Help me pick my next camera (sub-$600)

[slackerinabox]

I need a camera for work, which is real estate. I picked up a Panasonic ZS3 that I like a lot but suffers under low light - sometimes apartments that I need to photograph do not have working electricity so I need to rely on available sunlight to take pictures, or (more common) living rooms are large and aren't lit well enough so pictures are unprofessionally grainy.

I'm NYC based so *ALL* shots will be indoors, fyi.

Here are my requirements:
1. Small. I use the subway and tried bringing my SLR along, it's miserable!
2. Compact or micro-4/3rds ok
3. Great low light performance
4. 720p video would be a nice bonus but not necessity

Please note that I can *not* use a tripod

 

[jpeyton]

Sony NEX-3

 

[speedy2]

Sorry but a DSLR and an UWA will kill any P&S for indoor photos like real estate.

Example. Used 20D or Rebel XT can be had for around $250-$300

Then add maybe a Sigma 10-20mm or even a "kit" type lens. $300-$400 depending on what you pick. Plus, you have a great walk around set-up for non real estate photos.

Size would not be that big of an issue for an XT + Lens unless you are just totally anal about wanting a compact you can fit in your pocket.

And you stated that sometimes you don't have electricity inside, yet you don't or "can't" use a tripod? Yet, you want to use a P&S for this?

 

[Gooberlx2]

Pentax K-x. One of the best lowlight sensors around in a very compact body for a dslr.

 

[996GT2]

You want something small and compact, with great low light performance, right? Plus you can't use a tripod. And you want it to be less than $600 with a lens?

In that case, try the Olympus E-PL1, which you can buy with a 14-42mm lens for $530 from Amazon. It image stabilization built into the camera body, so any lens you use will be stabilized. The built-in image stabilization is great for indoor use, since you can use relatively slow shutter speeds without having a tripod. The PL1 is also pretty good at high ISO, so that helps as well for indoor shots.

If the standard 14-42 (28-84mm equiv) lens is not wide enough for photographing interiors of houses, then Panasonic makes a good 7-14mm (14-28mm equiv) ultrawide angle lens that works on the E-PL1, and Olympus makes a cheaper 9-18mm (18-36mm equiv) ultrawide that also is great on the PL1. Plus, you can get adaptors for the PL1 that will allow you to use many manual focus 35mm lenses...and they also get the benefit of image stabilization.

 

[jpeyton]

Meh, the Sony NEX-3 is still better, especially for an amateur real-estate photographer.

Sweep panorama.

In camera HDR.

Those features would be great for real-estate. A DSLR with a tripod taking bracketed shots would be better, but the OP wants something small without a tripod.

 

[speedy2]

Still. Results with a DSLR and a kit lens on a tripod are going to blow away any P&S. Wondering if he is the real estate agent or doing the photography for them.

 

[slackerinabox]

You want something small and compact, with great low light performance, right? Plus you can't use a tripod. And you want it to be less than $600 with a lens?

In that case, try the Olympus E-PL1, which you can buy with a 14-42mm lens for $530 from Amazon. It image stabilization built into the camera body, so any lens you use will be stabilized. The built-in image stabilization is great for indoor use, since you can use relatively slow shutter speeds without having a tripod. The PL1 is also pretty good at high ISO, so that helps as well for indoor shots.

If the standard 14-42 (28-84mm equiv) lens is not wide enough for photographing interiors of houses, then Panasonic makes a good 7-14mm (14-28mm equiv) ultrawide angle lens that works on the E-PL1, and Olympus makes a cheaper 9-18mm (18-36mm equiv) ultrawide that also is great on the PL1. Plus, you can get adaptors for the PL1 that will allow you to use many manual focus 35mm lenses...and they also get the benefit of image stabilization.

Read some reviews and - SOLD! Thanks for the suggestion, this looks perfect for my purposes. I'm selling my pentax dslr and my ZS3 so it looks like I can pick up the E-PL1 for less than $100 out of pocket - perfect!

Thanks!

 

[preslove]

Sure you can't up your price to $675? The GF1 will be more compact with the 20mm pancake lens.

http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-DMC-.../ref=pd_cp_p_1

 

[996GT2]

Sure you can't up your price to $675? The GF1 will be more compact with the 20mm pancake lens.

http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-DMC-.../ref=pd_cp_p_1

The 20mm pancake isn't well suited to indoor architecture because it's 40mm equivalent, so not really wide enough for taking shots of tight indoor spaces.

Also, the 20mm works perfectly on the PL1, but on the PL1 you get the added benefit of that lens being stabilized since the PL1 has built-in image stabilization.

 

[jpeyton]

E-PL1 over the NEX-3? Interesting choice, considering the Sony is at least 1-stop better at high-ISO, has a tilting VGA LCD display (a better LCD being essential when buying a camera without an optical viewfinder), and is only $599 with an 18-55mm lens or $549 with a 16mm f/2.8 (24mm equivalent) pancake which would be ideal for wide-angle interior shots.

And it's smaller than the Olympus to boot.

 

[996GT2]

E-PL1 over the NEX-3? Interesting choice, considering the Sony is at least 1-stop better at high-ISO, has a tilting VGA LCD display (a better LCD being essential when buying a camera without an optical viewfinder), and is only $599 with an 18-55mm lens or $549 with a 16mm f/2.8 (24mm equivalent) pancake which would be ideal for wide-angle interior shots.

And it's smaller than the Olympus to boot.

It's not smaller than the E-PL1 though. From the view you showed, it LOOKS smaller, but that's only because you can't see how disproportionately big its lens is compared to the rest of the camera. The NEX cameras actually look a bit unbalanced because of how large the lens in comparison to the rest of the camera.

E-PL1 w/14-42mm left, NEX5 (smaller than the NEX3) w/18-55 middle, GF1 with 14-42 right.

As far as the rest of the specs go, it is pretty much a wash between the two cameras. The Olympus has its advantages in some areas, while the Sony has advantages in other areas. The Sony may be 1 stop better at high ISO due to the slightly larger sensor, but the Olympus has built-in image stabilization while the Sony does not. While the Sony does have a stabilized kit lens, you lose image stabilization with lenses like the 16mm f/2.8. With the E-PL1, any lens you mount is stabilized. Also, while the Sony has a higher resolution screen, the Olympus will accept an articulating electronic viewfinder that has higher resolution than the Sony's LCD (the NEX has no EVF option).

Plus, with the Sony you need to carry around the proprietary flash unit since one is not built in. The Sony has a very awkward flash mounting procedure since it lacks a standard hotshoe (which also means you cannot use standard external flash units with it, even if they are made by Sony). Not only does the E-PL1 have a built in flash, but that flash can act as a wireless commander and can also be pulled back for bounce flash. That's a very useful feature, and one that is not often found in built-in flashes.

 

[jpeyton]

That picture is with the Olympus kit lens in it's "closed" position. Once you open it to actually use it, it's as long as the Sony or Panasonic lens. Sony's kit lens is made of metal to boot.

And while the Olympus might have IS in body, it also has a 2X crop sensor, which is a huge disadvantage when your primary purpose for the camera is to shoot wide-angle interiors. To get the same 24mm wide-angle that the Sony 16mm pancake gives you, you would need a 12mm lens on the Olympus (which doesn't exist). And the Olympus 9-18mm costs more than the entire Sony kit.

 

[996GT2]

That picture is with the Olympus kit lens in it's "closed" position. Once you open it to actually use it, it's as long as the Sony or Panasonic lens. Sony's kit lens is made of metal to boot.

And while the Olympus might have IS in body, it also has a 2X crop sensor, which is a huge disadvantage when your primary purpose for the camera is to shoot wide-angle interiors. To get the same 24mm wide-angle that the Sony 16mm pancake gives you, you would need a 12mm lens on the Olympus (which doesn't exist). And the Olympus 9-18mm costs more than the entire Sony kit.

But isn't that the whole point of the folding lens in the first place? So that you have a smaller camera when you need to store it? The Sony doesn't give you the option to collapse the kit lens when you want to stick it in a bag or something, so it becomes obtrusive.

As far as the rest goes, I don't think the slightly smaller sensor is as big of an issue as you make it out to be. Keep in mind that the Sony has a 1.52x crop sensor, which isn't a ton better. To be honest, I've shot interiors before, and 24mm is often not wide enough. When I shoot interiors, I am most often shooting in the 17-20mm range on my 5D. The Olympus at least gives you the option of buying a ultrawide-angle lens, which isn't actually priced too badly at $469. On the other hand, Sony does not make any lenses wider than 16mm (24mm equiv) for the NEX line, so you have to buy a $200 Alpha to E mount adapter (in addition to the cost of an ultrawide angle lens) just to get true ultra wide angle on a NEX 3.

For me, the biggest issue with the Sony is the lack of a built in flash and the lack of a hot-shoe. That, in my opinion, is a greater deficiency than the slightly smaller sensor on the E-P1 because you cannot use a full size external flash with the NEX-3 no matter how much you're willing to pay. Leave it up to Sony to create yet another proprietary flash interface that's compatible with only ONE flash on the market today (and a small/weak one at that).

I'm not trying to claim that one is inherently better than the other, but rather pointing out that both have advantages and disadvantages.

-Olympus Advantages: Cheaper, IS built in, more lenses to choose from, flash hot-shoe, built in flash, wireless flash commander
-Sony Advantages: Bigger sensor, tilting screen, better LCD screen

 

[brainhulk]

I'm wondering if being 1-stop better in noise is really that much of a deal breaker. I'm still a beginner but I've been using photoshop (topaz add on) to remove noise, and it really works well. The highest ISO i've used so far is 400 so I dont know if higher would be too much noise to remove

 

[996GT2]

I'm wondering if being 1-stop better in noise is really that much of a deal breaker. I'm still a beginner but I've been using photoshop (topaz add on) to remove noise, and it really works well. The highest ISO i've used so far is 400 so I dont know if higher would be too much noise to remove

Depends on your intended use. If you mostly shoot below ISO 1600, you won't see much of a difference between micro 4/3 and APS-C. However, the difference gets larger above ISO 1600, and the APS-C cameras show less noise and better detail due to the larger sensor.

You can remove noise, and Photoshop CS5's Camera Raw 6 actually have an extremely good noise reduction algorithm that doesn't smear detail like some NR programs do. With ISO 400, you probably won't even have to use noise reduction. With my 5D, even a properly exposed ISO 1600 shot will not need much (if any) noise reduction applied to the RAW file.

Keep in mind that noise is not inherently a bad thing. In fact, if you go too overboard with the noise reduction, all you are doing is blurring out the details in your image. It's important to strike a balance between lowering noise while maintaining as much detail as possible.

 

[slackerinabox]

Hey guys,

Just wanted to let you know that my e-pl1 is on it's way, should have it tomorrow! I was able to sell my pentax dslr for $350 and my zs3's on ebay (hopefully I'll get $100) - out of pocket of less than $200! Woot!

I'm sure the sony's fine but I need a flash built in, just in case.

Thanks!

 

[slackerinabox]

Tried my new e-pl1 out in the field and, let me tell you, it's love at first sight! Have much more to learn but the pictures are stunning, even on the idiot-friendly iAuto mode.

Thanks guys!

 

[996GT2]

Tried my new e-pl1 out in the field and, let me tell you, it's love at first sight! Have much more to learn but the pictures are stunning, even on the idiot-friendly iAuto mode.

Thanks guys!

Update it to the v1.1 firmware if you are still running 1.0. 1.1 speeds up AF by quite a bit.