Help! I can't decide: i7 or Phenom II?

[Sonokamome]

Okay so what I want to build is a quad core computer that I can use for the next 7 to 8 (10 ideally) years since I really don't want to bother with constantly upgrading (as far as upgrading as concerned it would only involve memory and the gpu but other than that nothing else).

The reason for this silly proposition is that, so far, I've faired well during the last 6 years with my current computer with the following specs

http://www.necrosisinc.comyr.com/wordpress/?p=36

but the computer is starting to show it's age.

What do I plan to do with my next computer for all that time?

1. Gaming

1. Photo editing (GIMP)

1. SVG graphics (Inkscape)

1. movie editing (Cinelerra)

1. web development

1. watch HD content (blu-ray)

As you can tell, I am going to be using Windows and Linux in this build, so 64-bit support is a must.

Now here's my problem: choice.

Now I've heard that AMD is, said almost traditionally, better for gaming. And that it's good for single GPU solutions (which is what I plan to do although at some point I would like to mess around with Sli solutions)

On the other hand, Core i7 has been given noteriety for it's overall good performance and low power consumption (although I'm confused since the 920 uses 130watts and the upcoming phenom ii x4 945 uses 95watts). While Phenom II's are said to be quite competative to C2Q offerings

I'm a tight budget and am willing to buy things part-by-part as time goes on as I'm in no real rush to build the thing (so, in a way, money is not a concern).

So...should I go? should I wait? what do you think? Thanks in advance

Update: I should clarify that one: budget-wise, let's assume I've got ~$2,000 to spend and two: that the upgrading down the road will be not just the memory and GPU but also adding in storage devices of Sata connection (hdd or ssd it does not matter).

 

[nismotigerwvu]

If you have a set budget, you'll be better off going with the PII and using the difference from what you would have paid for the i7 towards a beefier GPU.

 

[exar333]

Go i7 if you are building a whole-new system. The editing and graphics needs alone would greatly benefit from it's performance. The overall system cost will be a little higher, but you will flexibility to go SLI or Xfire down the road, provided you grab a X58 board that supports both.

 

[Flipped Gazelle]

No computer lasts for 7-8 years, if you want to keep up with current software/3D gaming titles. So in that regard, your expectation is dramatically unrealistic.

Looking at your current computer specs, there are plenty of games that have been on the market for the past couple of years that would not run on it, at all. Since you are so loathe to perform running upgrades, perhaps you should look into getting a gaming console.

It has been, literally, years since AMD was better than Intel for gaming. As soon as Intel launched the Core2 chips 3 years ago, AMD lost.

AMD Phenom II's are very comparable to Intel's Core 2 Quads at similar price points. However, Core i7 more powerful than either PhII or C2Q, and is newer, whereas the Core2's S775 is nearing EOL, and AMD's socket AM3 will never be host to a CPU more powerful than Core i7. SO, IMO, if you can afford Core i7, that's the way to go.

 

[Sonokamome]

Originally posted by: Flipped Gazelle
No computer lasts for 7-8 years, if you want to keep up with current software/3D gaming titles. So in that regard, your expectation is dramatically unrealistic.

I give you on the 3d gaming titles (if I should want to stay on top of recent games). but for the "current software" what did you have exactly in mind? because the desktop applications are not as demanding so I've been able to use the most recent software without really worrying about that and it's been fine for me. Now if I was using some high-powere desktop app that needs for , an almost, complete overhaul then yeah I give you that as well.

Looking at your current computer specs, there are plenty of games that have been on the market for the past couple of years that would not run on it, at all. Since you are so loathe to perform running upgrades, perhaps you should look into getting a gaming console.

That depends really. What games did you had in mind when you said this? I for one was using my current system to play Max Payne 1 & 2, HL (and expansions, Q3, HL2, L4d (surprising really although I admit not as good). I would have upgraded to a better Nvidia card if it were not for the AGP interface so...*shrugs*. Oh yeah, I don't "loathe" to do upgrades, I'm just not interested in doing it so frequently.

In other words it's kind of like this: I use the current hardware to play current games, and then eventually upgrade if and when something interesting comes along in gaming, but in the meantime, I stick with what I have. That's the scheme I go with in general.

I understand that at a certain point a computer is not going to be up to muster with the overall software available in general, but so far, from my personal use and tendencies, I say 7 to 8 years. So it's a subjective topic from user to user.
But thank you for your suggestions I will keep them in mind.

 

[Rick James]

2000 to spend? Psh.. I7 is the way to go.

I put this list together the other day.

I7 920 - 288.00
MSI X58 Pro - 189.00 + 20 dollar mail in rebate
Gskill 6GB DDR3 1600 - 109.99
Sapphire 4850X2 - 259.99
Antec Nine Hundred - 109.99
Raidmax 850W PSU - 109.99
1TB 7200rpm 32mb cache HD - 99.99
TRUE - 69.99
20X Burner - 39.99

= 1272.99

Enjoy. Overclock it to 4Ghz out of the box and you'll be set.

 

[Flipped Gazelle]

Originally posted by: Sonokamome

Originally posted by: Flipped Gazelle
No computer lasts for 7-8 years, if you want to keep up with current software/3D gaming titles. So in that regard, your expectation is dramatically unrealistic.

I give you on the 3d gaming titles (if I should want to stay on top of recent games). but for the "current software" what did you have exactly in mind? because the desktop applications are not as demanding so I've been able to use the most recent software without really worrying about that and it's been fine for me. Now if I was using some high-powere desktop app that needs for , an almost, complete overhaul then yeah I give you that as well.

Looking at your current computer specs, there are plenty of games that have been on the market for the past couple of years that would not run on it, at all. Since you are so loathe to perform running upgrades, perhaps you should look into getting a gaming console.

That depends really. What games did you had in mind when you said this? I for one was using my current system to play Max Payne 1 & 2, HL (and expansions, Q3, HL2, L4d (surprising really although I admit not as good). I would have upgraded to a better Nvidia card if it were not for the AGP interface so...*shrugs*. Oh yeah, I don't "loathe" to do upgrades, I'm just not interested in doing it so frequently.

In other words it's kind of like this: I build to play current, and then eventually upgrade if and when something interesting comes along in gaming, but in the meantime, I stick with what I have. That's the scheme I go with in general.

I understand that at a certain point a computer is not going to be up to muster with the overall software available in general, but so far, from my personal use and tendencies, I say 7 to 8 years. So it's a subjective topic from user to user.
But thank you for your suggestions I will keep them in mind.

I'm not much of a gamer; I tend to look at the "recommended system requirements" on games for an idea of what runs reasonably well. Some examples:

FEAR 2 - dual core
Crysis - dual core
Bioshock - dual core
Far Cry 2 - dual core

Etc, etc... and a couple of the games I listed were released a year ago. And that's not including games that suggest a single-core CPU that is more powerful than your current. But maybe you play at lower resolution, or simply do not have the performance expectations that I do - and mine tend to be lower than hardcore gamers.

As far as applications go, Photoshop CS4 has a minimum requirement of a 1.8 Ghz CPU, recommends a dual-core and also a 512mb GPU, for OpenGL-accelerated effects. Even Cinelerra suggests using a dual-core system.

From what you've listed, I imagine a real production-oriented computing lifestyle. But maybe I'm totally wrong about that. Maybe your projects are smaller than I envision, maybe you are just patient.

I would say that most users on this forum would consider a CPU/GPU upgrade cycle of 1-2 years as "infrequent". So, your 7-10 yr window looks vast, by comparison.

 

[Flipped Gazelle]

Originally posted by: Rick James
2000 to spend? Psh.. I7 is the way to go.

I put this list together the other day.

I7 920 - 288.00
MSI X58 Pro - 189.00 + 20 dollar mail in rebate
Gskill 6GB DDR3 1600 - 109.99
Sapphire 4850X2 - 259.99
Antec Nine Hundred - 109.99
Raidmax 850W PSU - 109.99
1TB 7200rpm 32mb cache HD - 99.99
TRUE - 69.99
20X Burner - 39.99

= 1272.99

Enjoy. Overclock it to 4Ghz out of the box and you'll be set.

Sonokamome, see what a nice system that is for $1300? Personally, I'd substitute a Corsair or BFG or other quality PSU brand for the Raidmax PSU, as Raidmax has a horrible reputation, and you don't need to buy a $70 TRUE to hit 4 Ghz, but you could have enough $$ for a really nice monitor - or monitors - and have a top-shelf system, too.

 

[Sonokamome]

Further clarification, and I apologize this in the post above: I've got already a monitor (22" wide 1680x1050, 2.0 speakers- I live in a small space so it does not matter, and a case (cosmos 1000), and a power supply (a Zalman 1K watt since I plan to do Sli in the future)).

I hope this does not make anybody start collapsing from their chairs lol.

Flipped Gazelle: We share common ground then and I thank you for your understanding; You are also correct: my projects are will be small in size and the system will be for the most part a "production-oriented" computer of sorts, my expectations are not so grand for gaming performance, and, before I had purchased my current monitor, I've played in lower resolutions.

and patient? Not to sound morally conceited or anything, yeah I guess I am, thanks

 

[Kraeoss]

i7 is it

 

[Rick James]

Originally posted by: Flipped Gazelle

Originally posted by: Rick James
2000 to spend? Psh.. I7 is the way to go.

I put this list together the other day.

I7 920 - 288.00
MSI X58 Pro - 189.00 + 20 dollar mail in rebate
Gskill 6GB DDR3 1600 - 109.99
Sapphire 4850X2 - 259.99
Antec Nine Hundred - 109.99
Raidmax 850W PSU - 109.99
1TB 7200rpm 32mb cache HD - 99.99
TRUE - 69.99
20X Burner - 39.99

= 1272.99

Enjoy. Overclock it to 4Ghz out of the box and you'll be set.

Sonokamome, see what a nice system that is for $1300? Personally, I'd substitute a Corsair or BFG or other quality PSU brand for the Raidmax PSU, as Raidmax has a horrible reputation, and you don't need to buy a $70 TRUE to hit 4 Ghz, but you could have enough $$ for a really nice monitor - or monitors - and have a top-shelf system, too.

TRUE was just added because its the best if not second best in cooling the I7.

Raidmax bad? That sucks. I have a Raidmax 850W haha

 

[OCGuy]

i7 without a doubt.

 

[Burticus]

I'm pretty much an AMD fanboy, but I tend to nickle and dime my stuff together. And when you're counting nickles and dimes, AMD is the way to go.

With that budget, and with the realization that you expect to get 7-10 years out of it, go with the i7.

But you know in 7-10 years the nominal desktop system will be using 16 cores, running Vista v3 sp9 128 bit, with 64gb of DDR7, right? And the minimum quad-SLI video card requirements for Crysis 5 will be a pain.

 

[Sonokamome]

LOL

 

[Sonokamome]

bought it. thank you all for your help

 

[faxon]

Originally posted by: Burticus
I'm pretty much an AMD fanboy, but I tend to nickle and dime my stuff together. And when you're counting nickles and dimes, AMD is the way to go.

With that budget, and with the realization that you expect to get 7-10 years out of it, go with the i7.

But you know in 7-10 years the nominal desktop system will be using 16 cores, running Vista v3 sp9 128 bit, with 64gb of DDR7, right? And the minimum quad-SLI video card requirements for Crysis 5 will be a pain.

im putting this in my sig lmao

 

[imported_Redmist]

Originally posted by: Sonokamome
bought it. thank you all for your help

please share what you bought and have a follow up of how everything is working for you. thanks

 

[Sonokamome]

I will. Although don't expect updates any time in the very near future. I'm doing this rather s-l-o-w-l-y.

 

[BubbaBooBoo]

Im always suprised when anyone asks about i7 and Phenom II as if the 920 of one was like the 920 of the other. Its like if Hyundai and Ferrari both made an Enzo!

 

[Sonokamome]

I never made the assumption was the same as the other. I had read enough that one was better than the other; my question simply incorporated a bit of wishful thinking when making the statement

Now I've heard that AMD is, said almost traditionally, better for gaming. And that it's good for single GPU solutions (which is what I plan to do although at some point I would like to mess around with Sli solutions)

so although it did come off as something from a person that thinks that two are the same with such a question, it's not and I apologize for the confusion.

 

[BubbaBooBoo]

No need to apologize. It was more making fun of AMD for giving a far inferier chip the exact same number as a far superior one to try and confuse people!

 

[Denithor]

Originally posted by: Sonokamome
I never made the assumption was the same as the other. I had read enough that one was better than the other; my question simply incorporated a bit of wishful thinking when making the statement

Now I've heard that AMD is, said almost traditionally, better for gaming. And that it's good for single GPU solutions (which is what I plan to do although at some point I would like to mess around with Sli solutions)

so although it did come off as something from a person that thinks that two are the same with such a question, it's not and I apologize for the confusion.

Not anytime in the last three years, since the C2D launch AMD has been playing second fiddle to Intel across the board. They've had to continuously adjust their prices down to keep on an even footing from a Price/Performance viewpoint.

Now, you're considering a system that will, in theory, last 7-8 years before being replaced (we're not talking upgrades here - complete and total replacement as today's tech will be so badly obsolete it won't be funny). For that to work, you want to go with what's best today - i7 - not worry about saving $100 or so and getting second-rate gear.

Secondly, you're going to want excellent cooling for your system. The TRUE is a great idea, actually, even if you don't plan to OC your CPU. It will keep your chip running cool and should prolong the lifespan considerably. Think of it as a cheap insurance policy.

Go for a Western Digital Caviar Black drive with the nice 5 year warranty.
Make sure you grab DDR3 rated for use at 1.5V. Mushkin, G.Skill are probably best.

Your video card is going to be the weakest link if you're into gaming at all. Within 2-3 years even a GTX 295 would be falling behind. Badly. Your best bet in this department is to get a mid level card today and expect to upgrade that one part every 2 years or so. 4830 for $65AR is a very low-cost part, reasonable performance, if you're a mild gamer it might last you two or three years.

 

[taltamir]

phenom 2 compares and competes with the core2 quad. And does so fairly well. Right now in the egg the p2 is only 5$ more than equivalent c2...

But the i7 is a whole different beast.

Now, you're considering a system that will, in theory, last 7-8 years before being replaced (we're not talking upgrades here - complete and total replacement as today's tech will be so badly obsolete it won't be funny). For that to work, you want to go with what's best today - i7 - not worry about saving $100 or so and getting second-rate gear.

No such thing as a system that will last 7-8 years... spending 3 times the price on an i7 system gives you 30% or so speed increase. It will last 6 months more... 12 months more at most. Just upgrade often. Computers should be upgraded every 18 months for a full system, or every 6 months if you do a per component upgrade (staggered, every 6 month upgrade the most "upgrade worthy" component)

just buy cheaper stuff... only reason to keep a system longer is if it was already the cheapest... aka, if you got a whole computer for 400$ because that is all you can afford, and then you keep it for 5 years...

 

[Sonokamome]

I got the CPU. I don't have any pics.

Denithor: Uh yeah I've considered it to use a Zalman but first I will get the other things (ram, optical drive, gpu, mobo) and then get on with the rest (thermal compund and CPU heatsink later on. GPU? uh....I'm thinking either a 9800gt or a gtx 260. Either would be fine but the GTX 260 since it looks quite promising. I won't bother with SLi but might use the other slots for whatever tickles my fancy.

Taltamir: I had considered that idea many times and I don't believe my expectations are quite unrealistic because I've considered exactly how I will use my computer in the present and how I expect to use my computer in the future (by then I think zilch gaming- more of a regular ole' basic usage machine). As I've said before, it's really about what you expect to do with computer and know it well. i know what I want to do with it, how long it will last at allowing me to do whwat I want to do, and of course the the awareness that there is always something new introduced in the market (so why fight a upstream current?).

Taltamir, I get you what your saying and you are in the absolute right in pragmatism, but, it's becuase I simply want to, that drives me to build something like this. That's it. But I will keep your advice at mind next time I build something.

I will keep this thread updated once I've got this built.

 

[BubbaBooBoo]

I think its going to be a loooooooooooooooong time until something comes out that trumps the i7s. With the economy the way it is, I cant see the manufacterers rushing out with the next tick or tock acording to the roadmaps. Theyre gonna sit on stuff for a while until they see if this recesion turns into a depresion!