Help for a good father who's in a custody fight..

[Mackie2k]

Background: My friend has 3 boys, ages 16, 11 and 7. The younger ones are his biological kids and the 16 year old is his adopted son that was his ex wife's son.

Quick Story:

Up until two years ago, the kids were living with their mother, my friend was just paying child support and she never let him see them or call them.

Then about two years ago, the mother basically abondoned them with her "girlfriend" for a couple weeks. The Girlfriend concerned for the kids safety called the dad and told him what was going on. He went to the kids home, took the wife to court and got Temporary Custody of the 3 kids. All 3 kids at the time agreed that the best place was to be with their dad, as did the judge and the EX Wife, because she had major issues.

Issues over the next year:

The younger kids are great, no problems + doing wonderful in school. The oldest kid is slacking off, getting horrible grades, getting into trouble at school and being disobidient.

He is given all the attention in the world, computers to help him with homework, people helping him with his work, etc etc, but no matter what, he continues to mess around and fail.

His father tries everything, including grounding him, losing other privelges, but nothing really works.

Cut to Present Day:

The kids spend 6 weeks with their Mother in another state over the summer. The oldest kid decides he wants to stay with his mother because he "thinks he'll have a better chance to succeed" there. In reality he just likes it there because he has no responsiblity to watch his younger brothers, or do anything he doesn't want to beacuse his mother doesn't care what he does and she's busy with her own life.

The mother also lets him drink beer (verified by the younger kids), have his girlfriend over (having sex) and has put him into Drivers Ed (a priviledge that was revoked by his father because of his 1.5 grade point average)

The mom and son spoke with the Dad about staying, and while the dad was open to it, asked that the Son speak with people in his extended family to get advice about what was best, not wanting to bad mouth his mother....but really help the son to understand that it's best for him to stay with his dad (which all the family members support on both sides of the family)

The father wants what is best for his son, which is obviously to be with him where he's properly taken care of and monitored....

The Ex-Wife refused to send him home with the other two kids going against the court ordered custody. She also filed a TRO and petition to get temporary custody of the son so he can stay there. He's now enrollled in school there as well.

At this point my friend just wants to get Permanent Custody of the other 2 kids and let the older one live there. But he does not want to send the other two kids to the Mom because he's afraid she'll attempt to poison them and repeat this whole cycle again

Any advice? Should my friend try to get the older kid back? Let him go?

From a legal perspective and a father's perspective, what is the best thing he can do?

He's so torn because he loves this older kid, but this kid has done so many hurtful things that he doesn't want to jeopardize the two younger kids.

Cliffs:

1. ExWife Dumps kids
2. Dad gets temporary custody for 2 years
3. After summer this year, Mom won't send oldest kid who's misbehaving home, against a court order
4. Dad needs advice what is best to do for the protection of the older kid and the younger kids who are acting good.

 

[imported_Tick]

Go for sole custody of the two kids, and tell the older one to have a nice life.

 

[PingSpike]

I'd say if he gets to keep two of the kids he's way ahead of the game. Usually the mother has to be a crack addicted murder for the father to get the kids.

 

[Sex Smurf]

Yep, save the 2 younger kids from that bad influence. In 2 years, that older one will be on his own anyway.

 

[RandomFool]

Best thing he can do is talk to the older kid and try to convince him he'll be better off with his father...When you're 16 you can pretty much choose which parent you want to live with so there's not much hope there. As for the younger ones get them the hell away from her.

 

[jdub1107]

Originally posted by: Tick
Go for sole custody of the two kids, and tell the older one to have a nice life.

I would have to agree with this one. 16yr is kind of old to try to change. It's not worth risking the 2 younger boys either.

 

[OdiN]

It sounds like the 16 year old needs a good beating to change his attitude. Lay down the law and show him who's boss.

 

[hevnsnt]

sounds like you know alot of "your friend's" business

 

[Mackie2k]

We're best friends.

 

[Carbo]

Originally posted by: Tick
Go for sole custody of the two kids, and tell the older one to have a nice life.

:beer:

 

[Pliablemoose]

Wow, I had a very similar situation, and was granted guardianship over a teen who wasn't mine (and had little contact with) and my bio child.

Here's the trick-courts hate to split up kids, your friend has to have enough evidence to show the judge needs to split up the children.

If the judge goes along with that, your friend has the luxury of time to ensure his bio children are happy living with him over the years he has before the kids can make up their own minds.

Fact is there's little that can de done to protect him against the behavior of a vengeful, child destroying ex.

He needs to make sure the children understand he has unconditional love for them wherever they chose to live and he needs to do things that promote wholesomeness & appropriate behavior so they (bio kids) can't be tempted by mother, church, school, ties to the community, friends, etc...

Wish him luck for me, I ended up splitting the children and it's worked out well for me thus far, 3 years left... Of course the ex hasn't paid child support or medical expenses for the last 9 months either.

 

[Lonyo]

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
Wow, I had a very similar situation, and was granted guardianship over a teen who wasn't mine (and had little contact with) and my bio child.

Here's the trick-courts hate to split up kids, your friend has to have enough evidence to show the judge needs to split up the children.

If the judge goes along with that, your friend has the luxury of time to ensure his bio children are happy living with him over the years he has before the kids can make up their own minds.

Fact is there's little that can de done to protect him against the behavior of a vengeful, child destroying ex.

He needs to make sure the children understand he has unconditional love for them wherever they chose to live and he needs to do things that promote wholesomeness & appropriate behavior so they (bio kids) can't be tempted by mother, church, school, ties to the community, friends, etc...

Wish him luck for me, I ended up splitting the children and it's worked out well for me thus far, 3 years left... Of course the ex hasn't paid child support or medical expenses for the last 9 months either.

Surely the fact that the 16yo is not 100% related to the others might affect the whole splitting up issue?
If the 16yo is not his biologically, then he should say "I want custody of MY kids (biologically).
Also, can the 16yo not make up his own mind, or do the courts not care about that?

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

THe oldest kid is over the age of 12, and (at least in the Great State of Texas) he essentially gets to choose where he wants to live... unless you can convince the judge that he is not acting in his own best interest.

I read that there were temporary orders, but I did not read final orders. Did your guy finish the case, or did he let it get dismissed without final orders?

... basically if the orders of the Court remain in full force and effect, there should be no problem filing a writ of habeas corpus to get the child back - even if she lives in another state.

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

Originally posted by: Lonyo

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
Wow, I had a very similar situation, and was granted guardianship over a teen who wasn't mine (and had little contact with) and my bio child.

Here's the trick-courts hate to split up kids, your friend has to have enough evidence to show the judge needs to split up the children.

If the judge goes along with that, your friend has the luxury of time to ensure his bio children are happy living with him over the years he has before the kids can make up their own minds.

Fact is there's little that can de done to protect him against the behavior of a vengeful, child destroying ex.

He needs to make sure the children understand he has unconditional love for them wherever they chose to live and he needs to do things that promote wholesomeness & appropriate behavior so they (bio kids) can't be tempted by mother, church, school, ties to the community, friends, etc...

Wish him luck for me, I ended up splitting the children and it's worked out well for me thus far, 3 years left... Of course the ex hasn't paid child support or medical expenses for the last 9 months either.

Surely the fact that the 16yo is not 100% related to the others might affect the whole splitting up issue?
If the 16yo is not his biologically, then he should say "I want custody of MY kids (biologically).
Also, can the 16yo not make up his own mind, or do the courts not care about that?

Kids (depending on the state) usually get to make an election of managing conservator.

 

[Gravity]

Originally posted by: PingSpike
I'd say if he gets to keep two of the kids he's way ahead of the game. Usually the mother has to be a crack addicted murder for the father to get the kids.

So True. The older one may be a victim in the long run.

Women rule in the court room for some reason. I have a close friend that is constantly being screwed by his ex in court. To make matters worse, she married a multi-millionare and they have a legal team focused on grinding the dad far into the ground. The only good news is that the kids are turning against the psycho mom.

Divorce is nasty and it's very hard on kids.

I posted a thread on this several weeks ago, related to the book "the unexpected legacy of divorce." It was a chilling read.

 

[funboy6942]

Unfortunatly if he tries to get custody over the oldest he will never forgive his father for what he has done, most likely run away to his mothers or move in when he turns 18.

Then if he does nothing but go for the other two and let him live with mom as his life will go to crap. Become a drug user drop out and gets older will then be pissed at dad for not doing anything to prevent him from turning into what he is. Its a damned if you do damned if you dont situation and unfortunatly since he has pretty much made up his mind there is nothing you can do then let him go and pray he takes his head out of his ass. Most likely that wont happen either if mom is a bad influance.

But what ever happends get full custody over they younger kids and not only keep mom away but if brother goes there keep him away as well. They will look up to him and see he doesnt have to do jack, smokes, drinks, has a DL, and will want to leave when they get older too because at that point Dad would be "the man" holding them back.

BUT If anything, what I would do, if Dad wants to keep him around and a eye on him away from mother he should losen up the ropes. Let him get his DL and not harp on him too much. This way he will most likely pull head out of ass because he is with the dad and not around the bad influance 24/7. I would bring this option up to son. Hes 16 maybe dad just isnt giving him enough room to grow and make mistakes? At least this way though he will be with him and a better chance at life.

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: Gravity

Originally posted by: PingSpike
I'd say if he gets to keep two of the kids he's way ahead of the game. Usually the mother has to be a crack addicted murder for the father to get the kids.

So True. The older one may be a victim in the long run.

Women rule in the court room for some reason. I have a close friend that is constantly being screwed by his ex in court. To make matters worse, she married a multi-millionare and they have a legal team focused on grinding the dad far into the ground. The only good news is that the kids are turning against the psycho mom.

Divorce is nasty and it's very hard on kids.

I posted a thread on this several weeks ago, related to the book "the unexpected legacy of divorce." It was a chilling read.

Did her lawyer happen to have a fit of unwavering honesty, resulting in a crisis of conscience and a hilarious yet touching courtroom drama?

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: Tick
Go for sole custody of the two kids, and tell the older one to have a nice life.

 

[George P Burdell]

Originally posted by: Tick
Go for sole custody of the two kids, and tell the older one to have a nice life.

QFT. There's only as much the father can do.

 

[habib89]

he's 16 now? i think the dad should sit down with him and just level with him.. tell him he's gonna get fvcked up if he stays with his mom, cause his mom will take 0 responsibility for him.. this isn't for the sake of the child, it's for the sake of the father.. i think the dad needs to know that he tried all he can, but at 16, the boy can make his own decisions (even if not legally) and if the dad just sits down and levels with him, and the boy still doesn't want to come, then he'll just have to give him up, and concentrate on his two others.. but at least he tried... just hope and pray that the 16 year old doesn't kill himself before he realizes what he has in his father..

 

[Bryophyte]

I think that by not fighting for custody of the 16 year old, he would be sending all 3 kids the message that if they make a mistake, he may abandon them. That's not a message you want to send to kids. They should feel safe where they live. If he won't stick by the kid while the kid is going through a rough phase in his life, and instead lets him go somewhere that he is not safe, then he is not being the parent he should be.

That whole "MY kids (biologically)" is just pure bullsh1t (this is directed at Lonyo.) Any parent who has that kind of mindset towards his own adopted son should be horsewhipped. He adopted the oldest child, so the kid is now his son 100%, the same as his biological children.

edit: typo

 

[PingSpike]

Its a tough nut to crack...as the oldest, his mom's half ass parenting doctorine probably sunk in the most during the time she had them. It'll be tough to get him to get his sh|t together because getting a teenager to respect you as an authority figure period is hard. He didn't have the luxury of being able to lay the ground work when he was young like with the other kids. But funboy42 is right about his example tainting the younger kids as well. Younger brothers look up to their older brothers a lot, and they will without a doubt emulate their idiot mistakes.

Bryophyte is right though about the abandonment message being sent to the youngest, but the oldest probably already feels abandoned by his father since he wasn't there for years. Nevermind that he didn't have a choice, the kid won't really grasp that until much later in his life.

It might not be possible to get through to this kid. I've always believed you have to instill a good sense of values into kids early on, because by the time they reach their teenage years its already to late...the parent has become more of a spectator in their lives then they realize/care to admit.

But what do I know.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Devil's Advocate is correct, the older child can pick & chose who he wishes to live with, so that's a done deal.

I'd just let him go with no fight or expense, and focus on raising the 2 remaining children as best he can.

Courts are funny about genetic relations, and I agree with them, if one serves as a parent, the courts generally recognize you as a parent with all the rights & responsibilities it entails.

There have been several cases where a child previously thought to be a bio child and accepted as a bio child was proven to be genetically unrealted to one or the other parent and the courts treated the genetically dissimilar parent as a full parent in spite of the dna testing. And there are no cases I've ever heard of where this has not been the case except when genetic testing was done shortly after the child's birth.

 

[Mackie2k]

It's a hard choice I'm sure for him...

I really appreciate all your help and answers....