HELP - Building new Gaming Rig

lucas122478

Member
Mar 22, 2008
32
9
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I'm completely out of the loop, I haven't built anything since having a 6800GT, amd 3500, msi plat mobo. I don't even know where to begin now. Just looking for the sweet spot in price and performance. Around $1000.00 is my budget but will go higher.

1. 6600 or 8400?
2. Mobo?
3. 8800GT or 9800GX2?
4. PSU?
5. Case?
6. Cooling?
7. RAM? 2GB or 4GB?
8. Monitor?

Is it possible to connect the computer to a LCD or Plasma tv, with the same quality you would get from a monitor? As well as the surround sound? I want to build a rig, specifically to integrate with my Entertainment center. Are there video cards with HDMI now? Need the full scoop or if someone can point me in the right direction. I've read through the forums trying to catch up, but its just gave me a headache.

 

hnzw rui

Member
Mar 6, 2008
135
0
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1. Between the 2, E8400. With the scarcity and outrageous prices, though, E6750 is more bang for the back.
2. P35 is the budget overclocker's choice, at the moment. Not an option if you wanna go SLI. For Crossfire, I don't think I've seen a P35 board with two PCIe16 slots.
3. Are you willing to spend around half of your budget on a video card?
4. Get one that's energy-efficient. Modular, too. Finish your parts list first to figure out the wattage, etc, then select a PSU.
5. *loves her Antec P182* :)
6. A lot of decent and relatively quiet air coolers now. Thermalright Ultra 120 seems to be a favorite.
7. 2x1GB is usually fine for most people. I have 2x2GB because I plan on upgrading to 8GB when I got 64-bit.
8. 22 inchers are at pretty good price points now (~$300). Get one with fast response time. That's if you're not connecting to your TV. :p

Yes. Yes. Yes (while there are video cards with HDMI, most do it through a DVI to HDMI adapter).
 

JPB

Diamond Member
Jul 4, 2005
4,064
89
91
Originally posted by: lucas122478
I'm completely out of the loop, I haven't built anything since having a 6800GT, amd 3500, msi plat mobo. I don't even know where to begin now. Just looking for the sweet spot in price and performance. Around $1000.00 is my budget but will go higher.

1. 8400
2. Mobo?
3. 8800GT
4. PSU?
5. Case?
6. Cooling?
7. 4GB
8. Monitor?

That is the CPU I am going to go with. Finally upgrade from my single core 3500+. I am looking in the area of a evga 790i board or one from Asus.

 

lucas122478

Member
Mar 22, 2008
32
9
81
Can you put 3x 9800GX2 cards in a 790i ultra sli mobo? running at 16x for all three? So that would in theory be 6 video cards running in SLI?

I've blown my $1000 base cost out the window. i've decided to go with 9800GX2 for the video card , which company offers the lifetime warranty I can't remember.

Initial items to buy
============

  • 9800GX2 (Evga? PNY? XFX?) x1 $500-$650

    790i ULTRA SLI MOTHERBOARD (which one?)
    XFX MBN790IUL9 $349.99 (Newegg)
    EVGA 132-CK-NF79-A1 $357.47 (Newegg)

    DDR3-1600 2GB Kit $239.00 - $499.99 (Which Company you guys suggest?)

    CORE 2 DUO E8400 $289.99
So far at $1500, more than I wanted to spend, but I don't want to upgrade my computer every few months also. Hopefully with this, I can just sit back for another 4 years. If not, can add more juice with options of 3x SLI, DDR3 mem will get cheaper over time, and can upgrade it to faster, better, and more RAM later.

That leaves a CASE, PSU, and Cooling.

Cooling: Thermalright Ultra-120 Extreme with Push pull set up using Noctua NH-U12 Fans? Or some other form of cooling suggested?

CASE: P182 ? Any other suggested case guys?

PSU: If I want to have the options of having 3 SLI 9800GX2's, what kind of juice are we talking about? And what PSU do you guys suggest?


 

hnzw rui

Member
Mar 6, 2008
135
0
0
Pretty sure XFX offers lifetime warranty as long as you register the card. $290 is a *lot* for the E8400. Not really sure how much power one 9800GX2 consumes, let alone three...
 

blanketyblank

Golden Member
Jan 23, 2007
1,149
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0
1. Depending on how much of an overclocker you are I'd go with the q6600 since you can find it cheaper and in stock than the 8400 now adays. It's a quad core so a few games like Supreme Commander are actually starting to use th extra cores. It's not hard to get the Q6600 to 3.0 ghz either and with a good mobo and cooling you can probably do 3.5. The e8400 is stock at 3 and I've heard can go to 4+ depending on the chip. Voltage with the new 45 nm chips is scary though despite the temps.
In reality most games aren't going to be limited by the cpu so almost any intel core 2 or quad will do. (200)

2. For the mobo if you ever want to get a 9800gx2 you will need an nvidia based board. Supposedly since it's basically 2 8800s stuck together you need to enable SLI, and thus intel based boards will crash. 680i boards are a good price now but I don't think they support penryns (which is partially why I suggest the Q6600). (140)

3. I sorta think the 9800 GX2 is worth it since it's basically 2 8800GTS cards stuck together(250 x 2 = 500), but you should probably wait till it drops in price a bit more. You CAN NOT do triple SLI with these boards only quad SLI. Supposedly 9800 GTX and 8800GTX/Ultras are the only triple boards. Thus 680i mobo works well if you decide to do one of these.
(500)

4. PSU varies depending on the other components, but a 500 watt earthwatt will probably be enough and is pretty cheap. The newer G92s are pretty energy efficient and 500 watts is enough for a GTX so it should just be enough for a GX2. (40)

5. I've got a p180 which works well for me. It was on sale for about 50 after rebate. Ultimately just get whatever fits the video card which should be most everything since the new ones are shorter unlike the GTX. Other considerations are quietness and coolness. (50)

6. I got a Tuniq Tower for 40 which works well and has a rheostat and fan. Remember that if you go with an ultra it maybe slightly cooler, but the fan costs extra. (40)

7. 2 Gb is enough and you can always get another 2Gbs later if your mobo has 4 slots. I hate vista 64 bit anyways so I prefer to keep 2. (40)

8. Monitor. If you have a TV that's perfect since you can save the monitor budget for the 9800GX2. It is ONLY nvidia card with HDMI output currently (without an adapter).

total = 970 give or take a little. I'd probably stretch my budget a little for the PSU and or case especially if you wanted a second 9800, but that should be enough for some pretty nice stuff. Need another 130 for a HD and DVDRW though for a complete system and maybe keyboard/mouse.
btw the 3 companies offering lifetime warranties are: EVGA, XFX, and BFG.
 

QuixoticOne

Golden Member
Nov 4, 2005
1,855
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CPU: If you can get the Q6600 for $199-$230 or so, I'd say that beats an E8400 for $199 (roughly equal money) or an Q9450 for $340 (way more money).
6600's are good for general gaming, but you really need more CPU if you're going to be spending the big bucks on a 9800GX2!

Mobo: hard to say.. I'd look at a good ASUS P35 or X38 chipset one that's well reputed for overclocking and compatibility with the new 45nm CPUs if you intend to get an E8400 or Q9xxx CPU.
For a 65nm older CPU like the E6600, Q6600, etc. you can look for something like the P5K-E or P5K-Deluxe or GA-P35-DS3 / GA-P35-DS3L or whatever is similar in reputation / quality / cost / features.

Video card: eh I'd get an 8800GT or 9600GT, enjoy playing stuff for like 14 months, then buy a newer model that will be a lot cheaper than the 9800GX2 and a lot more powerful too. Are there really that many things you really WANT to play that you just CAN'T enjoy playing on an 8800GT or 9600GT? Sure they lag some in say Crysis at beyond 1024x768 but is it really worth $250 extra just to play like 2-3 games at somewhat better settings? Because the 8800GT will be more than satisfactory with 98% of the current games out there. Or consider waiting for the 9800GT / 9800GTX in a few weeks maybe. You can always spend $500 or whatever on the top of the line now, but if you wait 6 months, you're pretty guaranteed to be able to pay half that for a card that is half the size and the same performance.

PSU I'd look for a well reputed one on sale like maybe the Antec Earthwatts 550 or Antec TruePower Trio-650 or a good Corsair 620W or any number of others. There are better higher performance / wattage models than those two Antecs, but then again you pretty often see the Antecs on sale for like $40-$65 at buy.com / outpost.com / frys / whatever...and they're decent in quality/reputation, so for a low price it's a good deal. Nothing wrong with about eight or so other good models out there either, but read the unbiased reviews as to their ability to work hard / hot at max load, whether they have good low voltage ripple under all load conditions, good over-voltage / over-current protection that actually WORKS (a lot DON'T), etc. Also find one that is SLI certified if you're going to mess with 9800GX2 or anything like that.

Case: +1 for the ANTEC P180B when it's on sale.. great overall value for like $40-$80 with no PSU included... a little small/cramped, but not too bad without too many hard drives installed and only one big graphics card.

Case: If you want something integrated with PSU look for a sale on something like the Antec Sonata III or whatever... decent.. there are many worse cases, and several better ones, but not often do you see a much better one on sale for a similar price to what you occasionally see the Sonata on sale for.

Cooling: The Thermalright Ultra Extreme 120 has a great reputation, though there are some other good ones too that are newer and maybe a bit cheaper.. You really don't need anything with better cooling power than this level for an E8400 or Q9450 or Q6600 to get a decent overclock. And this is already pretty large physically and heavy for my liking, so unless someone can tell you there's something that weighs less, costs less, performs better, I'd get it, so I suggest the Thermalright Ultra Extreme 120 with a Yate-Loon D12SL low speed (43CFM I think) 120mm fan (check the fan out at jab-tech.com).
http://www.madshrimps.be/?acti...tpage=3258&articID=680
http://www.madshrimps.be/?action=getarticle&articID=633
http://www.xtremesystems.org/f...howthread.php?t=106971
http://www.tomshardware.com/20...pu_cooler_charts_2008/

Cooler & Fan you might want:
http://jab-tech.com/Thermalright-Ultra-120-eXtreme-pr-3762.html
http://jab-tech.com/YATE-LOON-120mm-Case-Fan-D12SL-12-pr-3009.html


Memory: 2GB?! Good heavens, with today's price and performance / quality / value of DDR2 RAM the question is 4GB or 8GB.

For clocks up to around 400-450 this seems like a very very decent deal at the moment:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820220269
Patriot Extreme Performance 4GB(2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model PDC24G6400LLK - Retail
* Cas Latency: 4
* Features: Patriot Aluminum Bladed Heat Shield Technology to improve module stability RoHS Compliant EPP Ready
* Heat Spreader: Yes
* Timing: 4-4-4-12
* Model #: PDC24G6400LLK
* Item #: N82E16820220269
Price after rebate(s):$77.99

For clocks up around 500Mhz - 525MHz I'd look at this or similar:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820231145
G.SKILL 4GB(2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1000 (PC2 8000) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F2-8000CL5D-4GBPQ - Retail
* Cas Latency: 5
* Heat Spreader: Yes
* Timing: 5-5-5-15
* Voltage: 2.0V - 2.1V
* Model #: F2-8000CL5D-4GBPQ
* Item #: N82E16820231145
Your Price:$99.99


Originally posted by: lucas122478
I'm completely out of the loop, I haven't built anything since having a 6800GT, amd 3500, msi plat mobo. I don't even know where to begin now. Just looking for the sweet spot in price and performance. Around $1000.00 is my budget but will go higher.

1. 6600 or 8400?
2. Mobo?
3. 8800GT or 9800GX2?
4. PSU?
5. Case?
6. Cooling?
7. RAM? 2GB or 4GB?
8. Monitor?

Is it possible to connect the computer to a LCD or Plasma tv, with the same quality you would get from a monitor? As well as the surround sound? I want to build a rig, specifically to integrate with my Entertainment center. Are there video cards with HDMI now? Need the full scoop or if someone can point me in the right direction. I've read through the forums trying to catch up, but its just gave me a headache.

 

TheJian

Senior member
Oct 2, 2007
220
0
0
Get a Xeon 3110 for $230 at excaliberpc.com. It's the same chip performance wise. Why pay more? You don't need an SLI motherboard for that card either. It's two cards on one PCB. No need for Nvidia chipset unless you just want one. Why do people keep quoting E8400's ridiculous price when E3110 is out there?

IF they are out above, try allstarshop.com

Also I'd get a Gigabyte P35/38 board (probably the EP35-DS3R $125 newegg). Just pick the one that meets your needs. I don't see why you need SLI if you're buying a 2-n-1 card. You also DO NOT need nvidia chipset. INTEL P35 will work fine for 9800 GX2.
http://www.tweaktown.com/artic..._and_tested/index.html

When 2 cards are supplied on 1 PCB SLI becomes unnecessary.

DDR3 is pointless (for a few %?). Get 4 GB DDR2 for $100 and put great latency on it making DDR3 almost completely pointless.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820220299
$105 after rebate. Runs 1066 @ 5/5/5/15 easy at this speed. I'd tell you buy cheaper ram but you seem to like high prices stuff...LOL. Note the 4GB vs your 2GB for about 1/3 price (looking at your price range). DOUBLE RAM. Heck at that price you can get 8GB and KILL that DDR3 in a lot of stuff because Vista is just a pig on 2GB. Not that I'd buy anything but XP64, or maybe XP32 right now (but on 32 you won't see the full 4GB, and 8gb is a joke on 32bit os', get XP64!).

With all the extra money you just saved by an Arctic Freezer Pro 7 $26 at newegg. OR yeah the thermalright is obviously best with noctua. IF your budget is $1000 how'd we get to $1500 so fast with parts that don't change much for your performance?

Monitor Acer AL2223Wd 22in $245 (includes shipping, newegg) 562 reviews 5egg avg. My sister owns one and loves it. Last years AL2216WBD 22 has 914 reviews and customer 2x award again 5eggs but new one is better. My nephew games on it all day. No complaints, and he's a complainer. :)

A Hiper HPU-5B680 ($129 newegg) was anands recent 600-680w winner. 1.57% on the 12v lead! More than enough power for your needs. Or just buy PC Power and Cooling 750 Silencer for $150.

Under $1500. :)

oops you need a case in there and mouse keyboard.

You could save on the PSU and Enermax 465 would be fine for $90 (newegg). That price cut would get you a nice CASE and still be round $1500. With a 3ghz quad and the 9800GX2 Toms only hit 320watts total. Easy on this cheaper psu.
http://www.tomshardware.com/20..._gx2_review/index.html
 

TheJian

Senior member
Oct 2, 2007
220
0
0
Agree with most of QuixoticOne's post. Especially the video card parts. I was just trying to keep your 9800 GX2. But yeah, I think it's rather pointless for anything 22in under. We're only talking 1680x1050 in that case and 8800GT OC would be great in 95% of the games. I'm running it on a Dell 24in! Very quiet PC.

Sonata is great with a decent PSU isntalled already. I've sold many. Loved the paint jobs. Like a car finish.

Weight of the thermalright was why I picked arctic freezer pro 7. Far less weight and adequately cools for 3.6ghz-4ghz overclocks depending on chip. Over that and you might have heat issues without the thermalright.

Yes, 2GB crazy. Why would you do that to yourself....LOL.
 

blanketyblank

Golden Member
Jan 23, 2007
1,149
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0
It might be different now with new drivers, but I saw in an early review that the reviewer had problems running the 9800 gx2 on an intel based board because he needed to enable SLI. I can't tell if things have changed or not since most reviews I've seen either use an nvidia based board or an x48 which I believe has an nvidia chip to do SLI.

Regardless a 680i will be great down the line if you ever decide to do quad SLI since anything intel besides the x48 won't support it. As for the 780i/790i you can't use the third card slot anyways plus you'll have to pay more for DDR3 RAM.
 

TheJian

Senior member
Oct 2, 2007
220
0
0
Originally posted by: blanketyblank
It might be different now with new drivers, but I saw in an early review that the reviewer had problems running the 9800 gx2 on an intel based board because he needed to enable SLI. I can't tell if things have changed or not since most reviews I've seen either use an nvidia based board or an x48 which I believe has an nvidia chip to do SLI.

Regardless a 680i will be great down the line if you ever decide to do quad SLI since anything intel besides the x48 won't support it. As for the 780i/790i you can't use the third card slot anyways plus you'll have to pay more for DDR3 RAM.

Yeah, I thought the drivers pulled this off, and the fact that it's one card. I was under the impression the whole point is SLI without needing any board related stuff to get it. Same with AMD, we don't have to muck around with it because they did it for us by making it one card. But don't quote me :). We'll have to confirm this.

Anyone with links chime in please.
 

lucas122478

Member
Mar 22, 2008
32
9
81
Guess, what I'm really looking at guys, is so i'm future proofing, myself. I know thats impossible in the desktop environment. But at least for the next few years. I'm assuming for at least the next few years, DDR3 will become the norm, and DDR2 will be a thing o the past. Hence, Why i want to go with a DDR3 board, so I have that option to upgrade to faster DDR3 over the course of the next few years.

790i board, which is both crossfire and SLI capable corret? So that I have the option of using either of those abilities as they further progress these over the next few years. Also with having 3x SLI slots, if speed of the neXt Gen Cards isn't "too" significant, then I have the option of adding more cards into the board from say the 9800 series, for the same costs or cheaper with the almost same speeds, rather than buying a 10800, 11800 series. See what I mean?

Only question then when it comes to this, Will Intel be using the same socket for the next few years? Or does anyone know? When I last upgraded It was an AGP Card, and 989 socket? i think. Then here came SLI, and AM2 my board then was useless for future upgrading. If I had of waited a few months, I could still be using that architecture today.


So if I go with today's current Gen hardware. Will I be able to stay consistent in further upgrading later into the future with this tech? If I get a Q6600, a year from now If I want an 8-core processor will it still work with the Motherboard. (Of course if the manufacterer) supports it with flashing the bios. The same with DDR3, prices will decline and if I go with 1600 now, couple years down the road, I can pop some 3200's rather than having to buy a DDR3 capable motherboard.

Sure it's cheaper right now for DDR2, 680 boards. Maybe my reasoning is warped. It's not that I want the "Most" expensive, its i want to be able to rely on the architecture for the next few years, understand it and upgrade easily. In my OP, I stated I am completely lost. The tech has changed considerably over the past few years from the last architecture that I knew. Went from AGP to PCI-X 1,4,8,16 PATA HD to SATA 1,2,3 etc.

So, What can we expect over the next 2-4 years? If I build this new rig now, using either a Q6600 or E8400, DDR3 Memory, 790i board, 9800GX2. Will I be disappointed, in investing in this current technology within 6 months like I was with my old rig? Or can we expect the a little jumps here and there over the next few years? I don't want to build a system that within 1 year, I could have a 300% gain in speed and processing if I had of waited. See where i'm getting at?

Anyone have a good place to go to look at the future roadmaps of technology? Like where CPU's, Memory, and video cards are going over the next few years? I've read Anandtech and Tom's off and on for years, but it seems more often than not, that I see something as it's being reviewed or released, and not seeing "what's to come" Are companies tight lipped on where they are going in the foreseeable future? If anyone has links where I can read up, the roadmaps if there are any for 2009 in terms of CPU's, Memory, and the video card industry, I'd appreciate it.

 

blanketyblank

Golden Member
Jan 23, 2007
1,149
0
0
I don't think the 790 or x48 is a good investment in future proofing at this point even if it does have support for ddr3. From what I've read the answer the next line of chips from intel (nehalem) will be on a different socket( LGA 1366? vs. 775)so the boards won't be able to support them physically.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nehalem_(CPU_architecture)

Thus in my opinion the best way to future proof yourself is to go cheaper so you can use the money you saved for a new motherboard down the line. If you go with a top of the line mobo at this point you will be limited to the current penryn chip. I doubt even with the top of the line chip you will see any benefit to running ddr3 besides the slightly cheaper electric costs.

The video card is however another story. 790i boards do have improved SLI so it maybe worth it to you to get that extra 10% speed increase over running SLI in a 780i or older board. Regardless though it's still probably more cost effective to just sell your old video card and get the new one if it is really so much better. The GX2 is limited to 2 cards running quad SLI so you cannot slap in another one even if you have a third slot.

I couldn't find the original review since there are so many 9800 gx2 reviews now, but here's a forum where people complained about it not working on x38s with beta drivers.
http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?p=712245
I'm sure the new drivers have probably fixed things by now though since the card should have an internal SLI chip so it's probably not an issue.
 

TheJian

Senior member
Oct 2, 2007
220
0
0
Regarding DDR3 - Who cares if it doesn't perform more than a few percent faster and you're maxing your board out with 8GB for less money? Max your board on DDR2 with good timing memory and pocket the change for something else. At DDR2's price it's a phenomenal purchase for 8GB (or even 4GB). Before DDR2 is worthless you'll have to change cpu sockets for sure. DDR3 was over hyped memory. Even if it was just 50% more cost I'd still avoid it. You only get 5% roughly. I can put that extra $150 in a backup HD (250GB for $60) and another $90 in my vidcard. Making the system maybe 50-100% faster and I have 4GB vs 2GB DDR3. It's just not economically smart.

Let's do some math here:
4GB newegg DDR3 1333 (slowest they sell) is $310.
4GB newegg DDR2 800 (tons for cas5 1.8v $80 avg) $80.
So $230 premium.
"At the same speed and timings DDR2 and DDR3 perform virtually the same in gaming on the P35, and they are faster than DDR2 on the P965. DDR3 at the same timings may have a very slight performance advantage over DDR2 on the same platform, but it is too early to reach that conclusion. The results for DDR3 at 1067 and 1333 timings do make us look forward to DDR3 at faster memory timings. It is good now, and with better timings DDR3 will likely be great at these higher speeds."

From:http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.aspx?i=2989&p=7
NO FASTER at 1333. So the memory I've quoted, cheapest you can get is not even faster. Note for some reason in recent benchmarks of DDR3 high speed Anandtech is afraid to benchmark DDR2 with similar CPU speeds with a proper divider to keep DDR2 in the game. Memory makers paying them off to not compare say DDR2 @fast timings 800mhz with a 3.6ghz overlock vs there recent 3.5ghz speeds they came up with on DDR3? I could think for a while and get closer clocks but they refuse to test DDR2 any more. Claiming DDR3 better. Yeah because you're clocking the cpu at 3.5ghz to reach max mem speed on the DDR3. Change the ratios to get a DDR2 rig near that same 3.5ghz and you fine it's a tie (probably even victory for DDR2.). It won at 1066 2.66ghz why not OC the chip and change the ration to get near the same 3.5ghz with DDR3?

ROFL, I just found someone with the balls to do it:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articl...display/ddr3-1800.html
DDR3 1800mhz vs good old DDR2...HAHAHA 3.6ghz in all cases. Am I seeing a 1% victory avg in everything? OK DDR3 wins, but by decimal points...ROFL. 180fps to 175fps is not worth $400 difference from fast DDR2. Most of the benchmarks come out to decimal differences! They used a quadcore too! All running at 3.6ghz. DDR3 1800 vs DDR2 1125. Keep your $400, and spend it somewhere else. How about double ram for $100 (so 8GB instead of 4GB DDR3), an extra 500GB drive ($100), remove the thermalright heastink and instead buy $250 Koolance Water cooling with 300watt heatsink...ROFL. With this setup you couldn't even SEE DDR3 in your rearview mirror...LOL
 

lucas122478

Member
Mar 22, 2008
32
9
81
Yeah I just the article on leaked Nehalem at engadget, It will be a different socket. Thus starting all over in a different board, which will take time to mature. I really appreciate all the help and patience with me guys. Starting back from the top.

My gaming habits, really aren't into shooters like Crysis. 90% of my gaming is with Strat's, SIMS, and RPGS: Black & White 2, Age of Empires 2/3, Heroes of Might and Magic V, Neverwinter nights 2, Civ IV, Sim City, Starcraft, Diablo, WoW (retired), etc...

So my gaming habits will be around genre's of this type. My old PC the 6800GT etc, that PC is Dead. Completely. I was out of town, and i came home it didn't work anymore. Vid Card was ruined, mobo, etc. I chunked the parts on ebay not to long ago. I've been using my E1705 laptop, which unfornuately has an onboard 945gm graphics *ugh* Yet it did play HoMaM IV, BW2, WOW, etc

The games that I will be playing on the new rig will be Supreme Commander (REALLY wanna play this) and Starcraft II whenever Blizzards releases that (REALLY REALLY CANT WAIT FOR THAT) For gaming I've been just playin with my XBOX 360, and PS3. But I'm yearning to go back to Computer Gaming again. When I would play Age of Empires III on LAN with my roommate on my laptop, whenever we swarmed each other, the laptop would completely fart out. So i'm going to retire this laptop obviously, to strictly just surfing and give it to the wife.

So with all this in mind, dropping the bar a bit on what I should get. Let's say go back to the best for the buck scenario then. I still want to stick with the e8400, there's not much a difference between it and the Q6600 from what I can see. Except for the fact the e8400 is a 45nm so that means it runs cooler than a 65nm correct? Also it uses less electricity, someone stated $5 less a month in electrical costs itself by going the the e8400 instead of the Q6600? Run benchmarks between the Q6600 and the E8400 there wasn't that much a difference in Supreme Commander? So, I'm still leaning towards the E8400.

Now as for a video card, review of the 9800x2 at toms shows supreme commander at 2560x1600 AA4+AF8X running on the Gx2 at 55.4fps, 3870X2 at 39.1fps, and 8800ultra at 29.7 9800x2 taking the crown. I think I still want to stick with a 9800x2, by the time I build this I'm sure the problems with its driver's will be fixed by then, if not already fixed now.

That leaves me next to Memory. Some of you guys said DDR-800, some DDR-1000. Doing just a quick look on pricewatch. 4GB kit of DDR2-800 lists at 65.98, 4GB for DDR2-1000 lists at $153 and 4GB of DDR2-1066 lists at $159.99 Is there really that much of a difference between DDR2-800 and DDR2-1066? Prices between 1000 and 1066 are ignificant so I will refer to just the 800 vs 1066. What kind of improvement will I see between 800 and 1066? Go with the 800 $66 route? and go for 8GB at $132 or go with 4GB of 1066 at $160?

Then there's the Motherboard? There's so many choices in motherboards what in the world to pick? I'm definately going to get the E8400 and 9800x2, so? P35 board? X38 board? 600i series? which one? lol.

Then there's the PSU. 338 watts was what I think the 9800 x2 card maxed out on in tests, so let's say 400w dedicated just for it. benchmarks on the E8400 showed it idled at 119w, and load was 160w - so let's say 200w for it. We're already up to 600w or 498W real wattage on just these two alone! So what can I expect to add for that with say: Each hard drive, each 2gb stick of ram, add-on drives (Cd, DVD, Blu-ray), fans, etc. Could I get away with a 600w or should I go for at least 800w-1000w ? Which companies nowadays make quality PSU's?.......One person earlier said go with Modular, years back when Modular's first start surfening people said avoid them because of power leakage...is that still a problem?

Air, Water or Peltier? I've avoided water in the past because of the fear of goofin' it up, So what's the story now? Also while back, I read something about 3M having some kind of liquid material that you could actually SUBMERGE electrical equipment into...I don't remember what the stuff was called, it was non-conductive (obviously) anyone done this yet with computers?

Looking at Microcenter on most of this MWave for the 9800GX2 you can get and other sites:

Corsair XMS2 4GB PC-6400 DDR2 Memory Kit for $79.99 (after rebate) $160 for 8GB
OCZ 4GB PC-6400 DDR2 Memory Kit for $69.99 (after rebate) $140 for 8GB
Intel E8400 CPU $199.99
PNY XLR8 Geforce 9800 GX2 1GB DDR3 PCI EPRESS 2.0 $529.84
Antec Performance One P182 ATX Tower $69.99
Thermalright Ultra-120 Extreme CPU cooler $62.90 or water cooling peltier? etc?

That leaves me undecided on PSU, Motherboard, and What form of Cooling to use? Also what's the best Hard drive to go with nowadays? I've read that the new gen hard drives are about as good as Raptors So what hard drive would you guys pick? I prefer Seagate, I BIG fat NO, on maxtor, I had 2 of 3 of them to brick out on me.

With this line-up so far i'm looking at $940 (Memory, processor, chassis, video card)
Not counting Mobo, PSU, Cooling method, Hard drive.




 

TheJian

Senior member
Oct 2, 2007
220
0
0
http://www.tomshardware.com/20...gx2_review/page14.html
With Quadcore still only 340w and thats an old QX6800 which is not even 45nm. It would drop with E8400. That 340 watts was for the whole system, not the card. Nvidia says you only need a 580w, toms considers that overkill.

Gave the board earlier.
8GB, your choices are fine. You only get one rebate so buy one of each and on separate invoices just in case. 4gb on each invoice ordered separately. :)

Your chip will crap out before these do probably with proper ratios it's a given.

Can you actually BUY that cpu instock? That's a mighty good price with all on pricewatch being $300.

Only Seagate drives in my mind. I like 5yr warranty period. So does the rest of the world, that's why their #1 in sales, profits etc. The rest should take note. We want 5yr! Pick any size.

PC power and cooling Silencer 750. Yeah overkill but $150 and you have no fear a problem is because of your PSU. Or the 610 for cheaper. They're the best. $108 amazon, $150 for 750w.

I take it you have a monitor (maybe I missed it), and before $1500 was OK. Buy a Koolance with 300block. $250. Forget the huge thermalright stressing the board. I love it, but if money wasn't an object why not water :) If that bugs you then thermalright is great. less weight with good OCing? Try Freezer 7 pro $26 newegg.



 

blanketyblank

Golden Member
Jan 23, 2007
1,149
0
0
Well if Q6600 and E8400 are the same price than go ahead with the 8400 though I think $5 a month is a bit high for a cost saving unless you are overclocking. They both have the same power rating from Intel and the new g0s have pretty low voltage requirements. I'd say less than a dollar savings is more likely. Keep in mind though that penryn boards are more limited so it's harder to cheap out on the motherboard.

As for the motherboard I'd suggest an nvidia chip if you are thinking of ever going sli. p35s are great for overclocking the cpu from what I hear, but for real world purposes your games will be gpu limited unless you play on low resolutions. I'd suggest a 680i because of this since the x48s are new and too pricy. Also I don't think there are any x48s or 790s that support ddr2 at the moment. If you are content with just a single gpu though abit p35-e is cheap at about 70 or so and has good OC results.

Memory speed will depend heavily on whether or not you will be overclocking. There is only a small performance benefit to running your ram at 1066 vs. 533 without overclocking the cpu. The benefit of 1066 memory over the 800 is it is tested to work higher and thus guaranteed to give you a good overclock (up to 533 mhz). If you can get good ddr2 800 you can achieve the same result. Do consider that the e8400 runs at 1333 so with ddr2 800 you are only guaranteed to 67 mhz to OC with. With an older core 2 chip you would have 134 mhz with the same memory. This is one reason why you might want to spring for the faster memory for the e8400.

There are certain disadvantages to 4gbs in 2gb sticks compared to 2 gbs in 1 gb sticks in that the subtimings need to be set higher and you have to use a 64 bit OS to utilize all 4 gbs.

What tests were you referring to for the 9800? Usually those ratings are for the whole computer since they can't test the cards individually. You do want a psu that has a higher wattage than 400 though unless it's a really efficient supply. 600 watts will probably be more than enough if it's a good power supply. If you are planning on quad sli though you probably do want something a bit higher.

 

TheJian

Senior member
Oct 2, 2007
220
0
0
Since he's going DDR2, and looking P35 SLI isn't happening. Besides he shouldn't need a graphics card until the next X2 type card comes out that rocks. I'd say 2 generations away before he thinks he's slow if even then. I mean this card makes a 24in monitor very happy in ANY game at 1900x1200. That shouldn't change anytime soon.

Why would anyone buy 2GB today with 4GB for $65-80?

GPU limited with an 9800 GX2 unless you play low res?
http://www.tomshardware.com/20..._gx2_review/page5.html
"Finally, we only used two resolutions: 1920x1200, which is a typical resolution for 24-26" displays, and of course, 2560x1600, which is a typical resolution for 30" displays, such as the Samsung 3054T, which we used for our tests. We believe those are the only two resolutions these kinds of cards are meant to play at. Below that (or up to 22"), investing so much in a powerful 3D card to get smooth rendering for most of today's games is useless, as we saw in our Radeon HD 3870 X2 review"

You smoking crack? :D Even crisis runs 42fps at 1900x1200. The rest of the games pretty much hit awesome frame rates except Flight sim x, but that sucks on everything at these resolutions...LOL. Seems cpu limited in that game even on their quad. Every other game is 60fps+ roughly.
 

lucas122478

Member
Mar 22, 2008
32
9
81

Okay thanks for the assistance guys. I'll be checking Fry's and Microcenter later on in the week, when I'm on that side of town in ATL, running my errands. Probably will just pick up the case, and if they have the 8400 in stock. If they have a good bit in stock, I'll let you guys know if you're interested. One of my routes every week drives me right by Microcenter.

As for a monitor I have one, but I want to connect this PC to my new tv, *which I haven't bought yet* I'm looking at getting a very large lumpsum of money in the next month both between The IRS and my company (internal pay dispute or OT for the past year) Looking at around $30k, between both the IRS and my company. I'm looking at getting a Sony 52" XBR4 120hz LCD, new surround sound, and building this computer. Paying off some old loans, and then investing the rest. That's if the wife don't talk me into a new washer and dryer. What's worng with hand washing clothes anyway? :p That's if I can expect the same quality on a LCD as I would a monitor? If not then yes, I'll need a new monitor, considering the one I have now is a 19" and 4 years old.
 

blanketyblank

Golden Member
Jan 23, 2007
1,149
0
0
Well at 1600 x 1200 at very high in Crysis you do get 42 fps vs 26 with quad SLI.
Granted they were using a new quadcore at 4 Ghz, but assuming some overclocking the CPU should still not be the bottleneck. At higher resolutions like 1920 x 1200 it is even more likely that the GPU would affect the frames while the CPU would not.
http://www.tweaktown.com/artic...arks_crysis/index.html
Thus I think SLI is a nice option to have considering you will actually see a performance difference in games vs. a bump up in cpu.
Whe knows new games could be even worse than Crysis...