Help: Designing Home Network for new home (Walls are open)

[letsgetsilly]

Hey everyone,

I have been asked to provide a design for a wired/wireless network for my g/f's parents' new home. They are building it from scratch, and it is currently barebones. I really could use your help and suggestions.

They have a large home (total square footage of living space: 4,700 sq. ft.), with 3 floors. The specs. for the floors are listed at the bottom of this post (relavent for questions about WiFi networking).

They are in the a rural area and have a satellite internet connection. Here are my ideas:

• Bring the satellite connection into a central location in the home that is out of sight (to hide the wires).

• Hook up with a wireless router, and run one CAT6 wire from this router to each individual jack within the home. They are going to want probably about 5 jacks in the home total, maybe more.

• Then, run an additional wire up to the third floor that will connect to a wireless router at that location in order to boost the signal throughout the home.

They would like to have one computer on their first floor, and wireless capabilities on their third. However, they wish to have the home prepared for future technology considerations, and additional machines that they may have in the future (thus the several wired connections throughout).

Please let me know what you think of my suggestions. I also could use any specific products (such as routers with more ports than just the standard 5, faceplates, etc..).

Will this setup fit their needs? Will it fulfill the needs of the future with Internet 2 and an increased dependency on a wired home?

I will eagerly be awaiting your replies.

Thanks,
Adam





Floor information:

-There is a 1 1/2" concrete slab poured over a wood floor system
(traditional wood floor joists and plywood) seperating floor 1 from floor 2.

-Floor 3 is a library loft that is half-open to reveal the second floor below, and half covered with traditional wood joists and a plywood floor. On top of that are metal troughs with plastic tubing running through them (heating system) and Durock board (1/2" thick) on top of that. Durock is concrete board (like drywall only made light with lightweight concrete).

 

[randal]

Drop at least one network jack into each room in the house. Trust me, just do it. Also, when you deliver a jack, don't deliver one cable - deliver at least 4. Maybe more. Run fiber & coax while you're at it if you can. If at all possible, put in the largest conduit you can, as it will make any future work incredibly easier. When I say deliver 4+ cat6, I really mean it -- you can run almost anything on cat6. Delivering fiber will open up things considerably to future use, as well conduit. Having it in every room is definitely thinking ahead, because the rooms /will/ be repurposed throughout the life of the house.

You don't even have to finish the cat6/other drops, just put them in the wall and near the junction boxes - you never know when you might need a new random drop here and there. As for your switching and stuff, buy whatever will fit your needs for now; since everything is centrally located, you can upgrade a single location (say, 4port switch -> 16port switch) very easily and expand your facility effortlessly.

It is a LOT easier and very, very inexpensive (comparativelyy) to put in shittons of cabling while you have no walls. Once you put up drywall, complexity, labor and time costs skyrocket, so put in as much as is physically possible now while you are able.

 

[letsgetsilly]

Are you recommending puting in Fiber optics cabling as well? What would be their purpose? And for coax? You'll have to forgive me, my networking experience involves setting up a 10 player LAN party and a class on the subject.

Also, you mentioned just running wire to junction boxes. I would like to know what you mean...I was just planning on running the wires straight to the jacks, with no breaks.

thanks for your help!

-Adam

 

[letsgetsilly]

Another quick question...I had a friend suggest running a CAT6 wire to a jack, and then somehow continuing that connection to another port. I told him this would not work because of IP addressing issues, etc. But, I just wanted to check with you guys, to make sure you could confirm this.

Thanks,

-Adam

 

[The Big D]

Originally posted by: letsgetsilly
Are you recommending puting in Fiber optics cabling as well? What would be their purpose? And for coax? You'll have to forgive me, my networking experience involves setting up a 10 player LAN party and a class on the subject.

Also, you mentioned just running wire to junction boxes. I would like to know what you mean...I was just planning on running the wires straight to the jacks, with no breaks.

thanks for your help!

-Adam

Fiber optic is gonna be more useful in the future, my neighborhood just got all wired up with fiber and my neighbor who works for verizon has been testing out the fiber optic internet connection. The whole house is wired, took a long time for 5 guys to snake the wires through the whole house since the house has been there a while (which is why its good to put it in while theres no walls, as snaking wire is not fun lol). anyway, my neighbors getting a 12mbps connection compared to my measely 500kbps from broadband, so you can figure out why it might be a good idea (esp since you can use it for almost every other piece of audio/video equip in the house if your not using it for networking). Just remember not to go farther then 320ft i believe in a single run. I dont think you would be, but it sounds like its gonna be a big house =p

Anyway, rg6 (coax) im guessing is most likey going to be used for all the video going through the house provided you get a cable amp/splitter somewhere (I use the Open house 550BID)


oh yea also, i think randal meant just to run the wires near where the outlets will be in the wall even if they arent hooked up to jacks in the wall plate. and i agree on 4+ runs of cat6, if its within the budget of course =p

 

[amdskip]

Originally posted by: letsgetsilly
Another quick question...I had a friend suggest running a CAT6 wire to a jack, and then somehow continuing that connection to another port. I told him this would not work because of IP addressing issues, etc. But, I just wanted to check with you guys, to make sure you could confirm this.

Thanks,

-Adam

You are correct, definately will not work. I would run 2 wires of cat 6 to each jack with every bedroom having 2 jacks and other rooms one jack. You could also run the phone over cat 6/5 so you could have it in the same jack too.

Fiber sounds like its too involved imho for your application.

 

[spidey07]

I'll chime in...

you never get a chance to run all new cabling in a home. Now is the time to go overboard.

Run the combo cable that contains two cat5e/6, plus fiber, plus RG6 coax to ever single room. And then run some more - especially the kitchen/appliances (it is not far off for appliances to need/have internet connectivity)

To me one should put two or more outlets to every room and in the kitchen run one data outlet per wired electrical outlet.

So run the cable, you don't have to terminate it.

Pay special attention the the home theater as it will need MUCH, MUCH more.

 

[letsgetsilly]

What is the difference between CAT5e and CAT6? Won't sticking with CAT6 do the job? Also, I don't see the use for fiber opitcs, which is also going to be pretty expensive without and percievable use.

Also, what do you mean by "terminate it"? (Sorry, again--new to this terminology)

Thanks for all the help so far!
-Adam

 

[amdskip]

cat 5e will handle gig right now which is plenty for home networks imho. Cat 6 connectors generally cost more money, etc.

Yeah, I wouldn't put in fiber, no real use for your application.

 

[skyking]

In the home theatre area, I would put in a couple of trunk runs of the blue flexible conduit to boxes that are placed logically for the speakers/components.
Essentially circle the room, maintaining a decent seperation from power. You can then pulll wires as you wish in that area, even after the room is finished.
Home theatre will change and change again, so having good conduit in that room is a must.

 

[Yellow Dog]

Many hybrid cables made for the home have 2 - CAT5 cables and 2 - Coax for cable/satellite. Run the cable to every room even if you just leave it behind a blank wall plate. It can always be terminated for data, phone, tv, later. Adding drops later is a lot more of a challange.

 

[kevnich2]

Don't take this the wrong way OP, but I really don't think your in line for planning a network for a new house. I agree 100% with spidey on this. It's not a question of if there's a use NOW, but just wait another 2-5 years and people will be wondering why we didn't start using fiber optic sooner. A nice cheap option is to buy the combo cable like spidey said that has two pair of CAT6, fiber optic and coax cable and I would suggest running two of those to each and every jack in the house. Termination the cable essentially means putting that cable into a plate jack so it can be used. You only need to terminate what will be needed NOW, but if you have another pair of CAT6 and fiber in the wall already, your comlpetely set for the future. The thing with CAT6 is that almost anything can run through it, including data and voice (telephone line). Running two combo cables per jack will suffice you for the future, this way if you need a few more data jacks, you don't need to run the cable, it's already there, you just need to terminate it. It's better to spend the extra few dollars now, even if you don't need it now and have the cable in the walls already than trying to run it a few years down the road when I will guarantee you houses will be fully utilizing CAT6 as well as fiber.

 

[Garion]

My two cents:

As Spidey mentioned, wire each room with at least a pair of Cat5E/Cat6 cables and RG6 coax as a general rule. For places you KNOW will have a computer/TV, do more - i.e., in the family room plan for a set of fibers where the TV will probably go, plus one somewhere else for a possible computer.

Of the two Cat6 cables, terminate one with two phone lines - You can split the 4 pairs into two phone connectors (which actually gives you four lines, but that's probably moot). If money is tight, leave the other Cat6 curled up in there and terminate it later.

Be sure that all your cables are run to a single central location - Your little wiring closet.

If you can afford it, run your cables inside of conduit to each location and leave a pull string. This will allow you to EASILY add fiber cable or additional Cat6 cables later, if it becomes necessary. Personally, I wouldn't run fiber initially, as it's not really used for much right now, but could be in the future (although I doubt it'll be used for the next 10 years).

- G

 

[skyking]

I'd hold off on fiber for now also. The price will likely come down as it gets used more widely.

 

[The Big D]

yea the fiber is still expensive and prolly not going to be used for a while in less populated states. but thats why it depends on where you live, as i have said my area is already wired up for when we do get the service from verizon, and my neighbor is already using it. And since its a noticeable difference, its why i suggest it.

if you can find it in the bulk cable for a good price, why not right?

 

[Wizkid]

You don't need fibre throughout the house to get fibre internet from Verizon. 12mbps is still relatively slow compared to cat5e networks (up to 1000mbps at this point).

 

[boomerang]

My $.02. And you're not going to like it.

If they have enough to build a 4700 sq. ft. home, have them hire professionals to do this. Your questions are too basic in nature for you to be taking on this job.

And remember that when something's not working right (and this could be something of the nature of a DNS Server problem with their ISP) you are the one they are going to be calling. Every little hiccup is going to be your concern whether it's the result of your work or not.

I'm not trying to be a dick or piss you off. Please don't take it that way. My phone rings all the time with friends and family asking the most ridiculous questions. They will pester you to death.

 

[letsgetsilly]

Yes I know about all of the problems associated with setting up a system for someone, and then dealing with the consequences. I only ask for such clarity so that I am certain I do not do them a disservice by setting up their network. I am fully capable of taking on this task, following-up with it, and most importantly, filled with a great desire to learn as much as I possibly can about every aspect of computer technology, including this home network.

I understand your position, but I am willing to do the research and put the work in to find out what needs to be done. No offense taken.

Now, does anyone have some suggestions on where I can find good prices on the wall jacks as well as cable (especially this "combo cable")? This home is in the middle of Darlington WI, which is extremely rural. I don't think there is a company that is going to put them on the priority list for big bandwidth fiber optics service. I think that cat6 will do the trick.

I might be up for running multiple CAT6 cables. I might be up for Fiber wire if it is really cheap.

Another quick question that has been on my mind: When I run these wires into this networking-closet, how do I have them organized? I mean, I don't want to have just a bunch of holes in the dry wall when it goes up. Suggestions?

Thanks again,
Adam

 

[WhiteKnight]

When I wired up my fiancee's father's house I ordered my stuff from:

Page Computer
Cables to Go
New Egg

Don't rush this. I admire your resolve to get this thing done well, but take your time researching. This is a major undertaking and, as others have said, you have a lot to learn.

 

[netsysadmin]

Have they had there electrical inspection yet? Keep in mind you need to meet or exceed city/county codes for all our your wiring. Otherwise they could potentially fail the inspection.

John

 

[letsgetsilly]

I have been speaking with several of my professors today, as well as the network technicians that setup the wireless networks in my University's business building.

In their opinion, they do not see the need for Fiber optics anytime soon. At the same time, they emphasized that fiber takes a lot more training, and is not something that I could pick up too quickly. On top of all of that, I cannot see this family's use for large bandwidth operations at any time. Therefore, I am not going to recommend that they go with Fiber optics within their home.

Thank you for the links to the product pages. Some of the technicians pointed out some of the same technologies. I have a much more detailed idea of what I would like to accomplish now, thanks to everyone's help, but I will continue to ask questions and learn.

This weekend I am going to travel to their home in southwestern Wisconsin and test out the signal strength of a conventional wireless router from different areas on their home, to determine whether I will need additional access points.

Also, the family that I am working with is doing all of the contracting services and overseeing the building of his home himself (he is quite intelligent, and the home is quite impressive...soon to be featured in some home magazines). I will check with him on electrical compliances.

As of right now my strategy is going to be wired CAT6 connections to various locations in the home. I am also going to suggest laying down several more wires throughout the home leading to non-terminated blank face plates, to be used potentially in the future. I will also determine how strong their wireless connection strength will be from the central location, and add-on accordingly.

Please let me know what you guys think about this strategy. I am sorry to disapoint those who highly recommended fiber. Also, I have not put much thought into the entertainment system of this home, but I am in the position to make recommendations.

This family is literally building a library into their home, which is great, but it helps put into perspective how technically oriented they are. However, I know they would like a very nice entertainment system as well as a wireless stereo system capable of operating from their computer. If you guys have any suggestions on the entertainment side, please let me know, it is another area that I would like to learn about.

Thanks for everyone's help and consideration, I will continue to keep everyone updated with more questions and progress

-Adam

 

[spidey07]

well in all honesty fiber is very cheap. about the same as cat6.

You don't need it now, its down the road. We never though we'd need 100 Base-T or 2 GBs of memory ya know.

The the bare minimum for a regular information outlet should be two cat6 and one coax (RG6)

I say leave this one to the professionals. I believe just looking at it from a "they need a network" perspective is a little shortsighted. A house that size needs a through wiring plan taking into consideration any possible desire (video and distribution, speaker, security, security cameras, home automation, etc)

The home entertainment area is a job best left to pros itself, especially for speaker plaement and what not/where to run wires.

oh, one last thing. When building networks you make sure the cabling plant is designed properly and then worry about how you connect things.

 

[Carp1812]

A few suggestions:

First - DEFINITELY run everything in conduit with a spare string in each conduit.

Second - Draw up a plan for the house that shows the electrical wiring and read up on how to install network cable near power cables.

Third - Install everything and then take pictures of it all before the drywall goes up. Hold a tape measure in the picture so you can see how far it is from a good reference point. No matter how great your memory is now, you will NEVER rememeber where everything is later on down the road. If they sell the house, this information will be invaluable to the new homeowner. This will also help them figure out where they can and can't hang pictures on the walls - it would be a bummer to drive a nail right through the conduit and/or cabling....

 

[letsgetsilly]

First off, cabling plant? Could you please clarify?

Secondly, video and distribution, speakers are all extremely low on their priority lists. In addition, home automation does not really appeal to them.

Again, they are people with a lot of books and the desire to browse the internet and email on occasion. This doesn't mean that they will not need these things in the future, it is just hard to see.

You mentioned "where not to lay wires" which made me think, are there any areas that I should stay away from (video too)?

When I see them this weekend, I will be sure to recommend that they seek a professional. However I am confident I can lay down a CAT6 wired+wireless network.

Thanks for all of the suggestions,
-Adam

 

[letsgetsilly]

Originally posted by: Carp1812
A few suggestions:

First - DEFINITELY run everything in conduit with a spare string in each conduit.

Second - Draw up a plan for the house that shows the electrical wiring and read up on how to install network cable near power cables.

Third - Install everything and then take pictures of it all before the drywall goes up. Hold a tape measure in the picture so you can see how far it is from a good reference point. No matter how great your memory is now, you will NEVER rememeber where everything is later on down the road. If they sell the house, this information will be invaluable to the new homeowner. This will also help them figure out where they can and can't hang pictures on the walls - it would be a bummer to drive a nail right through the conduit and/or cabling....

Will do, thanks.

-Adam