Help in Brewing espresso

[darthsidious]

I'm a pretty big fan of espresso, and I just got access to a machine to pull my own shots... but the shots I pulled were horrible - no crema, and very little flavour. Any resident ATOT coffee experts have any advice?

 

[mrzed]

CoffeeGeek.com

 

[Descartes]

This could be for a dozen or more reasons, and I really can't answer anything unless you tell me at least the following:

1) What type of a machine is this? If it's a "steam toy", you're lucky to get 1 bar of pressure through the group. With these machines you're not likely to get any crema at all.
2) Where did you get the beans? If they're not fresh, they're not likely to produce as much crema. If they're overroasted and stale, the oils you need are likely oxidized and thus not capable of producing much more than insipid black dreck.

Answer those two questions and we'll go from there. Lack of crema could be any of the following:

- Poor tamping/dosing/distribution. You need not tamp to get crema, but if you blasted 9 atmospheres of pressure through coffee, all you're likely to get is a little black water with some notion of coffee flavor. Proper tamping insures that you get full saturation of the coffee and a complete extraction of the coffee oils.

- Improper temperature of the machine, filter, cup, etc. Crema won't last long if it comes into contact with anything that's simply too cold. There are numerous ways to test this, but I again need to know what machine, etc.

- Bad beans as I said above.

Eh, that's all for now. You could also consult CoffeeGeek as they have a multitude of articles, threads, etc. about proper extraction. For now I'd just pay attention to the golden rule and start from there.

Obligatory crema shot from my machine.

 

[everman]

Your answer surely is on CoffeeGeek, but answer the above questions and I'm sure we can help.

It really comes down to the machine, grinder, beans, and the person using them, if one of those things are lacking then you might have a problem.

 

[darthsidious]

Thanks for all the replies. The machine I'm using is a cheapo Black and Deker, so that's probably a big part of the problem. I'm fairly certain the beans aren't bad: It's a single origin espresso from Ehiopia that I've had at this coffee shop before, and really liked (It's the Addis Ketema Cooperative, Yirgacheffe, Ethiopia from terroircoffee.com if people want to check it out).

So I guess my question is, given my crappy machine, what's the best I can do; Is there a way to adjust grinds and tamping to compensate somewhat?

Thanks...

Edit: As for roast freshness, it was roasted on November 3. And the exact machine is Black and Decker's EM5

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: darthsidious
Thanks for all the replies. The machine I'm using is a cheapo Black and Deker, so that's probably a big part of the problem. I'm fairly certain the beans aren't bad: It's a single origin espresso from Ehiopia that I've had at this coffee shop before, and really liked (It's the Addis Ketema Cooperative, Yirgacheffe, Ethiopia from terroircoffee.com if people want to check it out).

So I guess my question is, given my crappy machine, what's the best I can do; Is there a way to adjust grinds and tamping to compensate somewhat?

Thanks...

Edit: As for roast freshness, it was roasted on November 3. And the exact machine is Black and Decker's EM5

Terroir Coffee is fantastic, so you are correct in saying it's not the beans.

You didn't say anything about a grinder, so I'm assuming you either had it ground at the store or you're using a blade grinder. Correct? You're also correct in the suggestion that the machine is the problem. A "Cheapo Black and Decker" is almost certainly steam-based, so you're not likely to get anywhere near enough pressure to produce worthwhile crema. If the machine doesn't have a pump of some kind, it simply won't product the right pressure. What you're getting is similar to a Moka pot. It can make a nice cup of coffee, but not the type of espresso you're wanting.

Hope that helps.

 

[ttown]

sounds like the coffee isn't ground fine enough, or possibly the water isn't hot enough

super super fine, super super hot

no idea what the black-and-decker is capable of, though... so it might be "you get what you pay for"

edit: and as has been mentioned above, tamped down

 

[Platypus]

problem is your machine as descartes said.

<-- former starbucks employee ages ago.

 

[darthsidious]

Thanks for the help...

I used a blade grinder. So I guess my entire setup is shot...
So how much would it cost for a decent espresso setup? - it might just be out of my college budget, but maybe I can make it fit. And what specific componets would you recommend?

 

[Platypus]

You'd want a burr grinder so you don't torch the beans, those aren't too spendy.

On Espresso machines, I haven't looked in a while but they're not cheap.

Have you thought about french pressing your espresso? Won't be espresso but it will be much stronger than normal drip coffee as the oils won't absorb into a filter and you'll get a very full bodied flavor.

 

[h8red]

I really think the problem is the grinder. The "espresso machine" will probably make acceptable coffee once you get a good grinder and good fresh beans. The beans really should be no older than 2 weeks after roasting otherwise they aren't as fresh and will not produce crema.

I know this may sound ridiculous to a lot of people reading this but I think a good starting point would be to get a Rocky doserless $285. This grinder should last you a few years until you get obsessed and upgrade to the Mazzer Mini electric!!

I can't stress enough that the grinder is probably the most important part of making espresso. A close second is the fresh beans, and a distant third is the actual espresso machine

 

[everman]

Gaggia makes great budget espresso machines. The Gaggia Coffee and Gaggia espresso are basically the same thing I think, they go for $200 new.
The most important part of any espresso setup is the grinder. There are a few options depending on your budget. My favorite grinder for the value is the cunnil tranquilo, I think it still sells for around $200, it's an awesome deal for the money (basically a light commercial grinder, big motor and big burrs).

Try this: http://www.google.com/search?q=budget+g...e=utf-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a

 

[GZeus]

A less expensive option, though not a 'machine', are the stovetop offerings like the ones from Bialetti (bialetti.com).
They are bottom up style - water on bottom, coffee in the middle, output on top... like the old camp stove coffee makers. Not sure what they qualify as, Italian style? Purists will probably say that they don't make "espresso".
They are widely available (Target?), offer way more bang for the buck and, the Bialetti ones anyway, are very well made. Mine kept me alive through college.

Any purists wanna take a 'shot' and offer an opinion? No knocking it if you haven't tried it!!

 

[Platypus]

Don't forget also the way you're preparing them? How long of a pull did you do? How much did you tamp down the espresso in the wand?

 

[everman]

Originally posted by: Platypus
Don't forget also the way you're preparing them? How long of a pull did you do? How much did you tamp down the espresso in the wand?

25-30 seconds for 1.5-2oz of espresso.

Use a real tamper (not the plastic junk machines come with), it's estimated about 30lbs of force. Personally I never used a scale, I just stay consistent with the amount of force applied. The only adjustment you should make is that of the grind, everything else stays the same. Grind finer to increase shot time, coarser for a quicker shot. It's pretty simple, but it does take some practice.

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: h8red
I really think the problem is the grinder. The "espresso machine" will probably make acceptable coffee once you get a good grinder and good fresh beans. The beans really should be no older than 2 weeks after roasting otherwise they aren't as fresh and will not produce crema.

I know this may sound ridiculous to a lot of people reading this but I think a good starting point would be to get a Rocky doserless $285. This grinder should last you a few years until you get obsessed and upgrade to the Mazzer Mini electric!!

I can't stress enough that the grinder is probably the most important part of making espresso. A close second is the fresh beans, and a distant third is the actual espresso machine

I agree with everything else you said, and I know it's popular to say the machine isn't all that important; however, a steam toy will always be a steam toy, and no matter what quality the grind or beans you'll simply never get a true espresso that you get from a machine capable of ~9 bars.

 

[Platypus]

Originally posted by: everman

Originally posted by: Platypus
Don't forget also the way you're preparing them? How long of a pull did you do? How much did you tamp down the espresso in the wand?

25-30 seconds for 1.5-2oz of espresso.

Use a real tamper (not the plastic junk machines come with), it's estimated about 30lbs of force. Personally I never used a scale, I just stay consistent with the amount of force applied. The only adjustment you should make is that of the grind, everything else stays the same. Grind finer to increase shot time, coarser for a quicker shot. It's pretty simple, but it does take some practice.

Yep

 

[h8red]

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: h8red
I really think the problem is the grinder. The "espresso machine" will probably make acceptable coffee once you get a good grinder and good fresh beans. The beans really should be no older than 2 weeks after roasting otherwise they aren't as fresh and will not produce crema.

I know this may sound ridiculous to a lot of people reading this but I think a good starting point would be to get a Rocky doserless $285. This grinder should last you a few years until you get obsessed and upgrade to the Mazzer Mini electric!!

I can't stress enough that the grinder is probably the most important part of making espresso. A close second is the fresh beans, and a distant third is the actual espresso machine

I agree with everything else you said, and I know it's popular to say the machine isn't all that important; however, a steam toy will always be a steam toy, and no matter what quality the grind or beans you'll simply never get a true espresso that you get from a machine capable of ~9 bars.

I totally agree. I just wanted to make a point that the grinder is the most important tool in making the espresso. I also agree that if you wanted to spend most of your money, spend it on a decent grinder and then you can spend whatever you have left over, on a machine or stovetop brewpot.