Help me pick between two DSLRs

[randomlinh]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
The 18-55IS should be fine for landscapes and people. That isn't enough reach for animals, unless they happen to be in a cage or petting zoo.

that's why it gets coupled w/ the 55-250IS =)

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: randomlinh

Originally posted by: jpeyton
The 18-55IS should be fine for landscapes and people. That isn't enough reach for animals, unless they happen to be in a cage or petting zoo.

that's why it gets coupled w/ the 55-250IS =)

Unless the 55-250IS isn't in your budget. In which case, you downgrade your body to the next lowest model (in this case the XSi) with a two lens kit.

Actually, in regard to pure image quality, the XSi is every bit as good (and in some high-ISO situations even better) as the T1i. The difference between 12MP and 15MP in real-world use has very few advantages and several disadvantages.

Of course, the XSi doesn't have a movie mode nor does it have a VGA screen. Two things that really don't matter when it comes to taking great pictures.

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: randomlinh

Originally posted by: jpeyton
The 18-55IS should be fine for landscapes and people. That isn't enough reach for animals, unless they happen to be in a cage or petting zoo.

that's why it gets coupled w/ the 55-250IS =)

Unless the 55-250IS isn't in your budget. In which case, you downgrade your body to the next lowest model (in this case the XSi) with a two lens kit.

Actually, in regard to pure image quality, the XSi is every bit as good (and in some high-ISO situations even better) as the T1i. The difference between 12MP and 15MP in real-world use has very few advantages and several disadvantages.

Of course, the XSi doesn't have a movie mode nor does it have a VGA screen. Two things that really don't matter when it comes to taking great pictures.

Is the T1i's movie mode worth it? I remember that 30fps was reserved for 720p video, and there was only a single internal mic, and you still can't control/set the aperture.

You know I should probably look up this info before I post lol.

But yes, I would have mos def taken an XSi over a T1i as I don't see any major photographic improvements between the 2.

It makes me wonder how high of a pixel density we will push on APS as each generation adds more and more.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: magomago
It makes me wonder how high of a pixel density we will push on APS as each generation adds more and more.

We'll get more pixels year after year; that is an inevitability.

But we're seeing diminishing (and even negative) returns as a result.

Camera technology is advancing slower than the yearly rat race for pixels. Even though Canon may want to release a camera 12 months from now with 30% more pixels in the same sensor area, they may not have the technology to improve image quality for 24-36 months.

Is 15MP too much for an APS-C camera? No. But Canon's 15MP efforts so far have been rushed; I'm sure their next generation of 15MP cameras will fix some of the noise issues with the T1i/50D.

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: magomago
It makes me wonder how high of a pixel density we will push on APS as each generation adds more and more.

We'll get more pixels year after year; that is an inevitability.

But we're seeing diminishing (and even negative) returns as a result.

Camera technology is advancing slower than the yearly rat race for pixels. Even though Canon may want to release a camera 12 months from now with 30% more pixels in the same sensor area, they may not have the technology to improve image quality for 24-36 months.

Is 15MP too much for an APS-C camera? No. But Canon's 15MP efforts so far have been rushed; I'm sure their next generation of 15MP cameras will fix some of the noise issues with the T1i/50D.

Yeah we'll see. Noise gains Samsung's 14.6MP sensor doesn't seem to be that great at all between the K20D and K-7. Granted, its the same sensor with 'tweaks'....but nothing radically different.

But knowing Canon and the fact that they are the king of NR (good or bad), I'm sure they can't possibly make it worse Even then, "noise" issues on APS cameras are nothing when we compare it to the wider field of p&s cameras.

 

[Munky]

NR is worth nothing if you need to shoot RAW to preserve the most detail and dynamic range. The T1i sensor is inherently more noisy than the XSi, and that alone would be enough reason for me to chose the XSi instead. The video capabilities are way overrated IMO.

 

[Gooberlx2]

Originally posted by: Agentbolt

Originally posted by: Gooberlx2

Originally posted by: Agentbolt
So much for that. After actually playing with one at Ritz, I ended up grabbing a Rebel T1i. I know, right? Not even kind of what I was looking to spend before. God this thing is sweet though. It does come with the standard kit lens, which is probably gonna be holding back its performance a bit, but if I end up getting super into this whole photography thing, I can always spring for a better piece of glass.

FWIW, I think photography is actually a relatively inexpensive hobby. Certainly, the startup costs can be teh suck. But a well cared for body and a couple decent lenses will continue to perform as well as they did since day one for years and years.

Compared to....say...persistent bike maintenance.
(or winter skiing in my case).

I've been wanting to upgrade my EOS 300D (original digital rebel) for years, but the fact is that picture quality and camera performance are still quite adequate for my usual needs...so I just can't justify the cost. *sigh*

Man bike maintenance strikes me as being cheap in comparison. If I get into this big-time, I'm going to need more lenses, not to mention a better computer to mess with the images, and I'll also need a flash, filters, wide-angle adapter, etc etc...

My bike just needs new tubes and brakes every once in awhile

LOL, I guess I just think of my hardcore mountain biking friends when it comes to bikes. I know a guy who seems to break something every week. Being in Arizona, I'm sure you know a few who'll come back from MOAB with big ol' :sadface; because something inevitably broke. Those ultra light, ultra strong parts ain't cheap.

But what I'm saying is that with stuff like quality lenses, it's essentially a one-time purchase. I've got 40 or 50 year-old Pentax screw mount lenses that work spectacularly.

 

[twistedlogic]

Originally posted by: Gooberlx2
But what I'm saying is that with stuff like quality lenses, it's essentially a one-time purchase. I've got 40 or 50 year-old Pentax screw mount lenses that work spectacularly.

Camera bodys, Lenses, flashes, tripods, monopods, filters, camera bags, Umbrellas, lightstands, and of course printing add up pretty quick. And as mentioned, a nice PC w/lots of RAM, software (LR is $299, Photoshop is $699), large HDD, and backups of HDD aren't cheap.

And quality lenses aren't as cheap as they used to be, the top of the line lenses contain image stabilization ,fast AF motors, and weather sealing.

I remember when I first looked into a DSLR, I thought the first cost of just the body+kit lens was steep (even entry level), but that was just a drop in a bucket.

Now I'm not saying that biking is cheap, I just don't see a bike accessory costing $10,000.

 

[Gooberlx2]

Originally posted by: twistedlogic

Originally posted by: Gooberlx2
But what I'm saying is that with stuff like quality lenses, it's essentially a one-time purchase. I've got 40 or 50 year-old Pentax screw mount lenses that work spectacularly.

Camera bodys, Lenses, flashes, tripods, monopods, filters, camera bags, Umbrellas, lightstands, and of course printing add up pretty quick. And as mentioned, a nice PC w/lots of RAM, software (LR is $299, Photoshop is $699), large HDD, and backups of HDD aren't cheap.

And quality lenses aren't as cheap as they used to be, the top of the line lenses contain image stabilization ,fast AF motors, and weather sealing.

I remember when I first looked into a DSLR, I thought the first cost of just the body+kit lens was steep (even entry level), but that was just a drop in a bucket.

Now I'm not saying that biking is cheap, I just don't see a bike accessory costing $10,000.

I dunno man, after reading through the "bikes are expensive" thread in OT that's what got me on the comparison in the first place...any hobby is expensive at the higher levels. At a casual hobby level, I still think photography is relatively affordable.

 

[Agentbolt]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: magomago
It makes me wonder how high of a pixel density we will push on APS as each generation adds more and more.

We'll get more pixels year after year; that is an inevitability.

But we're seeing diminishing (and even negative) returns as a result.

Camera technology is advancing slower than the yearly rat race for pixels. Even though Canon may want to release a camera 12 months from now with 30% more pixels in the same sensor area, they may not have the technology to improve image quality for 24-36 months.

Is 15MP too much for an APS-C camera? No. But Canon's 15MP efforts so far have been rushed; I'm sure their next generation of 15MP cameras will fix some of the noise issues with the T1i/50D.

where did you see this information about noise problems with the T1i? I checked all the major review sites and none of them mentioned this. They did all say it doesn't take BETTER pictures than the XSI, nor did I really expect it to. But I saw nothing about horrible noise issues with the T1i, either compared to relevent Nikons/Pentaxes or the XSI

 

[Munky]

Originally posted by: Agentbolt

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: magomago
It makes me wonder how high of a pixel density we will push on APS as each generation adds more and more.

We'll get more pixels year after year; that is an inevitability.

But we're seeing diminishing (and even negative) returns as a result.

Camera technology is advancing slower than the yearly rat race for pixels. Even though Canon may want to release a camera 12 months from now with 30% more pixels in the same sensor area, they may not have the technology to improve image quality for 24-36 months.

Is 15MP too much for an APS-C camera? No. But Canon's 15MP efforts so far have been rushed; I'm sure their next generation of 15MP cameras will fix some of the noise issues with the T1i/50D.

where did you see this information about noise problems with the T1i? I checked all the major review sites and none of them mentioned this. They did all say it doesn't take BETTER pictures than the XSI, nor did I really expect it to. But I saw nothing about horrible noise issues with the T1i, either compared to relevent Nikons/Pentaxes or the XSI

Look at the RAW noise tests here - http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos500d/page15.asp
Without any in-camera processing and NR, the T1i has higher noise levels than either the XSi or the d5000.

 

[Madwand1]

Here's an interesting article about the 50D, which is related to the 500D/T1i:

http://www.luminous-landscape....iews/cameras/50d.shtml

To address both the resolution capability and the higher-ISO noise, while adding a lot of "speed", consider trying or getting a 50 f/1.8 at some point.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: Agentbolt
where did you see this information about noise problems with the T1i? I checked all the major review sites and none of them mentioned this. They did all say it doesn't take BETTER pictures than the XSI, nor did I really expect it to. But I saw nothing about horrible noise issues with the T1i, either compared to relevent Nikons/Pentaxes or the XSI

Canon is doing something weird with the T1i's chroma NR.

Here is the Imaging Resource studio scene at ISO 1600. Check out the red fabric on the fabric wheel (at the 3 'o' clock position):

T1i ISO 1600

XSi ISO 1600

Canon's reach exceeds its grasp.

 

[Gooberlx2]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: Agentbolt
where did you see this information about noise problems with the T1i? I checked all the major review sites and none of them mentioned this. They did all say it doesn't take BETTER pictures than the XSI, nor did I really expect it to. But I saw nothing about horrible noise issues with the T1i, either compared to relevent Nikons/Pentaxes or the XSI

Canon is doing something weird with the T1i's chroma NR.

Here is the Imaging Resource studio scene at ISO 1600. Check out the red fabric on the fabric wheel (at the 3 'o' clock position):

T1i ISO 1600

XSi ISO 1600

Canon's reach exceeds its grasp.

They lose some detail on the autumn leaves fabric too...like the inner brown doesn't extend as far or sharp as the xsi. That red fabric is crazy though.

Then again, their site says shots were done with a pre-production unit. Be nice if they'd re-shoot it.

 

[Agentbolt]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: Agentbolt
where did you see this information about noise problems with the T1i? I checked all the major review sites and none of them mentioned this. They did all say it doesn't take BETTER pictures than the XSI, nor did I really expect it to. But I saw nothing about horrible noise issues with the T1i, either compared to relevent Nikons/Pentaxes or the XSI

Canon is doing something weird with the T1i's chroma NR.

Here is the Imaging Resource studio scene at ISO 1600. Check out the red fabric on the fabric wheel (at the 3 'o' clock position):

T1i ISO 1600

XSi ISO 1600

Canon's reach exceeds its grasp.

How is the image quality on a pre-production unit applicable? I'll admit I mixed the extra noise in the earlier review linked, but it's hardly earth-shattering stuff, and it only happens in RAW where you'll just be cleaning up the photo anyway.

 

[aphex]

So i'm still torn..... K2000, XS or XSI.... Hrmph

I think I may just go all in and grab the K2000 with kit lens for $419, its just too good of a deal to pass up

 

[randomlinh]

Originally posted by: aphex
So i'm still torn..... K2000, XS or XSI.... Hrmph

I think I may just go all in and grab the K2000 with kit lens for $419, its just too good of a deal to pass up

K2000, then get the pancake lenses =)

 

[aphex]

Actually, I've gone back and forth 1000x on this decision and I just can't say yes to the Pentax in the end. Two big things are keeping me away, no user selectable focus points and the upgrade path. I'm just not a big fan of the higher end pentax models while I am with Canon and Nikon.

I think I'll hold out for a good XS/XSi or D3000 deal. Get a low end body for now with decent glass, then worry about a more advanced body down the road.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

Originally posted by: aphex
Actually, I've gone back and forth 1000x on this decision and I just can't say yes to the Pentax in the end. Two big things are keeping me away, no user selectable focus points and the upgrade path. I'm just not a big fan of the higher end pentax models while I am with Canon and Nikon.

I think I'll hold out for a good XS/XSi or D3000 deal. Get a low end body for now with decent glass, then worry about a more advanced body down the road.

Really??? This is an outright dealbreaker for me. Not sure how one could even function in many situations without selectable AF points.

 

[jpeyton]

Ditto; never been interested in Pentax.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: munky

Look at the RAW noise tests here - http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos500d/page15.asp
Without any in-camera processing and NR, the T1i has higher noise levels than either the XSi or the d5000.

it's also got more detail.

*shrug*

 

[randomlinh]

Originally posted by: aphex
Actually, I've gone back and forth 1000x on this decision and I just can't say yes to the Pentax in the end. Two big things are keeping me away, no user selectable focus points and the upgrade path. I'm just not a big fan of the higher end pentax models while I am with Canon and Nikon.

I think I'll hold out for a good XS/XSi or D3000 deal. Get a low end body for now with decent glass, then worry about a more advanced body down the road.

just skip the k2000 for a k200D but yeah, as of now, if you don't like the k7, it's a gamble if pentax will ever make anything of a higher caliber and FF. sorta sucks, I love pentax and their image processing.. but not enough to switch. If I have money to burn, I might pick up a K7+3 prime pancake for the hell of it, but that won't happen anytime soon.

 

[HelenOster]

Originally posted by: arrfep

If you want to go Canon, I'd pick up an Xti, $349. It's cheaper than any other Canon right now. I've bought a refurbished DSLR from Adorama and it was indistinguishable from new. At this price, you can pick up a kit lens and a tele-zoom like the 70-300mm and stay under $500 total........My last recommendation is an Olympus E-450 2 lens kit, $469.95.

Just wanted to thank you for purchasing from Adorama Camera, and for recommending our refurbished items to other users of this forum.

However, if you have any concerns or queries regarding ordering from Adorama - or AdoramaPix - in the future, please don't hesitate to contact me directly.


Sincerely

Helen Oster
Adorama Camera Customer Service Ambassador

helen.oster@adoramacamera.com
www.adorama.com