Help me choose which is better

[Axiom23]

Hi guys,

Sorry I am new here so I am not sure if this is the right place to post this. But here is my dilemma.
I am looking for a PC for gaming and casual use (word, excel, IE, music, movies, email etc). I am on a budget so I can't really afford the best thing out there. At the moment I am confused between two machines. I should mention I dont plan to overclock my computer and the resolution of the monitor is 1920 x 1080. The specs are:

1)
AMD FX-8150 8-CORE Black Edition 3.6GHz CPU, Turbo Core 4.2GHz
- nVidia GTX680 2GB Video Card
- 8GB DDR3 RAM
- 2TB SATA 3 7200rpm HDD
- 24x Dual Layer DVD BURNER
- Onboard USB 3.0 & SATA 3 6Gb/s
- Bluetooth v2.0, Multi Card Reader
All-in-one AMD 970 Chipset Motherboard

2)
Intel Core i7 2600 3.4 GHz CPU, Turbo Boost 3.8GHz,
nVidia GeForce GTX580
Dual Channel 8GB RAM
1TB SATA 3 7200rpm HDD,
24x Dual Layer DVD BURNER
Onboard USB 3.0 & SATA 3 6Gb/s Ports, Bluetooth v2.0, Multi Card Reader
All-in-one Intel H67 Chipset Motherboard



I have heard a lot of bad things about the FX 8150 so I was wondering if it was worth taking a hit with the graphics card to get a better processor?
Also is there anything else I should look out for?

Thanks guys.

 

[lehtv]

Please answer the questions in the sticky. In particular, what's your budget, where are you buying from, when do you plan to build, do you already own peripherals + OS.

Gaming being the most demanding thing you put your PC under, you don't want a hyperthreaded processor, not to mention an octocore. Four fast cores with no HT is all you need. Since you don't plan to OC, i5-3550, i5-3450, i5-2500 or i5-2400 is the best choice for you

GTX 680 is $100 more expensive than GTX 670 but barely faster. GTX 580 is last generation, it's much slower than GTX 670 and uses more power.

 

[Axiom23]

I am from Australia and I was planning to buy the above computers on eBay (from Australia as well). My budget is AU $1500 but both the above systems are the same price. I don't really have a brand preference.

I was planning to buy it soon, I don't really have any parts that I can add to the system.

Since the above systems are not being built by me, I don't really have a say in what video card they use, although the machines with the gtx670 were generally more expensive (the first machine is a one off sale)

Would using the fx 8150 be a disadvantage if used for everyday use like too much power consumption? Since it was within my budget and I did intend to do gaming, I decided to go for a higher end CPU/machine.

 

[lehtv]

You should get better framerates with i7+GTX580 than FX8150+GTX680 because the i7 is a much better gaming CPU. GTX 680 would be severely bottlenecked by an FX-8150. However, you can do much better for $1500 if you order parts and build yourself, this priced from pccasegear:

i5-3450 $210
Asrock H77M $85
G.Skill 2x4GB DDR3 $55
Asus GTX 670 $530
Seagate 2TB 7200RPM $125
DVD burner $22
Antec HCG-520 $80 (no mention of PSU in your proposed pc's, this is probably better)
Antec 302 $80

= only $1187, better gaming performance than either of the eBay builds

Optionally add Crucial M4 128GB SSD $155

Would using the fx 8150 be a disadvantage if used for everyday use like too much power consumption?

No disadvantage in everyday use, but definitely a disadvantage in gaming due to low performance per core

Since it was within my budget and I did intend to do gaming, I decided to go for a higher end CPU/machine.

That's good thinking, but for your purposes, an i7-2600 is no more higher end than i5-3450. The FX-8100 octocore is only good for heavily multithreaded work, but even then it's not much better than an i5 with no hyperthreading (comparison)

 

[Axiom23]

You should get better framerates with i7+GTX580 than FX8150+GTX680 because the i7 is a much better gaming CPU. GTX 680 would be severely bottlenecked by an FX-8150. However, you can do much better for $1500 if you order parts and build yourself, this priced from pccasegear:

Sorry, just a correction, that is $1500 including the OS and the monitor. The actual machine is for around $1250. But yeah I guess I could build one for cheaper.

Thanks for your input

 

[lehtv]

Yep, I intentionally left some margin there for the monitor and OS, wasn't sure if you needed those

 

[mfenn]

"Budget" and "GTX X80" in the same post? Does not compute.

OP, of the machines you've listed, the i7 is a better gaming machine. Sure, the GTX 680 is a lot faster than a GTX 580, but it'll be severely bottlenecked by the FX CPU. Besides, the graphics card is much easier to upgrade later on than the CPU and motherboard.

EDIT: Lehtv's custom build suggestion is better than either though.

 

[Axiom23]

"Budget" and "GTX X80" in the same post? Does not compute.

OP, of the machines you've listed, the i7 is a better gaming machine. Sure, the GTX 680 is a lot faster than a GTX 580, but it'll be severely bottlenecked by the FX CPU. Besides, the graphics card is much easier to upgrade later on than the CPU and motherboard.

EDIT: Lehtv's custom build suggestion is better than either though.

If say I were to buy the i7 with the GTX580, could I buy another 580 when they become cheaper and have them SLI? or would that be bottlenecked by my CPU? Also would I have to upgrade other things e.g. more RAM?

Thanks again

 

[lehtv]

Several things:

1) H67 chipset doesn't support SLI

2) Not knowing what the power supply is, chances are it's not specced for SLI either

3) GTX580 will probably be out of stock sooner than it'll retail for a low enough price to be worth it new, so you'd have to SLI with another used card (ignoring 1 and 2)

4) Used GTX580 go for $300-350 on ebay.com.au... if you sold your 580 and bought a 670, that'd cost $200 net and you'd get a small boost in performance and lower power consumption... I'd probably wait until 700 series before upgrading

 

[Axiom23]

In that case I might just go with the 670. These are the specs of the machine with 670 that I am getting

Intel Core i7 2600 3.4 GHz CPU, Turbo Boost 3.8GHz, nVidia GeForce GTX670 with 2GB Ram
Dual Channel 8GB RAM, 1TB SATA 3 7200rpm HDD, 24x Dual Layer DVD BURNER
Onboard USB 3.0 & SATA 3 6Gb/s Ports, Bluetooth v2.0, Multi Card Reader

Its pretty much the same as the one with 580, and is about $70 more expensive (can't find any builds with the i5 3450). Im not very confident about building one because i've never built one before and wouldn't really have anyone to run to if I mess something up :/

 

[lehtv]

Im not very confident about building one because i've never built one before and wouldn't really have anyone to run to if I mess something up :/

Trust me, it's not difficult at all. Everyone's a first time builder once, and with the right instruction, even a ten year old could build a PC. It basically amounts to

1) install the CPU and the CPU cooler onto the motherboard
2) attach components into the case
3) connect cables from the PSU to the components
4) connect drives to the motherboard via SATA cables
5) connect wires from the case to the motherboard (power button, leds, USB, audio jack)
6) install add-on cards to PCI/PCIe slots (graphics card and what have you), connect power cables to add-on cards
7) connect peripherals to PC, connect PSU to wall, turn on PSU
8) power up, check BIOS settings and install Windows

There's not much you can mess up apart from forcing connectors in or handling components carelessly. Every step is reversible, if you do something wrong you can always go back and redo it.

Check out this rather unnecessarily lenghty but comperehensive newegg tutorial video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_56kyib-Ls&feature=relmfu

And of course, if you run into problems, you can always post here and explain the issue.

 

[BURNINGchicken3]

http://www.mwave.com.au/system.asp?...5CK3H3JV4VUQKIXMTXU3FGUV2I5PZNR4B3OL&sysID=44

set up with these parts
INTEL CPU 1155 SKU#19010248 - Intel Core i5 3450 3rd Gen Processor
INTEL MOTHERBOARD 1155 SKU#28023682 - Gigabyte GA-Z68P-DS3 - ATX
MEMORY DDR3 SKU#37140793 - A-RAM 8GB (2x 4GB) Value Series DDR3 Memory Kit
GRAPHICS CARD SKU#42051164 - Palit GeForce GTX 670 JETSTREAM - 2048MB 256-bit GDDR5
MAIN HARD DRIVE SKU#22040460 - Seagate Barracuda 500GB
OPTICAL DRIVE SKU#17040390 - Samsing 22x SATA DVD BURNER
POWER SUPPLY SKU#34040708 - Corsair GS-600 Gaming Series 600W Power Supply
OPERATING SYSTEM SKU#39090362 - Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium - SP1 - 64-Bit
MONITOR SKU#27140212 - Dell S2330MX 23" Ultra-Slim Monitor With LED
MWAVE & UNITED ELECTRICAL ONSITE WARRANTY SKU#61050008 - United Electrical Onsite Total Care - 1 Year Warranty
Total
$1,506.91

 

[lehtv]

Nice build overall. GS600 is good quality but I've read the fan is noisy. i5-3450 wont work on Z68 before the BIOS is updated, besides you can't OC i5-3450 so H77 or B75 would be more appropriate.

 

[Axiom23]

Nice build overall. GS600 is good quality but I've read the fan is noisy. i5-3450 wont work on Z68 before the BIOS is updated, besides you can't OC i5-3450 so H77 or B75 would be more appropriate.

There were no options for either of those two on there. I also just realised I can probably use the DVD drive and wifi adapter from my old pc on this one to save me some $. Will also open it up tomorrow to check the power supply to see if I can use that. What is the minimum I need with this setup?
Also I just need one CPU cooler yea? Does it matter what one I buy or just go with the cheapest one (Cooler Master Hyper TX3 EVO CPU Cooler)?

What website do you recommend buying parts from? Pccasegear or mwave or some other one? Since they both seem to have the same prices, id rather buy one from someone who has had good experiences with one.

 

[sm625]

God you just want to smack some people for blind fanboism. Of those two systems, the Bulldozer/GTX680 is going to be faster. Benchmarks show that a 680 is on average 20% faster in games, given the same cpu. And it uses 20% less power, which will completely offset the Bulldozer's increased power at a decent overclock. You may not want to OC now but it is nice to have that option open for down the road. The intel H67 slams that door closed.

In most games at 1080p, the two chips are within 10% of each other, wheras the gpu is on average 25% faster.

It's not like the BD/GTX680 system is going to totally choke on anything you throw at it. It does get beaten by some 30-40% in some games like SC2, Civ 5. But the GTX680 delivers a similar level of smackdown on a 580 in a great deal more games.

Its gpu is clearly more efficient and futureproof which makes it the better buy overall. Games released 3 years from now will run even better on a 680+BD than on a 580+2600.

 

[lehtv]

Its gpu is clearly more efficient and futureproof which makes it the better buy overall. Games released 3 years from now will run even better on a 680+BD than on a 580+2600.

I have to disagree about this. The GPU is always easier to upgrade. i7-2600 will take a GPU much faster than GTX680 before it's obsolete, while bulldozer will be dozing already with GTX680 in many titles even when OC'd.

What is the minimum I need with this setup?

Since you're not planning to OC, a decent quality 500W unit with >450W on the +12V would run the system (GTX580 or GTX680).

Also I just need one CPU cooler yea? Does it matter what one I buy or just go with the cheapest one (Cooler Master Hyper TX3 EVO CPU Cooler)?

Again since you're not planning to OC, the stock cooler should be fine as far as temps are concerned, no aftermarket cooling needed.

 

[mfenn]

I have to disagree about this. The GPU is always easier to upgrade. i7-2600 will take a GPU much faster than GTX680 before it's obsolete, while bulldozer will be dozing already with GTX680 in many titles even when OC'd.

You mean that the GTX 680 will be dozing (i.e. not working to its fullest) already with a Bulldozer? If so, :thumbsup:

 

[lehtv]

Yes, that's what I meant lol.

 

[Axiom23]

Also, why did you recommend the i5 3450 instead of the 3550/3570K/2500K. I understand I won't be needing the i7 2600k because I won't really be needing the hyperthreading, but I couldn't decide between the different i5s. Also I couldn't find any benchmarks on the 3450.

Thanks

 

[lehtv]

3570K and 2500K are unlocked processors meant for overclockers, you said you didn't want to OC.

i5-3570K = 3.4GHz (3.8GHz turbo), unlocked multiplier (meant for overclocking)
i5-3550 = 3.3GHz (3.7GHz turbo)
i5-3450 = 3.1Ghz (3.5GHz turbo)

So pick either of i5-3550 or i5-3450. i5-3550 is a bit more expensive and a bit faster.

 

[Axiom23]

Ok this is the the build I am about to order, can you verify if everything is ok:

Palit GeForce GTX 670 2GB Jetstream

Intel Core i5 3550

ASRock B75M Motherboard

Corsair CMX8GX3M2A1600C9 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3

Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB WD1002FAEX (with this one, I chose the 'black' model as opposed to the 'green' one because it said it was better for gaming. It was more expensive, is it worth? Also how is the seagate barracuda? That one was also cheaper)

LG GH24NS90 24x SATA DVD-RW Drive OEM

Corsair GS-600 Power Supply

CoolerMaster Elite 334U Case

Do I need to buy the cables/wires or do they come with the case? Also what about the USB slots etc, come with the case as well?

 

[sm625]

On a GIGABYTE GA-Z77-D3H, it is just a simple slider adjustment to make the chip run at the max turbo. I wouldnt even consider that overclocking. I would make sure I got a board that can do it.

 

[DSF]

Do I need to buy the cables/wires or do they come with the case? Also what about the USB slots etc, come with the case as well?

I'm not sure exactly which cables and wires you're talking about, but this is all I can think of:

All of the power cords will either come attached to the PSU (non-modular) or bundled with the PSU (modular).

All of the connectors that are a part of the case (power button, reset button, HDD LED, etc.) will come with the case.

All of the cables necessary for connecting devices to the motherboard (SATA cables, etc.) will come with the motherboard. If you buy retail versions of the drives, as opposed to OEM, they may come with the drives as well.

Unless you're trying to order something specific (like a different color of cable for a case with a side window) everything you need will come with your parts.

 

[lehtv]

Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB WD1002FAEX (with this one, I chose the 'black' model as opposed to the 'green' one because it said it was better for gaming. It was more expensive, is it worth? Also how is the seagate barracuda? That one was also cheaper)

The black model is indeed better than green, you shouldn't really install an OS on a green drive, they're meant for storage. OS's, programs, games etc. belong on 7200rpm drives or SSD's.

The Seagate is probably a bit faster (higher density platters) and twice the capacity while costing less. But if you don't need that much space you might as well go with a Seagate 1TB drive for $99: http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=19747

You don't need a 600W power supply. I'd rather get the Antec HCG-520 I linked to earlier.

The CM 334U case is very basic and comes only with one 120mm exhaust fan. I think it'd be a good idea to get at least an Antec 300. That is also a basic case but comes with two fans and it's more sturdily built with only steel and no plastic. Antec 302 would be even better, it has better cable management and USB3.0 ports that you can connect to your motherboard.

Other than that I think your build looks pretty good. Too bad the Asus card is out of stock.

 

[Axiom23]

Other than that I think your build looks pretty good. Too bad the Asus card is out of stock.

I did find the ASUS card in another store. Do you think its worth the extra price? What about the Gigabyte GeForce GTX 670 OC 2GB?

This is what my order looks like now (I almost forgot about your initial post lehtv, so I kinda updated the changes):

Palit GeForce GTX 670 2GB Jetstream

Intel Core i5 3550

Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit with SP1 OEM

LG E2441V-BN 24inch LED Widescreen Monitor

ASRock H77M Motherboard (didnt get the Z68 because that needs a BIOS update and would just confuse me )

G.Skill Ripjaws X F3-10666CL9D-8GBXL (2x4GB) DDR3

Seagate Barracuda 2TB ST2000DM001

Samsung SH-222BB SATA DVDRW Drive OEM

Antec High Current Gamer 520W Power Supply HCG-520

Antec Three Hundred Two Case