Help me in Court......Any lawyers out here?

aimn

Banned
Feb 14, 2001
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I got a ticket a few weeks ago, I plead not guilty yesterday and it is set for trial. I wonder if anyone has some ideas for me, as far as representing myself in court. I cant see paying a lawyer $500 to plead not guilty on an $80 ticket.

At the intersection of Rice and Maryland St., you cannot make a left turn from 7am-9am and 4pm-6pm. I am very aware of this, I drive 10 blocks out of my way, everyday on my way home from work to avoid making that left turn. On this morning, I came to the intersection and looked at my watch, 6:58am, car clock 6:58am, I turned left. Two blocks down I get pulled over. The officer sits behind me, running my licence plate for a minute or two, then approaches my car. The officer asks "do you know why I pulled you over?" I said "no". Officer "did you know that there is no left turn from 7am to 9am?" I said (looking at my watch that now says 07:00:20)"I know you cant make a turn from 7am to 9am." Officer "I will be right back." About 3 minutes later he came back with a ticket for failing to yield a traffic control device. He wrote the time of the incident as 0702. I left the scene at 0703, my time. Pentalty = $80 fine and it is a moving violation on my perfectly clean driving record!
I check/set my watch every day, I am a sysadmin and have to keep the clocks synched on my servers every day. I use the atomic clock as the correct time. I definetely would not have made that turn during the posted times. It was not yet 7am, so no crime committed.
I plead not guilty to the Hearing Officer yesterday. She said that she would offer me this: Pay the $80 and I will keep the ticket off of your record, as long as there are no other violations in the next year. I told her no, because I did not break the law. She started getting smart with me saying "you will never be able to prove that the officer had the wrong time."
I am accountable for my actions, had I violated the law, I would pay the fine and take the punishment. I did not violate the law.

Your feedback would be appreciated!
 

skywhr

Diamond Member
Oct 30, 2000
3,866
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Theres no way it was you, just tell them that you never leave your pc you were in OT the whole time, we will be your alibi!

I think they've got you over a barrel, there is no way to prove the time.
 

CayJon

Senior member
Jan 11, 2000
313
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I think you have a case, bud.......the evidence is on the ticket, 0702. Search the web for legal self reprensentation. Study the basics of court procedure. Even if ya lose, the violation is wiped off after 3 years. (at least in mystate, La. it does)
 

Netopia

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
4,793
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I would ask that the officer provide proof that his watch was callibrated to an atomic clock by someone with the credentials to do so. Explain that in the case of Radar Guns, the officers have to have them calibrated regularly because thier accuracy is so critical to whether or not innocent people are charged with offenses. In this case, you can tell the judge that you understand that he/she has no way to tell who's watch was correct, yours or the officers, but with no way to tell, you would like to ask the court to be mericful and prudent in that with all information available to you, your intent was to legally turn within the constraints set by law. Tell them that you don't have any reason to believe that the officer is padding his time, but believe that the officer is also doing the very best he/she can do with the information provided. These things being what they are, ask that the court act on the premise that you are innocent until proven guilty and in this case the only evidense is provided by two pieces of equipment whose accuracy at the time of the incident cannot be determined.

If you have even taken anyone to work or have anyone who has driven with you, have them sign a notorized statement testefing to your normal circuitous route around that intersection and how you normally go way out of your way to avoid it. That may further your chances of the judge believing that the only reason you took that route that morning was because you believed yourself to be within the law.

If you have time, you could also go to the Department of Motor Vehicles and see if you can get a printed copy of your clean driving record to enter as evidence. Any safe driving discounts displayed on your insurance invoices would be good to bring also.

It may not work, but being VERY polite and humble about it you may have a chance. If you go in talking trash and being loud... I'm betting that the judge will just find you guilty.

Good Luck, I hope you win,

Joe
 

rc5

Platinum Member
Oct 13, 1999
2,464
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There are plenty of tricks on the internet about how to fight a traffic ticket.

Basically, from what I know:

1) Ask the court to delay the trial date. If the officer doesn't come to the trial at that date, you win automatically. He will have a much less chance to recall this thing too.

2) Read a lot about the traffic law and the regulation of that particular intersection.

3) Based on "the freedom of information disclosure"/(sp?), write a formal letter to the police station asking for the background information of that officer and what kind of trainning he ever taken, a clear copy of both side of his copy of the ticket and any notes. Send that letter by registered mail, so they can't claim they didn't get it.

4) Take picture of that intersection. If there's a sign which says "No left turn from 7am-9am", That definitely helps.

5) In the court, try all means to find the holes in that officer's statement and make the judge think the officer wasn't potent when wrote that ticket and thus dismiss the case.

It's probably lot's of homework in this way. But anyway you made that choice.
 

rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
19,441
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well its your word against the police officers. I say you would have a good case since there is no accurate way at the scene to determine when it is actually 7:00 a.m. At a traffic light you have green, yeelow, and red. At that particular traffic device you have nothing of that sort except your watch. I would argue that point. It will probably depend on the mood of the judge. But it sounds like definetly something I would fight as well. Good luck and let us know what happens.
 

joeyd

Senior member
Jun 7, 2000
411
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here is what i would do.... I'd ask the judge how long it would take you to pull over a person.... 2 blocks from the scene of the crime (1or2 mins ?) get out of your squad car walk to the car (30seconds?) get back in your car and run the plates(1min?) write the ticket(30seconds ? ) and then ask if it was possible that he did all that in less than two mins ? I doubt that is humanly possible since the cops in my town take five mins just to get their fat butts outta the car.... i would get them on the time of the ticket with it just being over 7..
 

BDawg

Lifer
Oct 31, 2000
11,631
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If you're intent on proving your innocence, try this.

When you're on trial, you're allowed to call the officer to the stand.

"Officer, did you base the time of the infraction on your watch, or the clock in your car." If he mentions that it comes off of a centrally controlled computer, you might have trouble. You should be able to get the info ahead of time.

Ask him what time this device says now.

Show the judge your watch. Mention that because of your job, you are required to keep correct time always. Be prepared to have some info about atomic clocks for the layman.

If the officer's time is ahead of your time, ask him "should tickets be given out in relation to whatever time the officer believes it is, or the actual time."

If the officer's watch is indeed faster than yours, I think you might have a case.
 

rc5

Platinum Member
Oct 13, 1999
2,464
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Sysadmin,

Ouch, I missed one line. Try as hard as you can in the trial. Please keep us updated.
 

aimn

Banned
Feb 14, 2001
683
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rc5
If I had checked my watch, via an atomic clock, and I had the same time, why would'nt I believe that I made the turn before 7am? If it is "illegal" to make a left turn from 0700 to 0900 and I made the turn at 0658, why would I think that I am guilty?
 

aimn

Banned
Feb 14, 2001
683
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Am I wrong or doesnt the court have to prove that it was after 7am when I made the turn......beyond a reasonable doubt?
 

Lore

Diamond Member
Oct 24, 1999
3,624
1
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I think Joeyd really has a good point; if you can someone factor in Netopia's idea with Joeyd's concept of "time-passing-while-writing-ticket," you may have a case!

Let me know.
 

Lore

Diamond Member
Oct 24, 1999
3,624
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By the way, at least in Santa Clara County, the officers get paid overtime to go to court, so there is no financial reason for them NOT to show. It's just whether or not they had something better to do then.
 

rc5

Platinum Member
Oct 13, 1999
2,464
1
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Fight speeding ticket

Check out the upon page, it's mainly dealing with speeding tickets, but the principle should apply to any traffic ticket.

Anyway, that's a minor offense(if afterall). You are not going to lose an arm and a leg.

I wish I had read those tips when I got my first and the only speeding ticket in my life.
 

xraymongral

Banned
Nov 25, 2000
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First, ask to see the officers watch. Compare his time to Atomic time. Then show the judge info about Atomic time and why you use it with you to court, show why you set your watch to that time.

You will have established a reasonable doubt that the officers watch could have been off by a few minutes. If there is reasonable doubt, then you are innocent.
 

xochi

Senior member
Jan 18, 2000
891
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since the officers watch stated 7:02, I would think that a fair judge would she that is a reasonable amount of time after the "no left turn" rule to let it go. just say your car clock or watch stated a earlier time and you have a shot.

I would fight it if you have the time. otherwise what harm can it do.

 

BDawg

Lifer
Oct 31, 2000
11,631
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<< BDawg

Thanks for the site! You da man
>>



Lemme know what he says. Supposedly, he's pretty prompt.
 

bigbootydaddy

Banned
Sep 14, 2000
5,820
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hes got two minutes. take a stop watch.

tell him to write out a ticket. time him.

find out how long it takes to pull up plates AND AND AND driving record, they are supposed to check both. hes in a cop car, not a comfty cubical, so this has to take a good minute.

then figure donut time, scratching himself, etc etc, it will be WAY over 2 min. then how long it will take to drive 2 blocks, at the speed limit of the street:

if the speed limit is 20mph, figure out how long it took you to drive that distance. every second counts.

i think it is a really winnable case.