Help:Friends doing drugs.... can I help them?

[veryape]

Speaking from the point of view of an ex-heroin addict,I will tell you that if he is physically addicted, can not just stop cold turkey w/o getting dreadfully sick. He needs to withdraw at a detox or hospital and after that phase he needs to get some hardcore counseling and group therapy. I can tell you that nothing worked for me except overdose,losing friends and loved ones(best friend od'ed and died 3yrs ago)and going on Methadone,which I will likely be on for the rest of my life. Heroin is no joke. Its worse than any other drug in the fact that you need it so your not dreadfully ill ands suicidal. Try and get your friend some help,it could save his life. Just remember that it can not be forced without his participation. And calling the cops is a foolish idea,you will just lose a friend and make him more afraid to get help. Anyways Good luck,
John-Paul

[edit]hey amb#cog,I live in Warwick. Whats up?
DABANSHEE,speaking from experience I have got to tell you that whatever your experiences have been they not the norm. Heroin is hardly ever just a phase, and having lived in RI on and off since birth I can tell you that amb#cog's depiction is very accurate. I have been around many many dope fiends and can tell you that most who start heroin never stop until they die or go on Methadone,the % of heroin recovery is very small. I do agree that if h were legal like Methadone there would be far less deaths. I also would like to point out that withdrawal usualy takes months to end. The worst is over in a week but symptoms persist up to six months. Very few feel good after three days but those people do exist just like people who sleep with aids patients many times and never get aids,it all depends on the person. In my case I stay terribly dopesick for two weeks and have symptoms for around two months.

 

[DABANSHEE]

Methadone withdrawel takes about 4 weeks
Heroin withdrawel takes 4 days

I know back in the days when I used to indulge I went through a couple of periods of '4 day flu' as we called it. Mind you it was a long time ago (it always feels worse at the time though - hot 'n cold sweating, sore kidneys, cramps, vomiting, diarrhoea, no energy, insomnia). I've only used the sh!t about 5 times over the last 8 years & except for a couple of times while I was in Amsterdam over a year ago, haven't used any in nearly 4 years. To be honest I prefer a nice ale these days. I've even given up smoking to - I havent smoke a cigarette in years.

Anything after that 4 days is just in the mind, coming from not being straight for so long one is unfamiliar with just being oneself. Also if one is use to being off their face all the time, just being straight can feel very threatning & all ones insecurities return. It's this reason that most addicts end up busting. Alcoholics go through exactly the same thing & so do people who were addicted to drugs that arn't physically addictive, & thus sufferred no physical withdrawel. Just the mental sh!t which is probably worse.

Plus many people drag out their heroin withdrawel by taking pills/alcohol to help with coming off it, Also many heroin users are also addicted to serapaxes & other benzos like rohypnol. So when they go into a 12 step style unmedicated detox & they are still feeling like sh!t after 2 weeks its actually the pills they are still withdrawing from not the heroin (benzos can take 4 weeks to withdraw from, just like methadone does).

 

[Azraele]

Tell his parents! Try to talk him into counseling/rehab

 

[veryape]

Trust me,if it were in the mind I would have never gone on Methadone,since I detoxed for a week and got out and was still sick,I decided that I could not go for 2 weeks w/o going to work. That is really patronizing to say. Like I said everyone is different and if you say its all in your head speak for yourself because I know the difference between physical pain and imagined pain. You don't get physical symptoms from imagined sickness. Not sleeping for two months straight besides about an hour a night simply because your body can take no more and just shuts down. I just wish people could feel the imagined pain for a couple minutes and then make those statements.

And please no comments about how we did it to ourselves blah blahblah etc. We know that. If junkies knew it would turn out the way it usually does,destroying lives so thoroughly,we would have thought twice,but are usually in situations that hinder clear thought. This country needs to educate our children more on the effects and repercussions of drugs. And parents need to take more responsibility also.

People should not pass judgement because they do not know this persons situation . Good luck helping your friend.

[edit]DABANSHEE,Most of this post is not directed at you. I just wanted you to know that. I just disasgree about the sickness being imagined. The rest of the post is just to the general public.

 

[cpars]

"tough love" "arms length"

 

[SuperGroove]

What I don't get, is how they keep justifying the use of drugs. If not an escape from life, it's to help them see things which they couldn't see before.

I HATE IT! My friend is the smartest person I know and I truly admire him. With all that has happened to him, he's started drugs. He doesn't know why I'm judgemental, but I've seen TOO many of my old friends go the same path as him. THe only thing I can do being so far away, I can only tell him he's wasting his life. He's my best friend...damnit...I hate drugs and alcohol. If he goes this route, my friendship fall along the wayside. I can't respect anyone who justifies drugs. I just can't

I hope you can work things out with your friend...maybe you should tell his parents or loved one? I'm seriously consider this path as he's got WAAAY to much to lose(4.0GPA in all honors and AP classes as well as getting a 1400+ on his SAT). He's got a sister who looks up to him and parents that are extremely proud of him. I just don't get it. Both our lives have been made up of tragic situations, but never did I think that drugs were a way out. Instead, I've started to excercise constantly and have strived to become more physically fit. Damnit...I can't stand this!!!

Sorry for crapping on your thread,
Paul

 

[eakers]

you know why ppl do drugs?
because they feel good.
there is nothing you can do to stop him from doing drugs, but what you can do is not abandon him. eventually he will (hopefully) relize that drugs arent that good and that he can do more with his life, if they are infact consuming him. try to talk to him about it but dont be surprised if he doesnt want to talk to you about it and gets angry.

*kat. <-- drugs are bad.

 

[IamDavid]

Drugs and alcohol have destroyed the lives of allot of my friends and family. I've learned that no matter how hard you try to set someone strait, in the end, its all up to the person using..

 

[Ultima200]

I've never done anyting besides weed and booze so I am not &quot;experienced&quot; with Heroin, but I have heard that smokeing weed is a good way to get out of heroin. I saw a show on it and they said it worked quite well....

 

[DABANSHEE]

Just look it up in any medical book veryape, it only takes 4 days to withdraw from heroin (other narcotics take more though, methadon can take 4 weeeks or more)

What happens if someone takes heroin regularly for a month (or 2 weeks if the've been addicted to it before) is that their body stops producing its own endorphines, as the opioid receptors in the brain detects all this heroin &amp; thinks its over producing endorphines so its switchs off the bodies own production of endorphines. Once stops taking heroin (or should I say artificial endorphines) it then takes the body about 3 days from the last heroin is worn off before the body is producing endorphines at the normal rate again. The withdrawel symptoms come from the lack of endorphines &amp; stop once the body is producing them again.

The reason why it takes the body 4 weeks to fully adjust after methadone addiction, is because methadone accumilates in the body. Methadone has a half life of 22 hours, so if you take the same dose every day as most do, then when they take their daily dose they still have nearly half the dose in them from the day before &amp; nearly a quarter from the day before that, so it keeps accumilating, &amp; one develops a huge tolerance. This is also how methadone blocks heroin in anything less than huge doses as the opioid receptors in the brain are all blocked by all the methadone in there. However it also means it takes a long time for the methadone to get out of ones symptom to. That is why Methadone withdrawels are much more prolonged but to begin with much mild as one still has relatively small amounts of methadone in them during much of the 1st half of the withdrawel period, &amp; the bodies wont start producing endorphines till its all gone &amp; even then it starts producing them slowly &amp; it can tak 4 weeks till someone is normal.

I studied up on all this a few years ago when an old girlfriend of mine was investigating the use of the Naltraxone rapid withdrawel method. This is where one takes a narcotic antagonist called naltraxone (its similar to narcane, which is what medics give people who OD te reverse the effects of the narcotic), which has buggerall narcotic properties but blocks the opioid recepts in the brain. This has the effect of making the brain thing there are no endorphines (or sythetic endorphines) present &amp; tricks the brain into producing endorphines strait away. It also stops any heroin or methadone in the system from working which sends the body into rapid withdrawel. However as the endorphines have been tricked into production straight away the withdrawel is mostly over after about 6 hours. It's Useally done under general anathetic or deep sleep medication as the withdrawel is very rapid &amp; thus servere.

But of course that doesnt do anything about the metal aguish from the unfamiliaruty of being straight, which is hard for someone who's use to being off their faces for what seems like yonks - feelings of insecurity that caused the chronic drug abuse in the 1st place come back. All those long term symtoms you talked about (the months of insomnia etc) comes from that mental sickness of addiction (not the physical withdrawel of heroin). Alcoholics goes threw this sort of things for months or years if they don't get their drink (ever heard the term 'dry drunk') until they deal with the issues that made them tern to the grog in the 1st place &amp; rehabilite. Actually even compulsive gamblers go through the same thing for many months after they stop gambling.

But time also heals - the longer one stays straight with turning to a drink or a drug the easier it gets. 'A day at a time' &amp; that sort of thing.

 

[veryape]

Yes,it takes 3-4 days to get over the worst part i.e. not being able to wipe your own ass. After that it takes up to six months to totally get over everything like sleeping and diarea. If you read anything that specifically focuses on heroin withdrawal,like a book on it,not just an arcticle that talks about a bunch of different drugs so it really doesn't get in depth or the writers havce not done enough research. Trust me,anyone who specializes in heroin addiction will tell you that it is not over in 4 days. I don't know how you can sit there and tell me it is over in a couple of days when I have been through the withdrawal many times and know what it entails.Jesus. If you go to the forums on methadone and ask most people who have withdrawn from heroin how long it took them to gert their bodies back to normal,without cramps,sleeplessness and diarea,most will say it takes around a month. Methadone can take upwards of a year.

I'm talking about not having any physical symptoms left. Not just getting to the point of being able to walk. You just cannot generalize like that because everyones chemistry is different,and you may be an exception to the rule. When I leave detox after a week I can bearly walk so tell me why is that? Am I imagining it? I seriously doubt it. I wish you were right.

I could pull up a link that says what i'm saying is right and you can do the same. It depends on who you ask. But honestly,most are misinformed on the subject,except for substance abuse professionals,and some of them are even misinformed. All I can say is it takes me a hell of a lot longer than three days,and the same goes for most people I have met in detoxes,rehabs and in general. Look at it how you like. I cannot show you.

[edit]I have read all the literature on how heroin and methadone works so I know all about the receptors and such and I can tell you that some peoples brains never get back to normal. In other words their receptors stay mostly empty and do not allow for the natural painkiller to affect them anymore. That in turn causes them to have severe leg pains,stomach cramps and various other symptoms directly associated with withdrawal. These symptoms are not imagined and can go on for quite some time. They can also come back after having gone away for long periods of time. I am not an expert on the subject but I am telling you my personal experience and you are basically calling me a liar or telling me I imagined the symptoms. I just don't know why you think I would bother saying any of this unless it were true. I'm not a fool,I know the difference between mental anguish and physical pain. Trust me.

 

[cpars]

Kinda like me reading a bunch a books on pregnancy and then telling my wife what she outta be experiencing according to my findings huh!

 

[RGN]

You know, I just might print this thread and show it to him. It may be the best evidence against his actions.

Thanks all!

 

[cpars]

Take care and good luck seriously

 

[DABANSHEE]

I can sit here &amp; say it because as well as every medical testbook saying what I just said I've experianced the '4 day flu' on a number of occasions.

Look at all the people who were on morphine for months in hospital &amp; are fine after their '4 day flu'

Anything after that comes from the sickness of addiction, not physical withdrawel off heroin.

BTW, not everyone suffers from the sickness of addiction, that's why casual drinkers don't suffer from insominia if they don't have a drink, but alcoholics do.

I have a friend of mine than goes delusional after he goes through withdrawels, to the state he has to be on psych drugs to handle it. Those are defintly not the symptoms of heroin withdrawel. They are the symptons of his addiction &amp; it was why he turned to using heroin in the 1st place.

Remember chronic drug abuse is really a side effect of a deeper problem, rather than the problem itself.

After all why do the same people continue to go back on the gear again after all the sh!t the've gon through to get off &amp; stay clean?

BTW, no where did I say such feelings are imagined - being delusional is not an imagined sympton &amp; neither is suffering from long term insomnia, but they are a sympton of addiction, not physical withdrawel.

 

[veryape]

Exactly cpars. I am definitely not trying to argue but I know about the subject first hand.

 

[MISTER 2 U]

RGN,
that is hard to deal with. this was posted in the thread
<<<<<<<<<<<I hate drugs and alcohol. If he goes this route, my friendship fall along the wayside. I can't respect anyone who justifies drugs. I just can't>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I don't agree

YOUR FRIENDSHIP might be improtant to this person if you are a friend you will try to help just as you are doing.
I have seen to many people die and ruin thier lives with drugs and it seems to me when people stop caring thats when the trouble starts.

As far as using drugs try to ask him why. If he is using for the high try getting him high on something else like
extrem sports that have a big rush to them.If he is using because he is missing something in his life get help.
What worked for me was change of location I did not have any of my buddies to hang and do drugs with.
What is really sad is when I go back home the same people are still using drugs and thier life has gone no where.


good luck

 

[sparkle]

Well, if you really wanted to help him you could score for him!

Seriously though, if he doesn't want to quit he never will. That's the way these things work.