Help in setting up a Home Network/Media Solution

[homenetwork]

Hello everyone,

As the title says, I need your help in setting up a home network, so that we can share files as well as watch media on different tv's easily.

Current setup is a bit of a pain because for example if kids want to watch a movie on the Samsung Tv in the Lounge, I have to copy the file from the media pc onto a usb stick every time or if I've got a move on the Office PC in the upstairs bedroom and I want to watch it on the Media PC downstairs, then again I have to copy it on a usb stick or hdd and transfer it to the media pc.

Here is what I currently have:-

Some points to note:-

1. Downstairs Livingroom PC is used by kids during the day for school work and during evenings/weekends as a Media/HTPC which outputs 1080p HD movies straight to the Sony TV. It is of the following decent low-power spec:-

Intel Celeron G1620 2.70GHz Socket 1155 2MB Cache
Asus P8H77-I Mini-ITX motherboard
Crucial 4GB DDR3 1600 MT/s (PC3-12800) CL9 @1.35V
Coolermaster Elite 120 Advanced Mini ITX Case
HP Pavillion 2211x 1920x1080 Widescreen Monitor (Connected via DVI)
Samsung 840 256GB SSD (Has Windows Installed)
Samsung HD103SJ Spinpoint F3 1TB Hard Drive SATAII 7200rpm 32MB Cache (This is extra internal hdd for movies/backup etc and can be taken out if necessary)


2. The Samsung UE46ES6710 LED HD 1080p 3D Smart TV, 46 Inch is used by the kids to watch movies mainly during weekends and to play on the Wii Console. But if kids want to watch a movie, I have to transfer it onto a FAT32/NTFS formatted usb stick/hdd. This can get very annoying and cumbersome.


I want to have a central storage solution, which can store movies and can be watched. Please do note another point in that streaming might not be ideal as some movies start stuttering or can't be forwarded/rewinded.


Please let me know your opinions and advice.

Thank you.

 

[homenetwork]

Anyone??? BUMP!

 

[smitbret]

I apologize upfront. I can't see the image you posted because it is blocked here at work.

I'm not sure how in depth you want to go, but you have options, depending on budget and expectations.

Your biggest decision is this - You can spend the money on the server or spend the money on playback at the individual locations.

Based on your OP I would look at whether or not both of your TVs support DLNA. If so, and they probably do, then setting up Plex or Mezzmo from a 24/7 server will allow you to stream via network to all of those locations without any additional devices. DLNA will have its limits but Plex and Mezzmo both let you organize the library and make sure that the file formats are compatible with the TVs before streaming them. Not too mention that you can bring other devices like tablets or phones into the system and view your media on them as well. No additional devices necessary. You'll want a server with a pretty beefy CPU. Nothing less than an i3 or A8-6800k, but ideally an FX-6300/8320/8350/8370 or i5/i7. Still, you should have no problem getting something set up from scratch for less than $500 before the cost of HDDs. AMD will cost less upfront, but will cost you a few pennies per month on your electrical bill.

You could also use the existing HTPC as the 24/7 server but that CPU really will struggle with high bitrate movies if transcoding is required at any point. Serving up files isn't really taxing on a system so the kids could continue to use the PC while you use your media at another location without much issue. This is generally less than ideal, though and not a best practice.

If you wanted to put the money into the playback locations, you could continue to use the existing PC and then add something like Chromebox running XBMC at the other TV to just playback media from a network shared location. If you wanted to save a little money, you could get an Amazon FireTV and run XBMC at the other location, too. Roku also has a Plex plugin that works very nicely if you still want to setup a Plex server somewhere.

It's probably in the image that I can't see, but how does your network look?

***Update***
Just saw your image and it looks like everything is wired so bitrate between devices really shouldn't be an issue. Your network looks fine. You just need to decide if you want to set up a centralized server and if you want the server or playback devices to take care of heavy lifting.

 

[dawza]

Generally, the most typical setup for your outlined scenario is a single source to multiple sinks; in other words, a centralized repository that feeds any number of clients.

The first decision, then, is what hardware and software solution would be ideal for your source (centralized repository). On the hardware end, this could be as simple as a one-drive NAS to a full-blown multi-drive server. In-between would be repurposing an existing machine to serve up content, although this isn't generally best practice.

Software often, but does not have to, follow hardware selection. For example, if you purchase an off-the-shelf NAS, you'll probably want to use the manufacturer provided OS. If you repurpose an existing machine, you can probably leave the OS alone and make the necessary tweaks to folders/drives. If you DIY, you have a wider selection of OS options, from open-source NAS platforms (e.g. FreeNAS) to Windows (e.g. WHS 2011 if you can find a copy for sale, or even W8).

Every decision has its own set of tradeoffs, and for the most part, you'll have to balance ease of use vs. price vs. flexibility. Choose two.

On the sink/client side, most devices will be pretty straightforward. You'll need to connect clients to have appropriate permissions for accessing content from the central repository/server. How you go about this depends on the client and server OS.

For TVs, you may be able to utilize built-in capabilities, although most likely, you'll need a dedicated hardware solution for streaming-- and these range from full-blown PCs to USB dongles (e.g. ChromeCast) to retail media streaming devices (e.g. WD Live). You'll again have to balance simplicity vs. price vs. flexibility, although IMO, it's more often simplicity vs. flexibility; out-of-the-box solutions are generally plug-and-play, until you encounter a file format or structure that isn't supported (for example). Full-blown HTPCs can handle pretty much anything, but you'll need to configure and maintain something that has a "real" OS.

A concrete example using our setup, in case it's useful:

WHS 2011 box providing centralized access to content, including media. Also handles backups, although that's outside the scope of what you're looking for, it sounds.

Multiple PCs connected to WHS 2011 box with required server accounts/permissions as appropriate. This allows centralized video streaming, for example. Also allows different people to have their own write access to server folders for personal storage, in addition to shared space for all.

Android and IOS devices configured with read access to server folders with multimedia content. How this is done depends on the device, OS, and app, but generally involves mapping IP/network name and supplying user account credentials that have built-in access permissions (controlled at server level).

TVs have their own low-power HTPCs that perform streaming, using XBMC as the main interface, but also allowing for normal browsing/surfing as desired. These mini-PCs again have access and permissions only as necessary depending on expected use cases. No read or write access to individual private storage spaces, for example.

I manage everything, including the server, which means that adding a new movie to the "Movies" folder gives every client that has access to that folder the ability to stream the new content. In your case, I might have separate folders for adult vs. kid-appropriate content, with the required permission settings.

On a higher level, our network is segregated into multiple subnets, such that guests on our guest WiFi cannot access WHS resources unless they know both the internal SSID credentials and appropriate WHS credentials.

This is by no means the only way to do things, but you'll find most home network shares are configured by some version of the above.

Streaming performance tends to be constrained by the following, in rough order:

Hardware:

1. Network capacity (LAN side)-- almost always for wireless-only clients
2. Server I/O
3. Server CPU

Software:

1. Content bitrate
2. Codec
3. Player program

Our WHS 2011 runs on a 2nd-generation Atom, with 5900 RPM and 7200 RPM NAS drives. Never encountered a hitch with multiple streams, although we also don't transcode, and have a rather robust network backbone.

 

[homenetwork]

Thank you for your replies guys.

Both TV's are DLNA compliant, but I've tried Plex/Mezzmo before and although it works, there is too much stuttering and on many occasions the movie simply freezes.

Unfortunately buying another NAS or PC is out of the question as I'm currently looking for a 5.1 system for the Lounge, although I can spend on some storage solution if need be.


I like the idea of a central pc file server which can share across the network though. Could the media-pc act as a file server/media pc/desktop pc? This way I can connect a storage hdd to the Samsung TV and simply copy a file across.

Is the following possible?:- Copy files from PC to a USB drive that is attached to a Samsung TV?

Please bear in mind that the Sony TV doesn't need anything streaming as it's connected directly as a 2nd monitor to the Media PC in the Living room.

Currently I have Windows 8 Pro installed on the media-pc, so could I use that?


PS, I forgot to add that I also have the following items if they are any useful:-

• Chromecast
• TP-Link 8 Port Gigabit Switch

 

[smitbret]

Thank you for your replies guys.

Both TV's are DLNA compliant, but I've tried Plex/Mezzmo before and although it works, there is too much stuttering and on many occasions the movie simply freezes.

Unfortunately buying another NAS or PC is out of the question as I'm currently looking for a 5.1 system for the Lounge, although I can spend on some storage solution if need be.


I like the idea of a central pc file server which can share across the network though. Could the media-pc act as a file server/media pc/desktop pc? This way I can connect a storage hdd to the Samsung TV and simply copy a file across.

Is the following possible?:- Copy files from PC to a USB drive that is attached to a Samsung TV?

Please bear in mind that the Sony TV doesn't need anything streaming as it's connected directly as a 2nd monitor to the Media PC in the Living room.

Currently I have Windows 8 Pro installed on the media-pc, so could I use that?


PS, I forgot to add that I also have the following items if they are any useful:-

• Chromecast
• TP-Link 8 Port Gigabit Switch

If you dropped a better CPU into that PC you'd see the stuttering go away with Plex/Mezzmo. Sounds like the bottleneck is the CPU's ability to transcode your media in real-time. The $200 for an i5-3470 would be a great investment. Even an i3-3220 would be a huge improvement and you could definitely use the HTPC as your 24/7 server/NAS. You'd still need the Plex/Mezzmo setup with something like a Chromecast, Roku, etc. and that takes you back to the investment in a better CPU. It's either that or invest in playback devices at the other locations that won't require transcoding and then you are pushing $100+/per and closer to $200 for a good one.

Everything you keep mentioning points towards a DLNA/UPnP server that can aggregate media from different locations and then stream it around. You could certainly copy the media to a flash drive and move it to the different locations but it isn't really convenient and would probably limit your files to 4GB, assuming FAT32.

 

[homenetwork]

If you dropped a better CPU into that PC you'd see the stuttering go away with Plex/Mezzmo. Sounds like the bottleneck is the CPU's ability to transcode your media in real-time. The $200 for an i5-3470 would be a great investment and you could definitely use the HTPS as your 24/7 server/NAS. You'd still need the Plex/Mezzmo setup with something like a Chromecast, Roku, etc. and that takes you back to the investment in a better CPU. It's either that or invest in playback devices at the other locations that won't require transcoding and then you are pushing $100+/per and closer to $200 for a good one.

Everything you keep mentioning points towards a DLNA/UPnP server that can aggregate media from different locations and then stream it around. You could certainly copy the media to a flash drive and move it to the different locations but it isn't really convenient and would probably limit your files to 4GB, assuming FAT32.

Unfortunately mate, I don't have that sort of money to spend. I was hoping that with the current setup, the most I may have to spend was on a storage hdd, but a $200 cpu is out of the question

You said fat32, but my Samsung TV can read NTFS drives as well as access a networked hdd.

BTW could you please tell me if it's possible to access a hard drive connected to a Samsung TV from my pc to allow me to copy/delete files?

 

[smitbret]

Unfortunately mate, I don't have that sort of money to spend. I was hoping that with the current setup, the most I may have to spend was on a storage hdd, but a $200 cpu is out of the question

You said fat32, but my Samsung TV can read NTFS drives as well as access a networked hdd.

BTW could you please tell me if it's possible to access a hard drive connected to a Samsung TV from my pc to allow me to copy/delete files?

You could always pop a flash drive in the Samsung TV and see if it gets recognized on the network. If it does, then you could probably do what you're proposing. All of your media files with have to be compliant with what the Samsung supports but as long as you stick to .mp4 and maybe .mkv you should be alright.

Storage space will definitely be the priority because you can stream media you don't have stored but if you have the space on the LR PC already, then this is your answer:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819117447

 

[homenetwork]

Thank you very much smitbret! I have some good and bad news...

The Good News -

Although a usb flash drive plugged into the Samsung TV could not be detected on the PC, it was never needed as I managed to setup media player as the Server for distributing media to the Samsung TV. I tested 2 movies playing simultaneously on both TV's from the PC - Despicable Me(2.09gb) stream to the Samsung TV using Media Player, whilst District 9 (10gb) played on the Sony TV using VLC. They both played absolutely perfectly with no juddering and could be forwarded or rewinded without freezing. FYI, both of these movies were stored on the Samsung 1TB HDD in the same location, so it seems the pc can handle it.

The Bad News -

1. Media Centre is not detecting all movies in it's playlist, hence the Samsung TV can't see the rest, so should I use a different app?

2. I don't want to login to my Admin account each time to give access to video files for kids to stream on the Samsung TV - Is there a better and more secure method to do this? I.E I want to only share one video folder with the Samsung TV and everything else if possible to be blocked

3. How can use XBMC to stream media to one tv whilst playing media directly to another TV?

 

[smitbret]

Yeah, I looked up the codec/container support on your TV yesterday and it is pretty impressive. Incompatible file types should be pretty rare. It says it doesn't support bitrates higher than 30mbps but anything other than a straight Blu-Ray Rip should come in below that ceiling.

I've never used WMC to set up a library but the concept is the same as other Media Server software. You set up the folders you want to share and then set up libraries/playlists from there. There may be someone else here that could help you with WMC.

Using XBMC this way is a great idea and I can't believe I didn't think of it. That will help keep libraries uniform across devices. I just need to clarify, though, you have set up XBMC on the living room PC and use it to play back video on the Sony TV, right? Sounds like you have an admin account and a user account for the kids on this PC, too, correct?

You'll want to set everything up under the admin login and just make sure you enable the function where XBMC acts as a UPnP server. Just set up your libraries and media for XBMC and then XBMC will serve it up like WMC does. I'm not sure if you are selecting WMC as a UPnP source in XBMC or if you are just pulling up local or network shares but you should probably just pick one or the other. It would be a little convoluted to use WMC as a source for XBMC and then use XBMC as a UPnP server. Just set up the folders you want to share in XBMC and let it handle the rest. When you search and save the shared folders in XBMC it will ask for the user name & password and ask if you want to save it.

If you have more than one folder you want to share, but only want a specific folder going to a specific device, then that is a little problematic. Parental and source controls are a big reason why I use Mezzmo instead of the XBMC library features. On the server level I can turn on/off specific playlists for different locations as well as control things by ratings, genre, folder, etc. Unfortunately, I don't know of anyone to make XBMC do this or WMC for that matter.

 

[homenetwork]

Yeah, I looked up the codec/container support on your TV yesterday and it is pretty impressive. Incompatible file types should be pretty rare. It says it doesn't support bitrates higher than 30mbps but anything other than a straight Blu-Ray Rip should come in below that ceiling.

I've never used WMC to set up a library but the concept is the same as other Media Server software. You set up the folders you want to share and then set up libraries/playlists from there. There may be someone else here that could help you with WMC.

Using XBMC this way is a great idea and I can't believe I didn't think of it. That will help keep libraries uniform across devices. I just need to clarify, though, you have set up XBMC on the living room PC and use it to play back video on the Sony TV, right? Sounds like you have an admin account and a user account for the kids on this PC, too, correct?

You'll want to set everything up under the admin login and just make sure you enable the function where XBMC acts as a UPnP server. Just set up your libraries and media for XBMC and then XBMC will serve it up like WMC does. I'm not sure if you are selecting WMC as a UPnP source in XBMC or if you are just pulling up local or network shares but you should probably just pick one or the other. It would be a little convoluted to use WMC as a source for XBMC and then use XBMC as a UPnP server. Just set up the folders you want to share in XBMC and let it handle the rest. When you search and save the shared folders in XBMC it will ask for the user name & password and ask if you want to save it.

If you have more than one folder you want to share, but only want a specific folder going to a specific device, then that is a little problematic. Parental and source controls are a big reason why I use Mezzmo instead of the XBMC library features. On the server level I can turn on/off specific playlists for different locations as well as control things by ratings, genre, folder, etc. Unfortunately, I don't know of anyone to make XBMC do this or WMC for that matter.

I've never had a file that is a full bluray rip, so I should be okay. I tried xbmc upnp and although I could see the files on the samsung tv, they didn't work as samsung kept on saying incorrect file format.

So I tried Serviio and all the files work perfectly :biggrin:

My only grip with Serviio is that the files are a little slower to load or skip and I'm worried about it crashing on a regular basis.

I've never tried Mezzmo - is it easy to setup and use?


Anyway, my next tasks are:-

1. Maybe also try out mezzmo/plex/xbmc - Heard Plex kicks ass...

2. Setting up my favourite choice DLNA server software to run all the time on startup no matter which user is logged in, but must load silently in the kids account in windows.

3. Setup the PC, so that when it hasn't been used, it goes to sleep.

4. Give the video folder a share, so that when I access it from the office pc upstairs, I can transfer the files straight to the media-pc downstairs - BUT! It must NOT be accessible by others - I think this is the most important one I need help with.

 

[azazel1024]

Can you stream plex from an SMB share? If so just go that route and don't worry about any kind of transcoding. The machine you have is pretty close to the specs of my server (though mine has more storage, more networking ports and more memory) and it has no issue serving up half a dozen 1080p streams over my network with no issues.

I do ZERO transcoding with it though.

I also don't do any DLNA.

I stream using SMB where appropriate and where it isn't, I use iTunes (to an Apple TV or to my wife's iPad). Works great.

For your points, how much power does the thing use? I leave my server on 18.5/7. It is in S3 the other 5 hours with event triggers at 12:45 and 6:15am to put it to sleep and wake it up. My server uses 21w at idle, which is low enough for me to not really worry about the power consumption too much.

The issue you are going to have is that if the folder is accessible only by the upstairs machine, nobody and watch videos from that folder. You'll need to allow at least "read" permissions to anyone you want to be able to access the folder.

 

[homenetwork]

Thanks very much azazel1024 - can you please clarify what is an SMB and how do you recommend I set it up? Whats the advantage of SMB over DLNA?

I believe the pc takes approx 30-40watts at most.

I want to do a similar setup to yours.

Regarding the folder issue...I have a plan. I share a private folder only with the upstairs pc, allowing me to send the files whenever I can. Once these files have landed in the downstairs private folder, I can have a scheduled task that can move the files from that folder to the correct videos folder.

 

[smitbret]

I've never had a file that is a full bluray rip, so I should be okay. I tried xbmc upnp and although I could see the files on the samsung tv, they didn't work as samsung kept on saying incorrect file format.

So I tried Serviio and all the files work perfectly :biggrin:

My only grip with Serviio is that the files are a little slower to load or skip and I'm worried about it crashing on a regular basis.

I've never tried Mezzmo - is it easy to setup and use?


Anyway, my next tasks are:-

1. Maybe also try out mezzmo/plex/xbmc - Heard Plex kicks ass...

2. Setting up my favourite choice DLNA server software to run all the time on startup no matter which user is logged in, but must load silently in the kids account in windows.

3. Setup the PC, so that when it hasn't been used, it goes to sleep.

4. Give the video folder a share, so that when I access it from the office pc upstairs, I can transfer the files straight to the media-pc downstairs - BUT! It must NOT be accessible by others - I think this is the most important one I need help with.

1) There are several out there, each with their own pluses and minuses. Plex is the most popular. Serviio, Mezzmo, Universal Media Server, Twonky & Tversity are probably the next most popular. You may find that you like something else, too:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_UPnP_AV_media_servers

I like Mezzmo because it seems to support metadata better than anything else and because it allows me to control who views what with just a couple of clicks. It also transcodes better than anything out there. Once I decided to use Playlists with Mezzmo, instead of folders, everything kind of came together and I couldn't imagine my media library without it. Their mobile app for Android is one of the better apps I have seen, too. Their customer support is absolutely top notch and I can honestly say I have never dealt with a company that supports its product as closely as they do (Conceiva).

2) Most of the UPnP/DLNA servers do this.

3) Wake-On Lan just needs to be set

4) NVM - that won't work unless you are actively using XBMC as the front-end.........

SMB (aka Samba) is just Windows networking protocol. He's saying he just shares the folders across his network where possible and uses Plex where it won't work. A lot of people do it this way and that is essentially what you would be doing by using XBMC and turning the UPnP server on. I just doubt that your Samsung TV will read media from a shared folder.

 

[azazel1024]

Unless the streamer is sending an actual WOL magic packet, WOL won't help anything if the machine is asleep when someone wants to stream from it. Pattern match is a crappy way to do it because network activity will inevitably wake the machine every few minutes (I think the longest I've seen a machine sleep when WOL from pattern match set was around 20 minutes).