Help me I may be a retard!!!

[Duvie]

OK...I was using a stock cooler and I replaced it with a TT venus 12...at 2628mhz I only imporved my temps by 1-2c load versus a stock opteron all aluminum cooler....

So I replced it with the stock cooler back...

The stock cooler had the factory TIM pad by the way....I placed it back with some AS5 and now my temps are 4c higher then what they were before.....

DO I KNOW HOW TO APPLY AS5?? GOD I MISS THE MUCH BETTER APPLICATION OF AS2......

I think I may try the stuff that came with the hsf....

 

[Duvie]

So a small bb size of stuff in the cenetr and place the hsf on it gently twist and press straight down to spread it out through compression...I will try that....

 

[jiffylube1024]

Originally posted by: Duvie
So a small bb size of stuff in the cenetr and place the hsf on it gently twist and press straight down to spread it out through compression...I will try that....

Yeah, that's the way Arctic Silver themselves are advising us to do with with any CPU with a heatspreader; I usually just stick to the "spread a thin layer across the whole top" on my P4's but I have yet to try the new method... I probably should.

 

[BW86]

I always use a small bb size in the middle of the heatspreader, Place the HSF on it and twist it a couple of times. Like you said Duvie.

 

[sodcha0s]

I used the AS recommended method on my a64 3000 939, and my idle temps were about 43-44c! I went back to the ol' spread a thin, even layer across the whole cap method ala athlon xp, now my idle temps are 36-37c. I think AS is trying to make sure you don't slop any TIM over the edges and potentially screw something up, because for me at least, the old method works MUCH better.

EDIT: using an XP-90 HS w/80mm fan BTW... Also the higher temps were with the cpu running completely stock and 1.37 v-core (Neo2 undervolts...) The cooler temps are with the cpu running 2.2G @ 1.45v.

 

[RealityTime]

Originally posted by: sodcha0s
I used the AS recommended method on my a64 3000 939, and my idle temps were about 43-44c! I went back to the ol' spread a thin, even layer across the whole cap method ala athlon xp, now my idle temps are 36-37c. I think AS is trying to make sure you don't slop any TIM over the edges and potentially screw something up, because for me at least, the old method works MUCH better.

EDIT: using an XP-90 HS w/80mm fan BTW...

out of curiosity, how did you spread this thin layer, and if possible describe 'thin' thanks

 

[sodcha0s]

Sure.... I put a dab of AS3 (guess I should have mentioned I'm using AS3...DOH!) in the middle of the heat spreader, about the size of a bb or slightly less. This is where most people use a razor or credit card to spread it evenly.... I've found that sticking your hand inside a sandwich baggie and spreading with your finger is much easier, and you can spread the stuff much more evenly. Once it's spread even across the whole surface, move your finger to a clean part of the baggie and 'pat' out the entire surface again. Take your time and get it as even as you can. It will look textured when you're finished, and you should be able to see the markings on the heat spreader through the AS3 (don't know about AS5, I've never used it). You want a VERY thin layer, it works better. Another tip, turn the baggie inside out before you stick your hand in so you're using the INSIDE of the bag to apply the AS, this will insure no foreign material (dust, dirt, oil) contaminates the AS. I also 'prep' the mating surface of th HS with AS by putting a small amount on it and rubbing it in with the baggie method. Keep using a clean section of the baggie until no more AS comes off the HS. This will fill in the tiny scratches on the bottom of the HS.

 

[imported_DaveA]

n00b moment:

whats a "bb".

also can we have pics of artic silver applied to the core? i always hear thin, but never sure how thin thin is.

 

[AnandThenMan]

a "bb" is the ammo you put in a BB gun. A bb is about the size of the head of a small nail. Or a bit larger than the size of this letter> o

edit: some good pics here:
http://www.arcticsilver.com/ar...ilver_instructions.htm

 

[Duvie]

problem is AS5 is like peanut butter and doesn't spread like the good old days of AS2 and AS3...so much easrier to spread and sread thin.....

AS says the reason is to insure no air bubbles and the fact the core is actually quite small and the whole ihs actually does not need coverage....

I am using the thermal paste the hsf came with and I am running about equal to my best AS5 appliaction though now I put the fan back to blowing onto fins as per design....

2628mhz 1.52-1.54v max temp ( 57c CC 53c Speedfan (prime95)) 54c CC 50c iSpeedfan (FH units))

 

[imported_DaveA]

so on monday when i get my athlon 64 3200+ 939 90nm processor which will probably look like this:

http://www.zdnet.de/i/et/client/cpu/200402/ath64cg1.jpg


i should cover that entire surface with as5?

 

[jiffylube1024]

Originally posted by: Duvie
problem is AS5 is like peanut butter and doesn't spread like the good old days of AS2 and AS3...so much easrier to spread and sread thin.....

AS says the reason is to insure no air bubbles and the fact the core is actually quite small and the whole ihs actually does not need coverage....

I am using the thermal paste the hsf came with and I am running about equal to my best AS5 appliaction though now I put the fan back to blowing onto fins as per design....

2628mhz 1.52-1.54v max temp ( 57c CC 53c Speedfan (prime95)) 54c CC 50c iSpeedfan (FH units))

I heard that argument too (that the core is smaller and thus there's a hot spot in the middle of the IHS) but that doesn't really change the fact that the whole surface of the IHS should make contact with the HSF. I really have no idea which method works "better" though... I've heard varying opinions (like I said, the "spread uniformly across the whole core" method still works fine for me ).

AS5 isn't that thick for me - it's thicker, no doubt than AS2 or 3 but doesn't compare to the gunkiness of Ceramique - THAT stuff is a pain to spread!

Ah good ole AS3, easy to spread and had that slight greenish tint too. I think AS5 lasts longer, though, some of my old CPU's on PC's I built with AS2 or 3 have dry, hard arctic silver, while AS5 seems to stay liquidy a long time.

I stick with Arctic Silver and trust only them, especially after the OCZ II "oops, compound hardens in under a month" debacle.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Hmm. After reading all this AS-talk, I guess I'm a TIM-luddite - I'm still using the generic white paste that came with a monster Slot-1 heatsink from years back. (You don't need a lot of TIM to make it work, this small packet has lasted me a few years thus far. )

OTOH, it does dry out after about 2-3 years depending on temps. Does AS last that long or longer, without drying out? I figure most people upgrade more often than that, so it doesn't matter all that much. I don't see any huge thermal advantage to the "silver" stuff though. Maybe it might make a difference to those that own/use P4s, to prevent unwanted thermal throttling, but I don't see a need for any prior chips.

If any of you want to make a convincing argument otherwise, I'm all ears. I just think that it's more of a fad than science, kind of like all the lights and windows and other gunk that people put in their PCs. Is two degrees C going to make or break most overclocks? I figure case cooling and airflow makes more of a difference than choice of TIM does, and actual proper application of the TIM matters more than type of TIM, as evidenced by the OP of this thread.

 

[AnandThenMan]

AS3 does dry out, at least in my experience. It is not horrible but it does get dry and less effective. I have not had this happen with AS5 is seems much better in this regard. But any AS is far better then the generic goo you get with a 5 dollar HSF. You will not see massive temp. drops but even a few degrees is a good thing. I mainly use it because it lasts much longer than cheap compound. One tube lasts what seems like forever too.

If you are able to get a few MHZ more by using AS then you are pushing things very close to the edge in the first place.

 

[jiffylube1024]

Originally posted by: AnandThenMan
AS3 does dry out, at least in my experience. It is not horrible but it does get dry and less effective. I have not had this happen with AS5 is seems much better in this regard. But any AS is far better then the generic goo you get with a 5 dollar HSF. You will not see massive temp. drops but even a few degrees is a good thing. I mainly use it because it lasts much longer than cheap compound. One tube lasts what seems like forever too.

If you are able to get a few MHZ more by using AS then you are pushing things very close to the edge in the first place.

Yup, pretty much what I've seen too - AS2/3 getting hard/dry (in a couple athlon systems it seems to have gotten 'burnt' as well - around the GPU the Arctic Sliver has turned a burnt dark grey colour.

AS5 I have yet to see dry out. This stuff is really good quality.

Originally posted by: VirtualLarry
Hmm. After reading all this AS-talk, I guess I'm a TIM-luddite - I'm still using the generic white paste that came with a monster Slot-1 heatsink from years back. (You don't need a lot of TIM to make it work, this small packet has lasted me a few years thus far. )

OTOH, it does dry out after about 2-3 years depending on temps. Does AS last that long or longer, without drying out? I figure most people upgrade more often than that, so it doesn't matter all that much. I don't see any huge thermal advantage to the "silver" stuff though. Maybe it might make a difference to those that own/use P4s, to prevent unwanted thermal throttling, but I don't see a need for any prior chips.

If any of you want to make a convincing argument otherwise, I'm all ears. I just think that it's more of a fad than science, kind of like all the lights and windows and other gunk that people put in their PCs. Is two degrees C going to make or break most overclocks? I figure case cooling and airflow makes more of a difference than choice of TIM does, and actual proper application of the TIM matters more than type of TIM, as evidenced by the OP of this thread.

I don't think anyone needs to put in the effort for a huge argument for a quality TIM. It's not going to rock your world or make chicks dig you or brew you a cup of coffee or any of the other claims people make . It's marginally better than silicon gunk (although it's nice that stuff like AS5 doesn't seem to dry out, which is good).

Personally, I don't use anything but Artic Silver because I figure why not spend $5 buying a quality TIM that I can use on 15+ cores on my >$100 CPU in my $100 motherboard in my $1000 PC. In the grand scheme of things paying for AS5 is a drop in the bucket.

Even if it's only a few degrees cooler; why not use it? Just like how buying a quality PSU doesn't give you that slam-bang tangible improvement unless you're overclocking your stuff to the max, it's a peace of mind thing (for me, anyways).

Plus, I'm an overclocker, dammit, and we overclockers use only the best .

 

[Zebo]

All TIM is for is to fill microscopic valleys, not a thick layer. So what I do is apply a borderline transparent cloudy layer to both HS and processor uning latex gloves so my finger greese doen't harm cooling. then a put them together. I think this method works real well cause it's almost like glue when trying to separte. Also I don't see any bubbles getting in this way, not enough AS from air to hide in.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Originally posted by: jiffylube1024
It's marginally better than silicon gunk (although it's nice that stuff like AS5 doesn't seem to dry out, which is good).

Well, if it lasts longer between applications, in certain situations, that indeed would be a good thing, and would lower longer-term maintenance costs on the PC.

About "marginally" - that was kind of my point, that the performance advantages were really only marginal, and almost everything else you could do to improve cooling/airflow would give you better results for your effort. I'm not saying that AS isn't better than generic grease, but only that the gain from optimizing the type of TIM is much smaller than the other possible gains you could get from other cooling mods. For example, keeping my CPU and case fans free of dust, is about a 5C differential, and covering up the blowhole on the top of my case, is about a 2-3C differential. If a different choice of TIM makes a 1C differential, I guess I personally don't see all that much of a point in spending extra for it.

Originally posted by: jiffylube1024
Personally, I don't use anything but Artic Silver because I figure why not spend $5 buying a quality TIM that I can use on 15+ cores on my >$100 CPU in my $100 motherboard in my $1000 PC. In the grand scheme of things paying for AS5 is a drop in the bucket.

True, it's not that much more costly either, I suppose. The depreciation of the value of the parts in the PC probably costs you more over time than the TIM does.

Originally posted by: jiffylube1024
Even if it's only a few degrees cooler; why not use it? Just like how buying a quality PSU doesn't give you that slam-bang tangible improvement unless you're overclocking your stuff to the max, it's a peace of mind thing (for me, anyways). Plus, I'm an overclocker, dammit, and we overclockers use only the best .

But.. is it really noticeably better, or just another way to "rice up" your computer? Ok, I concede that AS is still probably a better investment than reflective-finish PSUs with fancy multi-colored blinking lights - at least AS has some measurable benefit. Not that there's anything wrong with adding "fun styling" to your PC either. I'm just not personally into those sorts of things. I'm more of a function-over-form kind of guy. I "uglified" my current case slightly to get better cooling, removed the front colored plastic cover and drilled lots of holes in it for the intake fan to use.

 

[imported_cerberus]

I got a tube of some unmarked paste when I bought a thermalright xp-90 heatsink. Any idea if this stuff is worthwhile, or if I should get some artic fox?

 

[jiffylube1024]

Originally posted by: VirtualLarry.

About "marginally" - that was kind of my point, that the performance advantages were really only marginal, and almost everything else you could do to improve cooling/airflow would give you better results for your effort. I'm not saying that AS isn't better than generic grease, but only that the gain from optimizing the type of TIM is much smaller than the other possible gains you could get from other cooling mods. For example, keeping my CPU and case fans free of dust, is about a 5C differential, and covering up the blowhole on the top of my case, is about a 2-3C differential. If a different choice of TIM makes a 1C differential, I guess I personally don't see all that much of a point in spending extra for it.

I've read differences of anywhere from 4-10C over stock silicon gunk, although maybe even this has improved in formula over the past few years. The point is for the (next to nothing) cost of putting AS5 on one core, why not use it?

Originally posted by: jiffylube1024
Even if it's only a few degrees cooler; why not use it? Just like how buying a quality PSU doesn't give you that slam-bang tangible improvement unless you're overclocking your stuff to the max, it's a peace of mind thing (for me, anyways). Plus, I'm an overclocker, dammit, and we overclockers use only the best .

But.. is it really noticeably better, or just another way to "rice up" your computer? Ok, I concede that AS is still probably a better investment than reflective-finish PSUs with fancy multi-colored blinking lights - at least AS has some measurable benefit. Not that there's anything wrong with adding "fun styling" to your PC either. I'm just not personally into those sorts of things. I'm more of a function-over-form kind of guy. I "uglified" my current case slightly to get better cooling, removed the front colored plastic cover and drilled lots of holes in it for the intake fan to use.
[/quote]

I definately wouldn't call Arctic Silver "rice" - you don't even see it! It's not like it adds a neon glow between your HSF and CPU or anything (hmmmmm ).

Plus how often do you see a guy list his specs as something like

AMD Athlon XP 3200+ @ 3900+, Arctic Silver cooled ... Not too often. It's just a practical thing to use.

As for dust, airflow, etc: of course, all of that is important too! But it's like modding a car; every little bit helps.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Originally posted by: jiffylube1024
I definately wouldn't call Arctic Silver "rice" - you don't even see it! It's not like it adds a neon glow between your HSF and CPU or anything (hmmmmm ).

You could be on to something there... better patent it before Antec or ThermalTake steals your idea.

Originally posted by: jiffylube1024
Plus how often do you see a guy list his specs as something like
AMD Athlon XP 3200+ @ 3900+, Arctic Silver cooled ... Not too often. It's just a practical thing to use.
As for dust, airflow, etc: of course, all of that is important too! But it's like modding a car; every little bit helps.

Well, ok. I guess if you put it that way - it could be compared to using synthetic motor oil rather than dino oil, helps keep temps down a little better, and resists "sludging".

In that case, my current "vehicle" isn't really a high-end performance jobbie, I''ll stick with plain old dino oil for now. Maybe next upgrade I'll switch.

 

[IRWILL]

:thumbsup:
:lips:
you R OT RETARTED DIPPOO

 

[zakee00]

yeah i just payed the $13 and got a huge tube of ASC from ZZF. good stuff, and i dont have to worry about it frying my $400 graphics card. the temp difference is more then 1C from generic paste, more like ~4C. not bad for the few pennies you spend on each cpu core

 

[chinkgai]

um...check out the date yo