Help:Home Video System

[johnmaster]

i'm getting new system for home video making/editing. (dozens of VHS tapes to be converted)

the followings were recommended by the sales person:-

AMD Athlon XP 1600
MSIK7266Pro266
Matrox G450 32MB DDR
256 MB DDR
IBM Deskstar 60GXP 40 GB
Studio DC10+

Since i'm very newbie to these I'll really appreciate any help and recommendation from you
guys.

Is the system above is o.k.? and other recommendation?

please advice me...

thanks

 

[Daovonnaex]

<< i'm getting new system for home video making/editing. (dozens of VHS tapes to be converted)

the followings were recommended by the sales person:-

AMD Athlon XP 1600
MSIK7266Pro266
Matrox G450 32MB DDR
256 MB DDR
IBM Deskstar 60GXP 40 GB
Studio DC10+

Since i'm very newbie to these I'll really appreciate any help and recommendation from you
guys.

Is the system above is o.k.? and other recommendation?

please advice me...

thanks

>>

What's your budget?
For one, with video editing you'll want more RAM and more storage. You'll also want faster storage (e.g. RAID or SCSI). Another note, an all-in-wonder Radeon 8500DV would be better than the Matrox. You'll probably be watching these on the computer, so a hardware MPEG decoder would be nice, as would a DVD drive (preferrably a DVD+RW). The planar (motherboard) is fine, but you could do better. Finally, you'll want a sound card...

 

[wepopfresh]

Much more hard drive space with fast access.

Either scsi or an ide raid would be a good way to go if you are going to use a pc to edit video as stated. If you plan on doing in compositing work, more memory would be nice. Programs like after effects tend to go heavy on memory on the pc, using up to 51% of system memory.

Or, you could always get a Mac.

 

[johnmaster]

---------------------------------
What's your budget?
For one, with video editing you'll want more RAM and more storage. You'll also want faster storage (e.g. RAID or SCSI). Another note, an all-in-wonder Radeon 8500DV would be better than the Matrox. You'll probably be watching these on the computer, so a hardware MPEG decoder would be nice, as would a DVD drive (preferrably a DVD+RW). The planar (motherboard) is fine, but you could do better. Finally, you'll want a sound card...
----------------------------------



the full list did include the Pioneer dvd, Plextor CDRW drive and the Sound Blaster Live soundcard. Maybe I'm wrong in thinking that it is least concern.

on the budget, i really don't have any specific limit. i know this might sound crazy but what i want is, really a decent video editing system (of course with decent price) which can do the job.

your recommendation on the RAM,storage and the RAID/SCSI are noted. but i'm little bit unsure with the video part. i did thought of AIW but changed mind after was told there are some driver problem. is that if i use AIW i can do away with the Matrox?. and any suggestion on the operating system that AIW will go with?(trouble free)

sorry for the silly questions, but as i told you, i don't know how to start with. i really need some advice. the more i read the reviews and the forums the more i got confused....

thanks.

 

[Daovonnaex]

<<
---------------------------------
What's your budget?
For one, with video editing you'll want more RAM and more storage. You'll also want faster storage (e.g. RAID or SCSI). Another note, an all-in-wonder Radeon 8500DV would be better than the Matrox. You'll probably be watching these on the computer, so a hardware MPEG decoder would be nice, as would a DVD drive (preferrably a DVD+RW). The planar (motherboard) is fine, but you could do better. Finally, you'll want a sound card...
----------------------------------



the full list did include the Pioneer dvd, Plextor CDRW drive and the Sound Blaster Live soundcard. Maybe I'm wrong in thinking that it is least concern.

on the budget, i really don't have any specific limit. i know this might sound crazy but what i want is, really a decent video editing system (of course with decent price) which can do the job.

your recommendation on the RAM,storage and the RAID/SCSI are noted. but i'm little bit unsure with the video part. i did thought of AIW but changed mind after was told there are some driver problem. is that if i use AIW i can do away with the Matrox?. and any suggestion on the operating system that AIW will go with?(trouble free)

sorry for the silly questions, but as i told you, i don't know how to start with. i really need some advice. the more i read the reviews and the forums the more i got confused....

thanks. >>

Plextor CDRW?! The sales fool. The Yamaha CRW3200 is the best by far of all CDRW drives. Also, the Sound Blaster Live is obsolete. I recommend the Philips Acoustic Edge, as it has the most professional features of the consumer sound cards, though if you're not ever going to play games, then you could try a "prosumer" card (e.g., Yamaha XG1000). As for the video part, there is no driver problem, it's merely that people bitch that ATi's drivers suck, mainly because nVidia writes fantastic drivers (nVidia's cards would not help you for what you want). Anyhow, I can quickly write up specs for a non-overclocked ultimate system, and if you don't like that ($$$pricey$$$), I'll write up specs for a more moderate system.
Ultimate
Case: Antec SX1040
Mainboard: Asus A7M266-D
CPUs: Two Athlon MP 1900s
HSFs: Vantec 6030D (no reason to spend more given its excellent performance)
RAID/SCSI adapter: Adaptec 3210s
HDDs: Three 73gb Seagate Cheetah 73LPs (not X15, because the 73LP has a higher bandwidth) in RAID level 0
HDD cooler: CoolerMaster 4002 CoolDrive Hard Disk Cooler in lowest 5.25" bay
Optical Storage: Yamaha CRW3200 and Pioneer DVD+RW
Removable Storage: Iomega Peerless
Floppy: Imation LS-120 Superdisk and Iomega Zip 250 (SCSI)
Graphics: ATi All-in-Wonder Radeon 8500DV
MPEG Decoder card: Sigma Designs Hollywood Plus MPEG Decoder
IEEE 1394: Lucent 1394 3 port firewire card (note: each IEEE 1394 bus can support 67 devices, so you may want to look into powered hubs
Sound: Philips Acoustic Edge or Yamaha XG1000
Monitor: LaCie Electron 22 Blue III
Keyboard: Figure that one out yourself, but make it PS/2
Mouse: Kensington Optical Elite PS/2

I deliberately left speaker selection out, though know that the Klipsh ProMedia 5.1 is the best for a PC.

 

[LethalWolfe]

No offense Daovonnaex, but what the hell are you recommending half that stuff for? A peerless drive? A ZIP drive? Superdisk? an MPEG decorder card? And if he wanted a vid card that could capture too I'd go w/the AIW, but he's seting up a system for this so I can't agree w/the AIW.

Getting a seperate vid display card and vid capture card is the way to go 'cause if johmaster says "hey, this is really fun" and wants to upgrade his stuff the Matrox display card can stay, and he'll just replace the vid cap card. But if he gets the AIW he's gonna have to ditch the AIW and buy a new display card, and vid cap card (i've yet to meet a "prosumer" vid cap card that functioned w/an AIW card).
I think the DC 10 card will be fine. Like I said, if johnmaster decides he really enjoys this then he can decide to drop more money into it. And the dual proc is nice, but if the software he uses doesn't utilize the 2nd proc what's the point?

I agree that if you need the SCSI setup if you go w/the DC-10 card, but have you thought about editing in DV? You can get a firewire card(less than $100) and a DV/analog converter box for ~$400 (The converter box allows you to hook up an analog device to a firewire card). If you edited in DV you could uses standard IDE HDDs. Intitial cost would be much lower than SCSI, plus expanding HDD space would be cheaper too. You could also get a card like the Matrox RT2500 that is a single card that captures both analog and DV (but that might be over kill for what you want right now).

Also, if you are thinking about getting a new digital camcorder in the future I serious consider getting the firewire card and converter box 'cause SCSI for editing DV is overkill.

Lethal

 

[Daovonnaex]

<< No offense Daovonnaex, but what the hell are you recommending half that stuff for? A peerless drive? A ZIP drive? Superdisk? an MPEG decorder card? And if he wanted a vid card that could capture too I'd go w/the AIW, but he's seting up a system for this so I can't agree w/the AIW. >>

I recommended the high-end storage systems because editors of video often end up using vast amounts of storage space, and I recommended the MPEG decoder card to ease viewing of his video on the PC. As for Zip, I always recommend that because of the fact that it can be used as a bootable windows disk. I suppose the Superdisk is entirely unnecessary, though.

 

[wepopfresh]

External firewire is a great solution, especially if you use Mac and PC like me. I use 4x40 external 40gig in removable firewire enclosures daisychained. It may not give the the speed of raid, but it takes up no internal space.

I would rather go with a matrox rt series card then some hollywood decoder. If your gonna do video, why not be able to handle real time transitions, especially multiple layers.
The zip disk, superdisk, and some of the other stuff is just filling up the case with gadgets that serve no real function.

Sometimes the simplest solution is the best.

 

[Daovonnaex]

<< External firewire is a great solution, especially if you use Mac and PC like me. I use 4x40 external 40gig in removable firewire enclosures daisychained. It may not give the the speed of raid, but it takes up no internal space.

I would rather go with a matrox rt series card then some hollywood decoder. If your gonna do video, why not be able to handle real time transitions, especially multiple layers.
The zip disk, superdisk, and some of the other stuff is just filling up the case with gadgets that serve no real function.

Sometimes the simplest solution is the best. >>

I was unaware of the RT series, now that I am, it seems an outstanding choice. I'd say that there's no point in external firewire drives, especially given that you can have external SCSI-3.

 

[LethalWolfe]

The thing is, if yer only editing w/DV you don't need SCSI. Any 7200RPM IDE drive made in the past 2yrs will easy handle DV. Even a 5400RPM laptop can handle DV w/o a hitch as long as most of what you are doing only has 1 video stream and 2-4 audio trax. I would suggest a but load of storage (if you go DV then at least 2x60gig HDDS), and keep all the audio and video files on a seperate HDD than the system files.


Lethal

 

[johnmaster]

thanks guys, you all doing a great job here. i'm catching up......

and Daovonnaex, could you please write for me the moderate system. look like the ultimate system a little bit pricey and pro for me... (and if you don't like that ($$$pricey$$$), I'll write up specs for a more moderate system.)

 

[Daovonnaex]

<< thanks guys, you all doing a great job here. i'm catching up......

and Daovonnaex, could you please write for me the moderate system. look like the ultimate system a little bit pricey and pro for me... (and if you don't like that ($$$pricey$$$), I'll write up specs for a more moderate system.)

>>

Coming right up!
Case: Antec SX840
Mainboard: ABIT KR7-A RAID
CPU: AMD Athlon XP 1800+
Memory: 3x Crucial PC2100 256mb DIMMs
HSF: Vantec 6030D
Graphics: Matrox RT2500 or ATi A-i-W 8500DV
Sound: Philips Acoustic Edge
HDD: 2x IBM Deskstar 60XP 40gb or 60gb (each)
Optical:
--Yamaha CRW3200 CDRW
--Philips DVD+RW
Floppy: Teac
Monitor: LG Flatron 915FT Plus

 

[johnmaster]

Case: Antec SX840
Mainboard: ABIT KR7-A RAID
CPU: AMD Athlon XP 1800+
Memory: 3x Crucial PC2100 256mb DIMMs
HSF: Vantec 6030D
Graphics: Matrox RT2500 or ATi A-i-W 8500DV
Sound: Philips Acoustic Edge
HDD: 2x IBM Deskstar 60XP 40gb or 60gb (each)
Optical:
--Yamaha CRW3200 CDRW
--Philips DVD+RW
Floppy: Teac
Monitor: LG Flatron 915FT Plus


great! look like it fits my budget and simple as well (without too many hardwares)... ....i'll be getting it in 2 weeks time...in a mean time if you guys have any other recommendation (alternative) please advice me....but lets make it simple, without changing the whole list....

 

[Daovonnaex]

<<
Case: Antec SX840
Mainboard: ABIT KR7-A RAID
CPU: AMD Athlon XP 1800+
Memory: 3x Crucial PC2100 256mb DIMMs
HSF: Vantec 6030D
Graphics: Matrox RT2500 or ATi A-i-W 8500DV
Sound: Philips Acoustic Edge
HDD: 2x IBM Deskstar 60XP 40gb or 60gb (each)
Optical:
--Yamaha CRW3200 CDRW
--Philips DVD+RW
Floppy: Teac
Monitor: LG Flatron 915FT Plus


great! look like it fits my budget and simple as well (without too many hardwares)... ....i'll be getting it in 2 weeks time...in a mean time if you guys have any other recommendation (alternative) please advice me....but lets make it simple, without changing the whole list....

>>

Are you planning on transferring any media to DVDs?

 

[LethalWolfe]

The only thing I would add to Daovonnaex's "moderate" PC is a 30 or 40gig system drive on top of the 2 40-60gig A/V drives. I'd suggest the 60gig A/V drives 'cause once drives start to get over ~75% full you start to lose performance and you're more likely to get dropped frames and such.


Lethal

 

[hoihtah]

building a fast, stable, reliable video editing machine is a difficult task.
if you are just starting out... i'd say go small.
one of the major decision that you'll have to make is how professional you want to go.

if all you are interested in doing is taking some video clips from vhs and coverting into mpeg file... then you really don't need that much more than a computer with firewire port and a dv-cam that can convert analog signals to dv.

that would be the cheapest way.

if you would like an analog capture card (sometimes built in... such as AIW cards)... you can go that route as well. but again it really depends on how professional you want to go.

if you are half serious about video editing... i'd recommend dropping analog signals all together. but that's just my opinion.

when capturing signals... you'll need a harddrive that is fast enough not to drop any frames.
in most cases, a regular ide 7200rpm drives will do the job. if you start dropping frames... then you should check to make sure that your config is tweaked and tuned.

if you're not satisfied by ide drives, then you could possibly raid 2 or more drives in stripe and get the speed that you want.

i don't want to get into a whole discussion on ide vs. scsi. so i'll summarize it like this.
if you can afford scsi, go ahead. if not raid ide... for video capturing that'll more than suffice.

then there's the whole "real-time Non-linear Editing" card debate.
i think the cheapest one you should get is around $500.00 well for the time being.. i won't go in to it. mostly 'cause i think this is over your project.

so go grab yourself a sonic foundry's vegas video 3 and try that out.
i haven't had a chance to use it... but i hear much good things about it.

but definately do some research before you make your purchases

 

[hoihtah]

oh... i just wanted to point out one more thing.

keep in mind that it's the software that drives the hardware.
so know your software.

you may have $2000.00 NLE card. but if your software is buggy... then you haven't got yourself much machine at all.

the whole driver issue of video card... as you already know... can be frustrating to fix.
sometimes there is no fix. you just have to wait until the manufacturer figures something out.

and then there's the raid card. while this isn't as picky... i've had difficult time before raiding hd's... and tweaking them.

last but not least, there's the NLE card. in most cases, these cards are extremely picky. i simply wouldn't buy a card that's not supporting my mobo. check and make sure that it is supported.

which are all the reasons why many people get a mac... even though it costs much more.

it is possible to build a stable pc dv editing machine.
but again... it's a difficult task.

and o/cing is highly not recommended.

 

[johnmaster]

Are you planning on transferring any media to DVDs?

for a start i'm only planning to make video cd's (VCDs)...somehow the Philips DVD+RW is too soon for me to work with (and pricey too)....

since i'm going to start with analogue video editing, most probably the AIW is enough for me at the moment....

this is how my system going to be:

Mainboard: ABIT KR7-A RAID
CPU: AMD Athlon XP 1800+
Memory: 3x Crucial PC2100 256mb DIMMs
HSF: Vantec 6030D
Graphics: ATi A-i-W
Sound: Philips Acoustic Edge
HDD: 2x IBM Deskstar 60XP 60gb (for system and av files)
Optical:Yamaha CRW3200 CDRW

for a start for me ....and will do the upgrades later (firewire,raid,hdds) later.....

 

[imgod2u]

I actually do a lot of video editing and as someone mentioned before, get a separate capture card. I use the ATI TV-Wonder. Great for the price. If you've got a huge budget, go with a Pinnacle card, they're usually of higher quality. The more expensive Pinnacle cards have both s-video, audio, Firewire, some even component capture so you can capture high resolution widescreen video if you'd like. Of course, if you're just doing home videos, a good VCR and a TV-Wonder will do you good.

More importantly, the SCSI setup. With RAM being limited your HD speed is almost critical. Of course, more RAM helps, but ultimately, when messing with GB of files, a stable system (WinXP/Win2k) would be recommended and the newer WDM capture drivers for the TV-Wonder along with a dedicated capture program like the one included in VirtualDub (for quality, don't use ATI's software) will do wonders. www.vcdhelp.com covers more on the capture part. Also, a faster processor. I know you already have an AthlonXP, but an extra 100MHz could mean the difference between 8 hours and 7. Despite what you may hear, video encoding is still very much processor limited.

As for the video card, it really doesn't matter. With a dedicated capture card you can get anything from an ATI Rage to a Geforce 3 Ti 500 and it really wouldn't affect your capture at all (unless you want hardware assisted Mpeg2 playback, then get the Radeon 8500). Mpeg2 decoder cards are outdated and with the hardware acceleration already available on modern video cards, you don't need it. Also, a SB Audigy. I recommend this not because of any specific features but simply because the drivers are improved and its more compatible with the win2k/XP OS's (or so I hear from the reviews). I've heard horror stories about the Acoustic Edge and its drivers and have personally experienced the horror of the Live! drivers.

I'd suggest you go with SCSI instead of an IDE RAID setup simply because IDE takes up more CPU and overall system resources (not to mention insane access times) and in work like this, you need all the system resources you can get. Not to mention IDE devices can't be accessed simultaneously (per channel) so if you're waiting for your video to finish and would like to change a few desktop settings or move some files around on another drive, tough luck. That leads me to another thing, separate drives. One drive for the system to run on (Windows to boot from) and the other drive to put all your data and do your work on (temporary DIR's to capture video to and store video from, etc.) I'd suggest at least a U160 controller (make it Adaptec for compatibility reasons) and 2x10k rpm drives, one can be 18GB for the system to run off while the other should be at least 30GB.

Plextor's CDRW is a great drive, but if you want to run high resolution, high quality video (not going to get much from home VHS anyway, but still), get yourself a DVD+RW. Phillips makes this great one. As for the DVD drive. Lite-On makes this great 16x drive. I don't know how it matters if you're not planning on ripping DVD's.

Is this a dedicated system just for video encoding or are you planning on doing other things as well?

 

[wepopfresh]

Just buy a G4 with final cut pro 3 and you'll have all you need, and not have to worry about configuring a system.

 

[hoihtah]

iamgod2u
are you currently working with scsi hd's?
i don't want to argue the aged comparison of scsi vs. ide.
scsi rocks ide any day... as long as price is not an issue.

when price is an issue (i'm assuming that for johnmaster it is)
i'd have to say going ide raid is not as bad of an option.

i purchased an ide raid card for $20.00.
and with that i've hooked up 2x 7200rpm drives.
which i use for capturing... and with striping /raid...
there's plenty of speed not to be dropping frames.

i have another 7200rpm ide drive for systems / apps.
i agree with you on this point. it is beneficial to separate the two.
but you have to remember, because of this two drive setup, the slow downs of ide is not as exposed as you might think...

and the slow access time, i don't think is much of an issue when you are dealing with files this size. of course we would all like to have x15 drives.
but again, if cost is an issue, ide looks mighty good.

johnmaster,
i like what you have listed. i'd go with sb audigy for sound card instead of onboard... it's got firewire port built in... so it's an added plus.