HELP ME CHOOSE! (please...)

[TBSN]

Hey,

I've been researching for quite a while, deciding what type of system to build for what I will be using it for. It's going to be an Intel C2D system, using XP Pro (for now). One of the most important choices, the motherboard, has yet to be made. I'm on the fence between two very different boards because I dont know which one would be best for what I need the computer for.

I am going to use this PC for several functions, such as gaming, video editting and graphic work. Here are the two different boards I've narrowed it down to, along with the features that make them appeal to me.

Asus P5B Deluxe Intel P965 Chipset (~$186 w/ s&h)
-Overclocks well (I would like to OC as much as possible, even though I don't have much experience with it. I'll just have to learn)
-Supposedly very stable (P965 has been out for a while now)
-Supports RAID on Intel ICH8R (I will not start out with a RAID setup, but as I begin to use the computer as an editing rig it will be useful)
-External eSATA port and 1x 1394a
-Supports 2 (individual) videocards, one at x16 and one at x2

Asus P5N32-E Plus Nvidia 650i chipset, or "Nvidia Dual x16 SLI" (~$200 w/ s&h)
-Supposedly overclocks as well as the 680 chipset
-Native support for IDE, SATA and SATA RAID
-Support for 2 x16 SLI, or two seperate cards for multiple monitors
-1333 FSB supported (useful to "future-proof" the board, in case I get a quad-core CPU down the road)
-"unlinked" memory, also supports 1T command rate*

* I am not sure how the 'unlinked' memory works, or how it differs from using memory dividers. 1T command rate is, AFAIK, a timing setting that can improve performance at lower speeds such as 800-900Mhz DDR, right?

So, if I were to use this computer simply for gaming my choice would be easier I think. AFAIK the most important factors of game performance are, in order of importance, the GPU, a decent CPU that can keep up with it, a decent HD and you're set. Besides gaming though, the other things that I'm looking for are the ability to use (good) external drives (I.E. 1394 firewire or possibly eSATA) and RAID. I don't know what it is that most affects performance in video/ graphics applications, but I would imagine being able to overclock the RAM and/or set it to 1T would help a lot. Also, although I'm not sure I'll being using SLI, being able to run two cards at full x16 speed might be useful if I need multiple monitors.

Sorry if this is a really long post, but I just want to compare the two boards in terms of what I'm going to need and which one (or other board for that matter) will be best in this situation. Any Help would be greatly appreciated!

BN


P.S.: Now I'm seeing this new P5B board, called the P5B 'plus' or 'premium' Vista edition... Any word on how that board is, is it an upgrade from the Deluxe or is it just another version or something... Is it the refresh? Thanks Again!

 

[JechtShot]

Going by reviews alone and the board that I want in my next build, I say Asus P5N32-E Plus. It seems like it has minor issues?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131153

 

[moosey]

I'd get an Intel chipset unless I needed something specific that the nvidia offers.

 

[JechtShot]

Well I think if he plans to overclock, the ASUS would be a better choice because the 6**i chipsets was targeted towards overclocking.

 

[TBSN]

Does anyone have experience with either of these boards? The nvidia one is pretty new, so I don't know yet what issues it may have or whatnot...

 

[TBSN]

bump...

 

[GuitarDaddy]

The P5B deluxe is the more mature and likely most trouble free, it is also pretty much regarded as the current overclocking champ. But like all P965 boards requires high speed ram for good overclocking because the lowest you can run your memory is 1:1 (no dividers, only multipliers) It also has more features

The P5N is the newer chipset and seems to be more quirky at this point. But it does have the the advantage of running the memory "unlinked" which means you can overclock the CPU while leaving the ram at stock speeds, enabling you to get good overclocks with cheap ram. And the 1T does improve ram bandwidth, but that really doesn't provide much real world performance but it does help quite a bit in benchmarks like SuperPI

 

[TBSN]

What about RAID support? I've heard that the p965 has some problems with RAID and IDE drives at the same time or something...

 

[Fullmetal Chocobo]

Intel chipset. Dear god I will never recommend the Asus P5N32-E SLI Plus to anyone. I hate the board that I have. Maybe I will enjoy the board once I can get it stable with another brand / type of RAM, but for now, I hate it.

EDIT: If you do choose the Asus P5N32-E SLI Plus, you might find this thread about memory useful.

 

[TBSN]

Originally posted by: Fullmetal Chocobo
Intel chipset. Dear god I will never recommend the Asus P5N32-E SLI Plus to anyone. I hate the board that I have. Maybe I will enjoy the board once I can get it stable with another brand / type of RAM, but for now, I hate it.

What was wrong with the board you have? I will def check out that link...

 

[Fullmetal Chocobo]

Originally posted by: TBSN

Originally posted by: Fullmetal Chocobo
Intel chipset. Dear god I will never recommend the Asus P5N32-E SLI Plus to anyone. I hate the board that I have. Maybe I will enjoy the board once I can get it stable with another brand / type of RAM, but for now, I hate it.

What was wrong with the board you have? I will def check out that link...

Initial setup went rather well (just don't forget to install the 8-pin power cable before you mount the mobo, as it can be hard to reach). Then the memory issues started. I originally had 4 sticks (2x1gb, 2x512mb) of Crucial Ballistix PC2-6400 RAM in there. System was completely unstable. It would freeze at the BIOS screen, then freeze while trying to boot up the Windows CD. I removed two sticks, back and forth, and finally got the system up and running using 2x1gb sticks in the white slots. Started doing updates, and then I couldn't get an IP off of my network. Checked the other machines, changed cables, all that. Finally took a brerak, watched some TV, while researching on the laptop. Found out it might be an issue with the onboard NIC, so I turned off the computer, turned off the PSU, and removed the power cable. Plugged everything back in, turned on the PSU, and turned on the computer. Worked fine.

20 hours into the build (I've never had a computer give me this much trouble), Windows and main programs are installed, and I start to OC, just a bit. The Crucial RAM I had was spec'd at 4-4-4-12 @ 2.1v. I had the memory set at 5-5-5-18 @ 1.85v. Any change, and the system would become unstable. I got the E6400 from 2.13GHz to 2.6GHz--anything above, and the system would freeze. So I get home from work, and the system is froze at the BIOS splash screen.

With two sticks of RAM installed, I get a constant beep from the PC speaker. One stick installed, and the machine boots. So I RMAd the RAM (all 4 sticks) for a refund, and I'm going to try some OCZ 900MHz DDR2. Hopefully it was just the RAM, and the mobo is fine. But with all of the reports I've been reading, I don't believe this mobo is worth messing with.

My last motherboard was a dual Xeon Supermicro X5DAE, Intel E7505 chipset. I miss it terribly. Even if couldn't OC, the thing was rock solid. But I am going to keep this mobo for now, and hope that it works out. Atleast I got my RAID arrays configured before the system went down....

 

[craftech]

The problem as I see it is finding a board that suits one's needs and also has good quality control. I see a lot of complaints about ASUS on the net in terms of poor quality control. Not that they are alone in that respect. Not that many years ago motherboards were among the least complained about computer parts as fas as them being DOA or "failed after two weeks". And the complaints these days don't just come from overclockers either. Even some of the Intel models have had quality control complaints which really sucks.

John

 

[TBSN]

Wow, that really is a pain in the ass. Do you know if the Asus P5N32-E 680i (not the PLUS version) is any more stable, or would it have the same problems? I hope you get the board working....

 

[Fullmetal Chocobo]

Originally posted by: craftech
The problem as I see it is finding a board that suits one's needs and also has good quality control. I see a lot of complaints about ASUS on the net in terms of poor quality control. Not that they are alone in that respect. Not that many years ago motherboards were among the least complained about computer parts as fas as them being DOA or "failed after two weeks". And the complaints these days don't just come from overclockers either. Even some of the Intel models have had quality control complaints which really sucks.

John

And the hard part is sorting out the truly bad boards, and the operator-error failures.

 

[agathodaimon]

What's that? an ASUS board with stability problems.?? Unthinkable!

I would also like to know if the 650i chipset is a good one to go with. I need to build a gaming rig for a friend soon, and the MSI P6N SLI-F looks great.

 

[TBSN]

AFAIK, the Asus P5N32-E Plus is not the same 650i chipset as the P5N-E, for example. It gets kind of confusing because 650, 680, etc are just names for the entire chipset as a whole, so when southbridge and northbridge are mixed and matched, like with the p5n32-e plus, it's hard to say it's a "650i" or "680i", etc. At least thats what I've gathered from trying to research this stuff....

Fullmetal Chocobo: do you think that the problems you're having are related to the memory being incompatable with the mobo, or are there real instability problems with the board? (I guess it will be hard to know until you get new ram...)

Thanks

 

[Fullmetal Chocobo]

Originally posted by: TBSN
AFAIK, the Asus P5N32-E Plus is not the same 650i chipset as the P5N-E, for example. It gets kind of confusing because 650, 680, etc are just names for the entire chipset as a whole, so when southbridge and northbridge are mixed and matched, like with the p5n32-e plus, it's hard to say it's a "650i" or "680i", etc. At least thats what I've gathered from trying to research this stuff....

Fullmetal Chocobo: do you think that the problems you're having are related to the memory being incompatable with the mobo, or are there real instability problems with the board? (I guess it will be hard to know until you get new ram...)

Thanks

What is really crazy is the fact that the P5N32-E SLI Plus isn't a 680i motherboard like the P5N32-E SLI. It is instead a "hybrid", with a different chipset altogether. The northbrdige is 650i and southbridge is 590 (link).

As of yet, I am unsure if it was a) bad RAM, b) incompatibilities with the RAM, c) bad RAM slots on the motherboard, d) mobo instability, e) something else or any combination of the above. Once the RMA goes through, I should have a better idea of what is going on, and hopefully it will just be bad RAM.

 

[TBSN]

OK, thanks for the info. I'll be reading the topics on this mobo (I am not doing the buid for a month or so, so i guess I have some time to decide...)

 

[Fullmetal Chocobo]

Well, after getting new RAM and then having the same issues, I contacted Asus. The person on the phone was actually very helpful and verified all the stuff that I had done thus far. It was deemed that the motherboard has a bad memory controller, and it was RMAed to Newegg for a replacement. Hopefully the next one will work.

 

[TBSN]

Thanks a lot for filling me in as to how your mobo problems have been going... Too bad you had to RMA the RAM when the board was the one at fault, but hopefully your new board will be as good as it should be!

If this board performs like its supposed to, it'll be worth all the waiting (although it would've been better if they didn't send you a faulty board in the first place!)

 

[AstroDogg]

I'm surprised no on has pointed this out. If you want to run 2 cards at 16X you will have to go with the 46 express lanes of the 680i chipset over the 18 lanes with the 650i chipset. You will have to have the latest most demanding card to take advantage. A year or so down the road though it should be the normal to see even the mid-level cards exceeding 8x. As for now if your not spending $350 or more on a card it may not benifit dual 16x PCi-e slots. Another thing you may want to research is if you can even enable 16x in two of the expansion slots without inserting the SLi mode of the switch card. I'm sure you already know that when you run two cards in SLi it renders only one out-put of the two cards feed. Which is video1 of the first card the other three out-puts are not useable while SLi is engaged. A single card can run two monitors or with the right card four monitors with a splitter. How many displays are you talking here?

 

[TBSN]

I believe that the Asus P5N32-e PLUS has 2x 16x slots, both capable of running at the full 16x speed (46 express lanes) Can anyone confirm this?

I am going to have only ONE card to begin with, but I am not sure whether or not I will add another card somewhere down the road as an upgrade. That is one of the reasons I thought that the P5N32-e Plus would be a good "future-proof" board. If it doesn't actually have 2 "real" x16 slots, then I will probably go with the P5N32-E (680i).I will also start out with only one monitor.

I was thinking that if I get a very capable mobo now, upgrading in the future will be easier b/c it allows for SLI, RAID, quad-core CPUs, etc...

 

[Fullmetal Chocobo]

Originally posted by: TBSN
Thanks a lot for filling me in as to how your mobo problems have been going... Too bad you had to RMA the RAM when the board was the one at fault, but hopefully your new board will be as good as it should be!

If this board performs like its supposed to, it'll be worth all the waiting (although it would've been better if they didn't send you a faulty board in the first place!)

Well, the RMA was recieved. I rebuilt the machine over the course of two days. Everything went very well. The system is now up and running, and very stable. I haven't done any OCing, due to the fact that I can only run the fan @ 5v right now, and I'm temp limited at this point. The fan controller will get here soon though, and then I'll test out the OC. But I'm extremely pleased. I had no problems with the OCZ 900 MHz RAM, and any OCing I've done has been with the FSB & MEM unlinked.

 

[TBSN]

Cool. Do you know for sure if this board has the full 46 express lanes (2 x16 PCIe slots), like the 680i?

 

[Fullmetal Chocobo]

Originally posted by: TBSN
Cool. Do you know for sure if this board has the full 46 express lanes (2 x16 PCIe slots), like the 680i?

Yes it does. 2 full 16X, and one 16X that operates at 8X.