even country, because the cost of that insurance is just too high.

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: Ferocious
The $5000 credit goes to the insurance provider.

factcheck

On behalf of the individual/family, thus reducing their insurance bill by $5000. Why does this matter?

 

[Carmen813]

Critique of OBama plan
http://content.healthaffairs.o.../hlthaff.27.6.w462/DC1

Critique of McCain plan

http://content.healthaffairs.o.../hlthaff.27.6.w472/DC1

They also offer their own plan, as well as rebuttals.

The reason McCains plan is dangerous is because most independent groups estimate it will cost 5 to 20 million people to lose their health insurance. Obama's plans major weakness is it's cost, but it's virtually unanimous that it will cause a serious dent in the amount of people without coverage (~30 million gain coverage.)

McCains plan will cost the government 1.3 trillion dollars over 10 years, Obama's is estimated to cost 1.6 trillion.


The biggest problem is that, as the old saying goes, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. McCain's plan will most likely drive up costs tremendously in the long run because people will have less coverage, and many people will lose it completely. A large portion of our health industry costs come from hospitals having to covered the uninsured.
Some will argue that they do not want government bureaucracy in he way of their health insurance. I call them naive, anyone who has had to deal with health insurance organizations as much as I have (cancer survivor) knows that it is already a constant battle with HMO bureaucrats to receive the coverage you need. Doctors are required to obtain authorization before scans they deem medically necessary are covered. I'll have to deal with bureaucracy either way, and I'd prefer government employees to private companies any day because at least I know they aren't worried about making a profit.


As for pre-existing conditions, they are used as nothing more than discrimination against the people who need access to medical care the most. I couldn't even obtain private medical insurance (I'm 24 years old) if I wanted to and had the money, because of my cancer history. So those defending pre-existing conditions only have profitability and their own interests at heart, and I pray you never become sick, because only then will you realize how wrong you were.

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: Jeff7
I think high prices of malpractice insurance also factor into this. I've read that that can influence doctors to move out of a certain region, or even country, because the cost of that insurance is just too high.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10...ref=health&oref=slogin

HOUSTON, Oct. 4 ? In Texas, it can be a long wait for a doctor: up to six months.

That is not for an appointment. That is the time it can take the Texas Medical Board to process applications to practice.

Four years after Texas voters approved a constitutional amendment limiting awards in medical malpractice lawsuits, doctors are responding as supporters predicted, arriving from all parts of the country to swell the ranks of specialists at Texas hospitals and bring professional health care to some long-underserved rural areas.



I guess they can thank George Walker Bush.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: JS80
Create a new class of "doctors" to take care of colds, simple shit. Something in between RN and MD.
-snip-

They already exist. They are called physician assistants

Fern

 

[Darwin333]

Originally posted by: Carmen813
I'll have to deal with bureaucracy either way, and I'd prefer government employees to private companies any day because at least I know they aren't worried about making a profit.

If I am in the middle of a large disaster zone I am hoping that Walmart shows up with water because FEMA flat out blows. As a matter of fact, I can't think of many government agencies that actually run remotely well (except the military maybe, they are really good at blowing stuff up).

Maybe if it was ran at the State level it would stand a chance but the federal government can screw up a wet dream. I have no desire for them to control my families health care.

 

[GroundedSailor]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: Ferocious
The $5000 credit goes to the insurance provider.

factcheck

On behalf of the individual/family, thus reducing their insurance bill by $5000. Why does this matter?

Matters because the Insurance company gets a guaranteed amount but families do not. What if you don't have insurance? Families do not get the money, but if you sign up for any plan the insurance co get the money. Basically forcing everyone to boost private insurance co revenues.

The main problem with health care is the existence of so many 'middlemen' (private insurance co's) each one taking a cut to cover their administration costs and make a profit. We should work to eliminate them and use the savings towards actual health care.

A single payer system with private service providers makes more sense from an efficiency point of view.

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: GroundedSailor

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: Ferocious
The $5000 credit goes to the insurance provider.

factcheck

On behalf of the individual/family, thus reducing their insurance bill by $5000. Why does this matter?

Matters because the Insurance company gets a guaranteed amount but families do not. What if you don't have insurance? Families do not get the money, but if you sign up for any plan the insurance co get the money. Basically forcing everyone to boost private insurance co revenues.

The main problem with health care is the existence of so many 'middlemen' (private insurance co's) each one taking a cut to cover their administration costs and make a profit. We should work to eliminate them and use the savings towards actual health care.

A single payer system with private service providers makes more sense from an efficiency point of view.

The entire point of the insurance credit is for you to use it to lower the cost of buying insurance. If you're not buying insurance, why do you need an insurance tax credit?

Second, is there ANY industry, which, in your opinion, doesn't have 'middlemen'?