Help--can't run 1920x1200 faster than 60mhz?

[Retard]

OK, so I just got a new 28" HansG monitor. User manuel is here http://america.hannsg.net/filectrl/HG281_UM_EN.pdf



I plug it in, its at 1920x1200 automatically, and it looks great, although I can tell the refresh rate is low because it hurting my eyes.

I go to adjust it--right click on desktop, click "adapter" tab, click on "list all modes", find the 1920x 1200 resolution, and to my suprise the highest refresh rate is only 60mhz (I'm used to 85mhz).

So, I think, no problem, must just need drivers. I load up the CD, and the only special drivers they have are for Vista. Go to the website at http://usservice.hannsg.net/ and its the same. Click on the users manuel, and it looks like the highest refresh rate supported at 1920x1200 is 60mhz! What the heck? The refresh rate on the monitor is supposed to be 3ms, which is very fast, I thought for sure it could handle 85mhz.

Anybody know if I can "force" it to try a higher refresh rate, 85mhz or at least 75mhz? 60mhz just kills me.

It seems that NO resolution supports 85mhz as listed in the adapter settings--and to get 75mhz I have to drop all the way down to 1280x1024, which looks like shit (and still hurts my eyes a bit).

Any ideas, or am I just screwed?

Thanks for any help.

 

[cmdrdredd]

I think you're stuck. Usually with lower quality monitors the max refresh rate at a given resolution decreases as you move up. I'm not saying you got a bad monitor, but I think it's slightly lower quality than some of the dell pannels I see people swear by.

 

[drum]

Did you have a CRT before this monitor? I think you may just need to adjust to it.
LCDs don't have a 'refresh rate' per se

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: drum
Did you have a CRT before this monitor? I think you may just need to adjust to it.
LCDs don't have a 'refresh rate' per se

No but you still set 70hz, 75hz, 80hz, 60hz etc when you select a resolution. This has an effect on your vsync, but no you're absolutely right. You should not see flicker, because LCDs don't flicker as far as I know.

 

[Retard]

Yea, 21" CRT before this, ran 85hz refresh at a lower rez no problem, no eye straint.

I was wondering why LCD monitors, with all their mini-lights, have refresh rates per se. Makes no sense given that its pixel-by-pixel. But it is DEFINATELY hurting my eyes, and I cant set it about 60hz in the properties.

Any ideas how I can get it any better?

Thanks mates.

 

[n7]

Your eyes should not see a difference between 60/70/75 Hz etc on an LCD, as they do not actually refresh like a CRT.

So your eyes hurting isn't because of that.

Likely you're just not used to how bright & sharp LCDs are.

I'd suggest turning brightness/contrast down...likely a lot since TNs often come with those maxed...

 

[CP5670]

LCDs don't flicker like CRTs, but they certainly have refresh rates. The video card still outputs frames at a fixed rate regardless of what type of monitor it's connected to. In any case though, you can't get anything above 60hz at that resolution since the DVI interface is maxed out at that refresh rate.

There does seem to be some actual benefit to the refresh rate on an LCD apart from the vsync limit though. I normally have my 90GX2 at 75hz and am used to that, but I recently switched it to another computer and it defaulted to 60hz. There was a noticeable choppiness in the mouse cursor movement in Windows, something I've seen on other LCDs/computers too. It went away when I put it back to 75hz. I've heard that most LCDs just drop frames when set to anything higher than 60hz, but I don't know how that would result in smoother mouse movements like this.

 

[Peter]

LCD monitors don't "refresh" or even flicker. The backlight permanently lights the entire surface, all pixels are driven all the time. There is no scanning beam like on CRTs. You're seeing things.

Besides, the DVI standard doesn't allow a higher data rate than 165 MHz, which amounts to 60 image updates per second, 60 Hz. (not MHz, mind.)

 

[SunnyD]

Running an LCD display at >60Hz will probably damage it. SOME LCD's suppose >60Hz, albeit at lower resolutions, usually just 75Hz.

 

[Peter]

No it won't. You have to realize that desktop panels run the input signal into a local memory buffer, and drive the display /asynchronously/ from there.

So actually, if you toy around with the input signal frequency, either /nothing/ will change at all, or the input signal processing fails to handle it at all and you get no picture at all.

 

[CP5670]

LCD monitors don't "refresh" or even flicker. The backlight permanently lights the entire surface, all pixels are driven all the time. There is no scanning beam like on CRTs. You're seeing things.

If you're referring to me, I'm not alone. Others have reported similar things here with mouse movements in particular. That is where it seems to be the most noticeable.

LCDs definitely have a refresh rate though. All monitors must necessarily use one, regardless of what type of technology they're based on, because the video card still outputs pixels at a fixed rate. A higher refresh rate will cause the video card to put out more pixels every second. The question is what exactly the LCD does internally when the refresh rate is higher.

Besides, the DVI standard doesn't allow a higher data rate than 165 MHz, which amounts to 60 image updates per second, 60 Hz. (not MHz, mind.)

The total bandwidth usage depends on the resolution being used, not just the refresh rate. This is why most LCDs support 75hz at 1280x1024 but not at anything higher.

 

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: Retard
OK, so I just got a new 28" HansG monitor. User manuel is here http://america.hannsg.net/filectrl/HG281_UM_EN.pdf



I plug it in, its at 1920x1200 automatically, and it looks great, although I can tell the refresh rate is low because it hurting my eyes.

I go to adjust it--right click on desktop, click "adapter" tab, click on "list all modes", find the 1920x 1200 resolution, and to my suprise the highest refresh rate is only 60mhz (I'm used to 85mhz).

I want that monitor !
No way anyone could complain of eye strain with a monitor at 60Mhz !


tip: its hz, not Mhz.

 

[Peter]

Originally posted by: CP5670

LCD monitors don't "refresh" or even flicker. The backlight permanently lights the entire surface, all pixels are driven all the time. There is no scanning beam like on CRTs. You're seeing things.

If you're referring to me, I'm not alone. Others have reported similar things here with mouse movements in particular. That is where it seems to be the most noticeable.

What you're seeing there is the switching time of individual LCD pixels, which, in real life, is FAR slower than advertized. So if your mouse cursor is smearing or otherwise looking odd when moved, then all that would help is a faster panel. Talking to the same panel faster does not.

LCDs definitely have a refresh rate though. All monitors must necessarily use one, regardless of what type of technology they're based on, because the video card still outputs pixels at a fixed rate. A higher refresh rate will cause the video card to put out more pixels every second. The question is what exactly the LCD does internally when the refresh rate is higher.

... and here's where you're missing the point. There signal input rate of an LCD equals the maximum image update rate (obviously), but there is no need to "refresh" what's already been displayed, unlike the phosphorous layer in a CRT screen that is constantly being refreshed by the scanning beam. There is no refresh flicker on LCD screens, period.

Besides, the DVI standard doesn't allow a higher data rate than 165 MHz, which amounts to 60 image updates per second, 60 Hz. (not MHz, mind.)

The total bandwidth usage depends on the resolution being used, not just the refresh rate. This is why most LCDs support 75hz at 1280x1024 but not at anything higher.

We're talking 1920x1200 here, right?

 

[Retard]

Yeah, we are talking 1920x1200.

You know, when I play CivIV, it seems fine, no problems. But just on the window desktop, or using business programs (word, excel), it hurts my eyes.

It makes sense to me that refresh would be irrelevant on an LCD since the pixels are generally always "on" and there is nothing to refresh.

But then why do they even have the settings? They have 60hz, 75hz and slower refresh rates listed. As CP5670 indicated, maybe its video card working in combination with the monitor that is causing it?


Model---this monitor sure is sweet, apart from this "refresh rate" problem

 

[CP5670]

What you're seeing there is the switching time of individual LCD pixels, which, in real life, is FAR slower than advertized. So if your mouse cursor is smearing or otherwise looking odd when moved, then all that would help is a faster panel. Talking to the same panel faster does not.

Many LCDs today can exceed 16ms (i.e. 60hz) on certain color transitions, especially between black and white. 60hz won't matter on some color transitions but will limit the monitor on others.

I wouldn't call it smearing, more of a subtle stutter, which is just what you would expect to see when the framerate is too low. I noticed it immediately when I hooked up the LCD and initially didn't realize that the refresh rate had defaulted back to 60. It went away when I put it back to 75, so the refresh rate does seem to have some practical importance. I'm not sure if it's actually displaying the full 75fps, but it's doing something differently.

... and here's where you're missing the point. There signal input rate of an LCD equals the maximum image update rate (obviously), but there is no need to "refresh" what's already been displayed, unlike the phosphorous layer in a CRT screen that is constantly being refreshed by the scanning beam. There is no refresh flicker on LCD screens, period.

No, the "refresh rate" and "flickering" are two quite different things. The refresh rate that you select in Windows (which is what I'm talking about) tells the video card how fast to output pixels/frames. What the monitor does with that information is a different matter. It's still using a refresh rate because it's being fed in pixels at a fixed speed.

We're talking 1920x1200 here, right?

I guess so. I thought your post was addressed to me, and the monitor I use is on 1280x1024.

 

[Peter]

Originally posted by: Retard
Yeah, we are talking 1920x1200.

You know, when I play CivIV, it seems fine, no problems. But just on the window desktop, or using business programs (word, excel), it hurts my eyes.

It makes sense to me that refresh would be irrelevant on an LCD since the pixels are generally always "on" and there is nothing to refresh.

But then why do they even have the settings? They have 60hz, 75hz and slower refresh rates listed. As CP5670 indicated, maybe its video card working in combination with the monitor that is causing it?

The different frequency settings exist mostly for compatibility reasons, particularly when using analog input not DVI.

If your eyes hurt on the Windows desktop, we've had those complaints quite often at work too - and it turned out to be the brightness level. Particularly in broad daylight offices, people tend to set them way too bright. Tune the brightness down, way down. This helped the majority of people here.

Also, adjust the monitor height as low as you can, to avoid having to bend your neck upward. And sit back. Way back, far enough that you don't need head movement to look from left to right screen edge.

 

[postmortemIA]

60MHz? wow! my POS is refreshing only at 60Hz... imagine that slowness!

 

[DRavisher]

Nah he wrote 60 mhz, which is closer to 60 mHz (only one letter wrong, versus two for MHz). You're refreshing 1000 times as often!

All joking aside, there is probably no LCD display on the market today that actually supports more than 60 Hz refresh rate (see article at behardware: http://www.behardware.com/arti...end-of-afterglow.html). Those displays that can _recieve_ 75 Hz convert it to 60 Hz anyway (at least the vast majority do), so it seems you'd be better off just using 60 Hz.

 

[FireChicken]

I dont know of any monitors bigger than 19in that can do higher than 60hz at native resolutions, out of the box.

But You can always try setting up custom resolutions in your video control panel. ALTHOUGH THIS IS AT YOUR OWN RISK. I dont know what video card you have but in the nvidia control panel go to custom resolutions and input a refresh rate. The NV control panel lets you test the setting before letting you save it. I was experimenting with a few 22in models for example and the viewsonic vg2230 can to 65hz at 1680x1050 res. How hard this is on the monitor, I dont know but it can do it. You can try forcing 65 hz on your monitor but YMMV and I do not know what this will do to the life of your monitor. I doubt it will be able to go any higher though. This is AT YOUR OWN RISK.

 

[CP5670]

Originally posted by: DRavisher
Nah he wrote 60 mhz, which is closer to 60 mHz (only one letter wrong, versus two for MHz). You're refreshing 1000 times as often!

All joking aside, there is probably no LCD display on the market today that actually supports more than 60 Hz refresh rate (see article at behardware: http://www.behardware.com/arti...end-of-afterglow.html). Those displays that can _recieve_ 75 Hz convert it to 60 Hz anyway (at least the vast majority do), so it seems you'd be better off just using 60 Hz.

One of the VP930b revisions apparently does actually display the full 75fps. I think I remember xtknight saying something about that. I wonder if there are any other LCDs like it.

 

[FireChicken]

Im am not sure, but does This progam actually let you test whether or not your monitor can do a true 75hz? From what I remember, it displays 2 different, alternating images at the frequency you have set your monitor at. If your monitor is tossing out images you should see streaks or aberrations in the images.

 

[onlyCOpunk]

Be thankful, my display will only do 30Hz at 1920x1080. Can't really notice any "flickering" if it's there as I thought LCD's didn't do the whole flicker thing. But that's what I get for gaming on an HDTV that supports 1080i and not 1080p.