Help me propose a wireless network for a restaurant

[Train]

The restuarant i work at is trying to boost thier lunchtime business. I already talked to one of the managers about setting a wireless network and allowing people to check out PCMCIA cards so they can surf the web while they are on lunch, I told him it would attract more business clientelle, as well as get them to stay longer, he liked the idea but wants me to get more information together to pitch it to all the other managers and the owner.

What im thinking so far is this.... Have the restuarant subscribe to a cable connection (pretty good speed in this neighborhood, no speed caps either) for only $39 a month. Then either a wireless router or a router and a wireless hub, im not sure which would be better. Then about 10 wireless pcmcia cards at the bar that people can check out to use while in the restaurant. I think the wireless is the way to go since people will be able to sit anywhere, instead of having to use a table by the wall if they want to get online, plus the tables are always being moved, so its probably not a good idea to have staionary ports.

Can anyone recomend a good setup? Should i just get a wireless router (and which one) or a router and a wireless hub (and which ones)? Also, what wireless pcmcia cars should i get (im probly looking to get 10 to start, any bulk deals anywhere?) and is there a good wireless pcmcia card that will work for both MACs and pc's or is this out of the question? One more thing, The office where the companys computers are is on the other side of the kitchen from the dining room, the kitchen has a lot of grills, microwaves, stoves and ventilation stuff in it, as well as two brick walls, would it be a bad idea to put the hub/router in the office? I can just as easily put it behind the bar right next to the dining room, is interference a big problem?

Thanks in advance for all your help,
- Train

 

[Adul]

I would go with a business version of the cable modem just because the service is better that way. has in customer service if something should go down.

 

[JackMDS]

What I would do is get a regular Router (about $70), and a second tier Access Point (A/P).

You want to be able to place the A/P in the best Transmission position, and not to be tide to few CAT5 cables, dragging all over the place.

Since you want more then few people to use the System without clogging the Bandwidth, you want a better Access Point then the Entry Level.

An example of second tier A/P:

This A/P cost about $400, that makes the project about $300 more expensive then buying an Entry level Wireless Cable/DSL Router, but it gives you a chance to succeed.

 

[Train]

is this the kind of AP you were thinking : Linksys Wireless AP Plus Cable/DSL Router w/ 4-Port Switch is that a good piece of hardware to start with? im thinking it will only be a max of 10 pcs on at any time (at least thats all we are plannig for now)

 

[Tallgeese]

Forget the check-out NICs. They'll get beat up, lost, or whatever, so fast, you wouldn't be able to keep any on hand.
Let folks bring their own 802.11b NICs, give them the connect info, make it open, and they can go to town, and you won't be on the hook for "support."

Make sure this connection is COMPLETELY isolated from the location's/chain's data systems.
Would not plan on sharing the Internet connection/bandwidth with ANY other network in the restaurant WITHOUT a DAMN good firewall separating the two.

 

[Adul]

So what are good wireless networking product out there?

I am planing on building two pcs for my mom and her boss. they want it networked so I rather go wireless for them.

 

[Garion]

I'd be careful of allowing people to walk in with their own cards.. If you do that, then you have to setup unrestricted access to your wireless network. For all you know, some kid will drive up in his car, park behind your place of business and hack into someplace. Since you're the IP owner, you'd have to explain what happened, which might be difficult.

If you give out the wireless cards, you can put them into the MAC table of your router and only allow those specific cards to talk on your network. If you have frequent customers with their own wireless access you can put their MAC's in your tables and let them in.

Also, you might want to consider some content management software - Make sure people aren't going out to porn sites or anything you wouldn't want the general public to see as they walk past a table.

Does your resturant have enough tables? You give people this kind of access at high speed and you're going to get campers, ordering a single cup of coffee and sitting there for hours. It's an interesting idea, but you might want to make sure you're well setup for it.

- G

 

[Gantry]

Another problem with giving out cards is they have to install the drivers before they use the net. I would consider this to be a serious problem, as sometimes driver installs don't go as expected. You can mess up a person's registry, screw up their AOL dialup connection, etc...

 

[SaigonK]

I would say you want to look at a Cisco based model as well, they offer range metering in some of the business models.
Imagine this scenario:

1. You begin offering wireless internet to your diners.
2. Some punk figures it out, as it wont take long since such a novelty is a great idea so word will spread.
3. junior punk goes and gets a PCMCIA wireless nic, sits in your parking lot and surfs for p0rn on your cable modem connection.. .or worse he tries some devious hacking act using YOUR ip and info.

The ranging allows you to set the distance (range) of your signal..you could'nt eliminate it all togethor, but if you saw some freak standing at your door with a laptop and not coming in you would be abit suspicious i hope!

We did thi with a Cisco setup for our CIO, his worry was someone could use his AP to get on the net from outside his home.
Works very well!

 

[noced]

Its a tough thing to call about handing out NIC's. One one hand, like Garion said, you can just add their MAC's to the routers list and gain a big chunk of security that way, but you also have the driver issues and stuff. I'd say have people bring their NIC's and make them fill out a responsible use policy (looked over by a lawyer beforehand) and get their MAC's and add those to the addressing table. It will take a bit longer, but better safe then sorry.

Id say get the Agere/Lucent/Avaya/Orinoco AP-1000 (or even AP-500) as an AP, then get a nice router with good firewall, like a SonicWALL or the new Symantec router.

 

[Train]

thanks for all the input guys.

Im definetly not goint to let it be an open network, we will have about 10 NICs to start that they can check out at the bar, those MAC addresses will be in the router permanently (unless we lose one) and if people come in with thier own, we'll temporarily add thier MAC adress, and either set it up to expire after so many hours, or just wipe out all the new MAC addresses each night. Table camping is definetly something we want to avoid, especially since coffee is free refils, we might just limit the internet thing to the lunch crowd. We dont get many kids under 21, we have mostly older college kids and an older local crowd. They really push alcohol sales, its the biggest profit margin, if someone is sitting there for more than an hour, its almost guarenteed the waitress will talk them into at least one alcoholic beverage, and one usually turns into a few more, even if its just lunch.

Im hoping the driver installation will go smoothly, most newer OS's have plug and play so the install is pretty painless, but if someone comes in with Win 95 we could have some headaches, and its not guarenteed someone who knows how to install it will be on staff at any time. I'm not always going to be there, and i can only show so much to the rest of the staff, most of them are just computer users, and would be lost on trying to install something for someone.

A use policy is a given, we will defently have a sheet explaining the No No's when using out connection, i doubt we will do any filtering, but probably logging just in case we need to check anyone. Im still doing a lot of reading up on the networks and kicking ideas around for now.

 

[bsobel]

Most $39 cable connections disallow their resale/reuse. I'm pretty sure you'll need some sort of business account.
Bill

 

[SaigonK]

Adding to the other posts:

1. I would definitely stay away from handing out NICS. I know as an IS guy i do not want anyone touching my laptops I support out in the field.
Most of us (i am sure some will agree) feel that our environments are unique (even if it is only a nic) that we do not want a third party who we know nothing about handling our equipment.
What if they break it? (as in spank the OS, not physically break it), who is responsible? I would sign a wavier...but if you are touching my machine and putting in a piece of hardware you can be damn sure Im going to want someone with some know-how to dit, not just a (forgive the saying) busboy who thinks he is a guru.

See what i mean?
Again i think it is a great idea, offers people some options for sure.
But i would go with a requirement on operating Systems and tell them they need their own nic.
It reduces your over initial cost, and also keeps you out of the "you put a nic in my machine...it wont boot up now...you need to fix it.." i think your attorney would be in agreement..

 

[skeletal29]

Yea thats a good idea.Goto ebay you will get very nice deals.

And how much do you plan to ask the customers to pay? I would say charge them 2$ an hour rather then a monthly price you know what i mean.

 

[Santa]

I couldn't speak about your paticular situation since I have never visited your resturant but I would say realistically don't expect more than 5 of these out within an hour period. Say you charge $5/hour which is pretty steep since most people would rather just go home and get on the internet but that would mean a total revenue of $25 for that hour.

Thoughts like this placed on a speadsheet will show how long it will take to recoup your investment. Obviously once you buy the equipment the first course of business is to recoup the cost involved.

If you want to propose something your best bet is not to concentrate on the technology side yet but to get a feel for the ROI (Return on Investment) That is the core of the issue since money speaks louder than the gee-wiz factor.

Lots of good ideas in this thread already though and here is my business thought for ya enjoy..