Help me build a new system!

[Waylay00]

I built my first rig back in 2005 after some careful research. Well, it payed off, as my system has lasted me well over these years. However, it's starting to show its age, and I want to build a new system from scratch.

I'm aiming around a budget of $1500 (USD), not including speakers, keyboard, mouse, or monitor. I don't really have a brand preference, but my ASUS motherboard has been extremely good (no stability issues whatsoever). So has my OCZ RAM.

I know that there will always be better hardware around the corner, but are there any plans for any major new releases within the next four months (chipsets, memory types, CPU cores, etc.)?

Anyways I will primarily be using the system for gaming, although I plan on doing some home recording and some light, basic home video editing. I would like to have at least 320GB of storage at the minimum.

I don't overclock much, but I do a little. For example, my Thermalright XP-90 (w/ 92mm Panaflo) on my 3700+ has been adequate for my needs.

Here are some things that I'd like to do better on this build than the last one:

- I'd like a case with a removable mobo tray. Working inside my cramped Thermaltake Tsunami has been a pain!
- As stated above, I'd like more storage compared to my minuscule 74GB on my current WD Raptor.
- I'd probably like a fan controller so I can obtain some quietness while recording.

Anyways, thanks for the help!
Wade

 

[MarcVenice]

There's a TON of these allready, you should really try piecing out some of the components yourself.

Check this thread, and read my reply: http://forums.anandtech.com/me...=2164295&enterthread=y It should give you the basics of your build.

Here's a decent fancontroller: http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16811998808 Can be had in silver to. Don't know of any other on the top of my head.

On your budget you should be able to afford something like this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16822152100 very fast and quiet, plenty of space.

Case, I know you want a removable tray, I don't know of any that have on the top of my head though. I'd still like to suggest this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16811129025 it's really quiet, comes with 3 pretty quiet fans, provides pretty decent/good airflow, and well, I got one myself and I love it. Let me see if I can find a nice case with a removable tray though. You go look for some components yourself

EDIT:

I suppose this is a nice case with a removable mobo tray: http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16811112155

 

[imported_wired247]

Love my case to freakin death... and the cool thing is not very many people have one

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16811112155


mobo tray, check
really awesome cable routing, check
good I/O ports, check
excellent airflow, check
filters, check
lots of space for the longest video cards, check
100% silent and vibration free HD mounts, check


I built a rig for my friend with the thermaltake tsunami... I agree it was a pain to work in... next friend that wants a computer does NOT get a choice of case!

 

[Waylay00]

Here's a quick system I threw together around $1500:

Lian Li PC-A17B Black Aluminum ATX Mid Tower Computer Case

ASUS P5K PREMIUM/WIFI-AP LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard

eVGA GeForce 8800GTS (G92) 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card

OCZ GameXStream OCZ700GXSSLI ATX12V 700W Power Supply

Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale 3.0GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor

OCZ Reaper HPC 4GB(2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory

Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 ST3500320AS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive

SAMSUNG 20X DVD±R DVD Burner with LightScribe Black SATA Model SH-S203N - OEM

Microsoft Windows XP Professional With SP2C - OEM

That leaves me just over the $1500 mark: right where I want to be. Any thoughts?

Should I go with XP Pro or Vista (are the problems solved yet)?

Also, does that mobo support the new Wolfdale processors?

Thanks

 

[imported_wired247]

system is definitely looking good, but prepare to be met with recommendations for another PSU, that one is a bit overpowered and most likely overpriced for what you are building.

90+% of recommenders here will say something like the corsair HX520/620. I always prefer more overhead so I'd say 620.


You do not need DDR2-1066 RAM unless you are trying to blow the top off your FSB via overclocking.

The P5K should support 45nm processors just fine, at most you'll need a bios update.


I'd go with 64 bit vista home premium -- I really haven't run into any problems yet *shrug* ... it may not be ready for enterprise, but for home users it's just fine.


That case would be just fine, but I'd reconsider the one I recommended which is $50 cheaper and I can practically guarantee it'll be easier to work with.

 

[Waylay00]

Originally posted by: wired247
system is definitely looking good, but prepare to be met with recommendations for another PSU, that one is a bit overpowered and most likely overpriced for what you are building.

90+% of recommenders here will say something like the corsair HX520/620. I always prefer more overhead so I'd say 620.


You do not need DDR2-1066 RAM unless you are trying to blow the top off your FSB via overclocking.

The P5K should support 45nm processors just fine, at most you'll need a bios update.


I'd go with 64 bit vista home premium -- I really haven't run into any problems yet *shrug* ... it may not be ready for enterprise, but for home users it's just fine.


That case would be just fine, but I'd reconsider the one I recommended which is $50 cheaper and I can practically guarantee it'll be easier to work with.

I'll look into those recommendations.

I picked DDR1066 because that motherboard natively recognizes it.

 

[chinaman1472]

Natively isn't a good word to choose there. It recognizes UP TO 1066, but it supports everything below it and recognizes all those the same way. The most optimal performance I believe is running your RAM and FSB at a 1:1 ratio. So for a DDR2-1066, you'd have to run your FSB for your CPU at 533MHz. I believe the stock rating for a E8400 is at 333MHz.

 

[Waylay00]

D'oh! How'd I miss that!

Thanks for pointing that out.

I've also changed my PSU selection to the Corsair 620-HX.

 

[aigomorla]

ummm....

How long do you intend on keeping this machine? Is this something your going to turn over in about one year?

If you intend on holding onto it for some time like your AMD, might i recomend you skip dualcore and jump straight to quadcore?

Also you said your not a heavy overclocker, then you dont even need a wolfdale, unless you intend on doing intensive SSE4 instructions. So if you grab a Q6600 over during the price drop in april you could only win in your system overall. The quad would be faster in encoding, and editing. Also compiling with a multi threaded application, there is no way a wolfdale would catch up.

For hard drives, can you recycle your raptor? Use it as a main OS drive, and get another large capacity storage drive.

For GPU, your not going to sli. Your board doesnt support it. And unless your running a 24, i dont think you'll see a difference between a 8800GTS vs a 9600GT.

 

[Waylay00]

I intend on keeping it for about two years.

- When do the next batch of quad cores come out? I would like to jump to quad-core if possible.

- For gaming would the Q6600 be slower than the Wolfdale?

- I could recycle my Raptor. I'd need to get a HDD for my old computer (which I still plan to use), but I guess that wouldn't be a problem.

- What is the difference between the 9600GT and the 8800GTS? (BTW, I'm running a 22" widescreen Samsung 225BW)

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: Waylay00
I intend on keeping it for about two years.

- When do the next batch of quad cores come out? I would like to jump to quad-core if possible.

- For gaming would the Q6600 be slower than the Wolfdale?

- I could recycle my Raptor. I'd need to get a HDD for my old computer (which I still plan to use), but I guess that wouldn't be a problem.

- What is the difference between the 9600GT and the 8800GTS? (BTW, I'm running a 22" widescreen Samsung 225BW)

the next batch are the yorkfields which is basically 2 wolfdales stamped on the same pcb. I would look for the Q9450 if you want the newer gen quads.

In gaming terms you wont see squat difference between the two chips. A E8400 @ 4.3ghz vs my Q6600 @ 3.7ghz, i saw very little difference if any. Well supreme commander i saw a big difference on the quad, becuase thats a quad core optimized game.

The raptor is still a fast drive. Theres a reason why people say the new large capcity drives are as fast as raptors. Well if you have one, why replace it? Add onto it by using it, and dropping a higher capacity drive for storage.

Your resolution is capped at 1680x1050. If you google 9600GT benchmarks, you'll see it lies almost smack even with a 8800GTS. :T

A better route maybe going Xfire, grab a HD3870 now, see if you need the gpu power, and grab another in the future. Asus supports Xfire.

Oh another thing about that board, its kinda outdated... The P5E series would be better, and so is the maximus. Are you getting it for a discount? because i remember that board being kinda pricey.

http://www.motherboardpro.com/...oard-Retail-p-531.html

is a hot board right now. You might want to consider it as well. :T

If your pockets are a bit deeper, i suggest you find this board:
http://www.motherboardpro.com/...ket-775-ATX-p-405.html

It has to be the best board i ever got my hands on, stabilty as well as overclocking ability.

 

[Waylay00]

I probably will be getting a discount on ASUS boards, considering that's what the place where I will be working stocks.

What's the difference between the new ASUS Rampage X48 board and the P5E3 Premium X48 board?

 

[MarcVenice]

I don't like Crossfire as an upgrade path, either get 2 HD3870's right now, or don't bother at all ? And imo, you're better of with a 9600gt or 8800gt, which cost less or the same as a HD3870, but offer similar or better performance. Kind of sad to see all the rebates on the 9600gt's, and almost none on the HD3870's.

And Aigo, you might not see a difference between a 3.7ghz qaud, and a 4.3ghz e8400, but that's because you're no longer CPU limited. There's definately a difference between a 2.4ghz q6600, and a 3.0ghz e8400, especially in games not optimized for more then 2 cores, which is basicaly 90% of the games out there.

Also, I know you love those x38/x48 mobo's, but those are pretty much enthusiast overclocking motherboards, of which he is basicaly doing none ? A p35 mobo probably would do the trick, unless he's getting a REALLY big discount on those mobo's, then I suppose it would be a nice thing to have. Only negative is that he won't have dual pci-e 16x slots, but I don't really think Crossfire is the way to go. Rather get a 200$ 8800gt(s) now, and spend another 300$ in 12 months on the next-gen cards, then getting a really expensive mobo, especially since he isn't deadset on Crossfire.

As for the 9600gt vs 8800gts 512mb, I could only find this as quickly as time allowed, http://en.expreview.com/2008/0...9600gt-review/?page=12 and it shows the 8800gt being 13% faster on average then the 9600gt. In comparison, the 8800gts is about 10% faster then a 8800gt. So I would have to disagree with aigo's statement of the 9600gt being smack even with the 8800gts. And I'm not nitpicking, I'm talking a good 15-25% difference between a 9600gt and a 8800gts 512mb, even at 1680*1050.

Just my 2 cents worth

 

[heyheybooboo]

As you noted there is always newer faster, less expensive hardware 'around the corner'. Build smart - buy what you need today with reasonable expansion options .

You could get away with spending alot less money -almost across the board on everything you spec'ed - and still end up right where you want to be ... and pocket $500-$600 easily.

If you start with the 8800gt you may consider ....

An Intel Allendale proc and an Asus P5K SE; or
An AMD X2 5400+ and an Asus M3A - 770.

Today's dual core CPUs combined with the mid-range offerings from nVidia and ATI will easily offer twice the horsepower of your 7800gt - with less wattage

You are to be commended for your allegiance to Asus but there are great alternatives out there that offer similar performance and multiple options and specs - many for less cash.

Unless you will be utilizing software which you know will specificly support parallel threads across four cores (like Adobe Premiere) there is little reason to purchase a quad core cpu.

You can invest the money you save in a Line6, interface and midi keyboard

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: MarcVenice
I don't like Crossfire as an upgrade path, either get 2 HD3870's right now, or don't bother at all ? And imo, you're better of with a 9600gt or 8800gt, which cost less or the same as a HD3870, but offer similar or better performance. Kind of sad to see all the rebates on the 9600gt's, and almost none on the HD3870's.

And Aigo, you might not see a difference between a 3.7ghz qaud, and a 4.3ghz e8400, but that's because you're no longer CPU limited. There's definately a difference between a 2.4ghz q6600, and a 3.0ghz e8400, especially in games not optimized for more then 2 cores, which is basicaly 90% of the games out there.

very true mark.

however, i dont think any game would be limited by a c2d running @ 3.2ghz or higher, so hence you shouldnt see any difference between an overclocked quad and an overclocked wolfdale.

Because my brothers E6600 @ 3.4ghz still keeps up with my Q6600 in games. And there isnt much of a difference between 3.2 and 3.4 besides 200mhz in game performance. :T

:] that a better explaination?

Originally posted by: MarcVenice

As for the 9600gt vs 8800gts 512mb, I could only find this as quickly as time allowed, http://en.expreview.com/2008/0...9600gt-review/?page=12 and it shows the 8800gt being 13% faster on average then the 9600gt. In comparison, the 8800gts is about 10% faster then a 8800gt. So I would have to disagree with aigo's statement of the 9600gt being smack even with the 8800gts. And I'm not nitpicking, I'm talking a good 15-25% difference between a 9600gt and a 8800gts 512mb, even at 1680*1050.

Just my 2 cents worth

This part i was saying it might be a better solution because of the overall value. I dont think he's gonna benifit from the extra 2-3fps in games he's gonna get. Also the price difference with the rabates floating around is kinda steep. Sometimes as much as 80 dollars cheaper for the 9600GT. IVe seen these buys bottom at 189.99 compared to the 250 you still need to pay for the GTS.

Also i was basing my comment off this and some others, Everyone says the 8800GT is much better then the GTS in value. The 9600 seems to be doing great against a GT!
http://techreport.com/articles.x/14168/1

Also remember he's resolution is capped at the 1680x1050. Not at the 1920x1200 which 24's are. And yes theres a hugh difference in game performance between the two, expecially when you start playing with AA and AF.

If you can afford the GTS go get it a better solution would be waiting on the 9800GX2, or even the HD3870 X2, however, some people cant justify spending more then 300 for a videocard. (only my opinion)

Remember OP, this is only a recomendation, listen to everyone and decide yourself which path is the best.

Personally when i build a computer, i make sure my core isnt Cheaped. The Core is the Board Cpu Ram and PSU.

Reason why i say core, if you mess up on one of thoes parts, your entire overclocking goes down the drain. :T

 

[Waylay00]

Thanks for the informative debates guys. It really sheds some light onto the subject at hand.

 

[MarcVenice]

I agree, a 3.0ghz c2d is enough CPU power for some time to come, but that does mean he has to overclock a q6600 from 2.4ghz to 3.0ghz. If he doesn't, I think it's better to get the e8400, for his gaming needs of course. That's all I'm saying.

As for the 8800gts 512mb, it's as cheap as 215-220$, for an overclocked MSI card. That's pretty good value if you ask me, and although the 8800gt might be BETTER bang for buck, he does seem to want a little extra, which I think the 8800gts 512mb offers, definately compared to a 9600gt, which of course is a FAIR bit cheaper, as cheap as 155$ for a overclocked MSI card. That techreport review didn't use THAT many games btw, and like I said, the 8800gts 512mb offers around 15-25% extra performance over the 9600gt, @ 1680*1050, and might make the difference in new, still to come games as well.

 

[Waylay00]

What about the Q9300 Yorktown? How's that supposed to fair?

 

[heyheybooboo]

Originally posted by: Waylay00
What about the Q9300 Yorktown? How's that supposed to fair?

Hard to say - roughly Q6600'ish.

2.5GHz, 1333 fsb but only half the cache - can't recall what the multi is ...

 

[Waylay00]

Well, here's the deal. Back when I built my S939 rig, dual core was just starting to catch on. However, everyone assured me that I wouldn't need dual-core and that the 3700+ Winchester would suit me fine...However, it turned out to be a decision I would later regret. It seems as if this situation is the same (some people telling me to go dual-core, some telling me to go quad-core...).

 

[jterrell]

Originally posted by: MarcVenice
I agree, a 3.0ghz c2d is enough CPU power for some time to come, but that does mean he has to overclock a q6600 from 2.4ghz to 3.0ghz. If he doesn't, I think it's better to get the e8400, for his gaming needs of course. That's all I'm saying.

As for the 8800gts 512mb, it's as cheap as 215-220$, for an overclocked MSI card. That's pretty good value if you ask me, and although the 8800gt might be BETTER bang for buck, he does seem to want a little extra, which I think the 8800gts 512mb offers, definately compared to a 9600gt, which of course is a FAIR bit cheaper, as cheap as 155$ for a overclocked MSI card. That techreport review didn't use THAT many games btw, and like I said, the 8800gts 512mb offers around 15-25% extra performance over the 9600gt, @ 1680*1050, and might make the difference in new, still to come games as well.

I wish we had a review of the particular cards instead of weaksauce reference ones. Like you, I am a big fan of the MSI cards with sweet cooling.

One consideration imho we must continue to hand out to folks about the 9600 GT is how well it overclocks and how cool and quiet it is. It has moved to the top of my value list, just ahead of the 8800 GT and still well ahead of an 8800 GTS. Because the frame rate difference will be negligible 95% of the time but the noise, power consumption and heat will be present every clock cycle.

Every review is a bit different and most show the 9600 GT to be in line with the 8800 GT in many games, especially at 16x10 or below.

I'd personally spend the money for the 9600GT from MSI and overclock it to meet that 13% frame rate difference. If I didn't want to overclock I'd just buy the OC version for 30 bucks more but still under 200.

But I do think it is probably just a toss up at this point unless you factor in noise, power consumption and cooling.

 

[MarcVenice]

Your rig is 3 years old. I'd say it has been fine for those 3 years you've had it ? Only up till now, or probably 6 months ago, have dualcores become REALLY mainstream. Now, there's also the difference between clockspeeds. I used to say, you can overclock a q6600 to 3.0ghz, but you can't add 2 cores to a e8400, and make it a 3.0ghz qaudcore. Either way, I doubt you could really go wrong, but for some time to come, a 3.0ghz dualcore will be faster in games then a 2.4ghz qaudcore. And if you are a 'little' into overclocking, and clock your e8400 at 3.6-4.0ghz, it should last 3 years with ease, playing any game you throw at, just to be GPU limited most of the time.

 

[heyheybooboo]

Originally posted by: Waylay00
Well, here's the deal. Back when I built my S939 rig, dual core was just starting to catch on. However, everyone assured me that I wouldn't need dual-core and that the 3700+ Winchester would suit me fine...However, it turned out to be a decision I would later regret. It seems as if this situation is the same (some people telling me to go dual-core, some telling me to go quad-core...).

I give bad advice all the time

Instead of making The Big Decision Now, spend $200 on an 8800gt. It won't make the decision any easier but will most certainly make it more enjoyable as the time goes by because the new vid card will wallop your 7800gt OC.

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: MarcVenice
I agree, a 3.0ghz c2d is enough CPU power for some time to come, but that does mean he has to overclock a q6600 from 2.4ghz to 3.0ghz. If he doesn't, I think it's better to get the e8400, for his gaming needs of course. That's all I'm saying.

Heh.. mark had the OP not said this, im totally with you, get the faster processor. But this came out on his first post:

Originally posted by: Waylay00
I don't overclock much, but I do a little. For example, my Thermalright XP-90 (w/ 92mm Panaflo) on my 3700+ has been adequate for my needs.

Here are some things that I'd like to do better on this build than the last one:

Anyways, thanks for the help!
Wade

2.4 ->3.0 easy as cherry pie on a Q6600 with the right hardware. 3.2ghz is even ice cream with the right combo.

But then again to an average E8400, 3.8ghz is easy as ice cream with right combo. :T

This is kinda why im recomending a beefier board. OP stay away from DDR3 also, its not worth it. If you can get asus on discount, go for the maximus series. Nvidia chipsets might also be a path since your not a high end overclocker.

 

[Waylay00]

What about the Rampage Formula? Doesn't it accept DDR2, as well as DDR3?

Anyways, I've decided to go ahead and purchase the "none" core components for my next build, such as the case, PSU, HDD, ODD, etc...I will wait until the summer before I purchase the core components, like the CPU, GPU, RAM, mobo, etc...

Case: Lian Li PC-A17B Midtower Aluminum Chassis (any other recommendations here?)

PSU: Corsair HX620 620w Modular PSU (once again, any other recommendations here?)

HDD/s: Seagate Barracuda SATA 500GB 7200.11, Western Digital 74GB Raptor (boot drive; pulled from old rig)

ODD: Samsung SH-S203N SATA DVD/CD Burner

Does this list sound good so far? I want to wait until the P45, X48, Yorkfield, 9800GTX, etc. are released before purchasing the core components.

Thanks,
Wade