Help a fellow atot member out with becoming more adequite at reading and talking

[iLEktron]

Hello to all,
I have created this thread in order to ask you for help. Ever since I emigrated to USA 6 years ago I struggle to become proficient at speaking fluently in English. I admire when someone has a huge ass vocabulary set and become instantly hooked on the conversation. But mostly its frustrating when I try to express myself. Now don't laugh but I get very excited when I new video of anonymous comes out, the speech is just breath taking, it lures you in.

Some background about me, 19 years old, went to community college for 1 semester and pretty much flunked everything because I had to go to work in the last month and pay off my debt. Going back in the fall of 2012. All my friends are immigrants from central europe. we all went to the same ESL classes in high school and such. They consider me to be the open minded one, the one who always tries to be the best at everything.

Now if i may ask for your help, my esl teacher always told me that if I want speak, write correctly I have to read BOOKS. so if you could point out some of the best books that will be a good example to follow, be interesting and what not . I don't want to waste my time, which is why I'm asking you. Perhaps classics I need to know about, books that have good story line with excellent writing.

Now that you read my thread you should get an idea why I'm doing this, my sentences are straight forward, plain, don't flow like their suppose to.

And believe it or not I went through high school without reading Shakespeare so I should probably start with that. Thanks friends hope you can help me out.

 

[DesiPower]

Watch English movies and TV programs, something on topics that sparks your interest. West Wing, Frasier, startrek whatever...

 

[SociallyChallenged]

If you want to become better at reading and talking, books are a terrible place to start. Most times, writers try to sounds smart and be original so they don't write how most people communicate. Honestly, I'd say if you want to get better at reading, read things like the newspaper and magazines. Those tend to be written more like conversations. If you want to get better at talking, chat with people. Do it online, do it in person. You get better by doing something by doing that exact thing over and over again.

 

[tynopik]

And believe it or not I went through high school without reading Shakespeare so I should probably start with that. Thanks friends hope you can help me out.

No, probably too hard and quite different from contemporary English.

Most people's vocab is set in childhood.

What do they read in childhood? Kids books.

Lots of great juvenile/YA books out there.

Percy Jackson
Ranger's Apprentice
Hardy Boys
Harry Potter
Redwall

http://blog.schoollibraryjournal.co...4/13/the-top-100-childrens-novels-poll-1-100/

Reading those will also help with a lot of shared culture

 

[ThatsABigOne]

Zdarova? Zdravo? which one?

 

[iLEktron]

No, probably too hard and quite different from contemporary English.

Most people's vocab is set in childhood.

What do they read in childhood? Kids books.

Lots of great juvenile/YA books out there.

Percy Jackson
Ranger's Apprentice
Hardy Boys
Harry Potter
Redwall

http://blog.schoollibraryjournal.co...4/13/the-top-100-childrens-novels-poll-1-100/

Reading those will also help with a lot of shared culture

I find this to be quite helpful. See the problem with me was that I left my country when I was 13. So I missed all the classics. Its been hard to catch up especially when I was just learning english.

I'm really hooked on Movies, My collection is huge. I have to admit though on Big bang theory, sheldon is my freaking idol, watched from a to z. also that 70's show, burn notice, homeland, Cheers, frasier etc.

Zdarova? Zdravo? which one?

Na Zdrowie. Or as my lithuanian friends say Į sveikatą

 

[0roo0roo]

Speech is not really improved through reading, generating content is different from passive activity like reading. you just have to do it. reading only gives you context.

 

[tynopik]

there is also the recent multi-author 39 Clues series and The Hunger Games

 

[ussfletcher]

I find this to be quite helpful. See the problem with me was that I left my country when I was 13. So I missed all the classics. Its been hard to catch up especially when I was just learning english.

I'm really hooked on Movies, My collection is huge. I have to admit though on Big bang theory, sheldon is my freaking idol, watched from a to z. also that 70's show, burn notice, homeland, Cheers, frasier etc.





Na Zdrowie. Or as my lithuanian friends say Į sveikatą

Hmm, you could try forming sentences as Sheldon would. Maybe try repeating what he says to get the proper sentence structure down.

 

[paperfist]

Do you just associate with your friends from Europe and if so do they just speak that language?

 

[PowerEngineer]

OP, I salute you!

I have been completely frustrated in my efforts to learn a foreign language. I am in awe of all those people who have mastered English after being raised to think and communiacte a different language. I don't know how you do it!

I agree that reading books can be a good way to expand your vocabulary, although it obviously doesn't help with pronunciation. I'm thinking you'll be better off reading comtemporary novels because their content will reflect the vocabulary and connotations in current use. Newspaper and magazine articles (hardcopy and internet) might also help.

Good luck!

 

[iLEktron]

Do you just associate with your friends from Europe and if so do they just speak that language?

my friends are mostly from Europe but we speak English with each other because of so many nationalities. I do have a lot of American born friends who I regularly hangout with. My community college which I attended prides itself on the fact that its the one of the most diverse student body.

OP, I salute you!

I have been completely frustrated in my efforts to learn a foreign language. I am in awe of all those people who have mastered English after being raised to think and communiacte a different language. I don't know how you do it!

I agree that reading books can be a good way to expand your vocabulary, although it obviously doesn't help with pronunciation. I'm thinking you'll be better off reading comtemporary novels because their content will reflect the vocabulary and connotations in current use. Newspaper and magazine articles (hardcopy and internet) might also help.

Good luck!

Thank you!! It does help if u come here young, as soon as I get over this problem of mine I'm diving into Lithuanian language.


Thanks for all responses, its time to dive into research and study mode.

 

[lxskllr]

Try reading essays, and speeches, and then recreate them by speaking out loud yourself. Record yourself reading the speeches, and tweak your presentation to clean up the English, and add proper feeling. It would be useful to have a native speaker critique your delivery. You get proficiency and confidence by doing, more than "learning".

 

[Madwand1]

Now if i may ask for your help, my esl teacher always told me that if I want speak, write correctly I have to read BOOKS. so if you could point out some of the best books that will be a good example to follow, be interesting and what not . I don't want to waste my time, which is why I'm asking you. Perhaps classics I need to know about, books that have good story line with excellent writing.
[...]
Now that you read my thread you should get an idea why I'm doing this, my sentences are straight forward, plain, don't flow like their suppose to.

You're doing very well, but could use some correction work on your grammar at times. That's generally best done in a class, where you learn the rules, apply them, and have someone guide and check you. Even native speakers can do better in their own language with formal study of grammar. You've probably already done that, but could use some more practice, experience/exposure, and perhaps simply more care to distinguish the grammatical differences between your native language and English.

Reading is certainly important, and starting with books aimed at young people might not be a bad idea, if you have trouble with more advanced work. I read the first Percy Jackson series with my son, and enjoyed it. Pick that or something else you might like from one of the kid's sections in a bookstore. But don't keep on reading the same author or advance at the sort of pace a kid would be expected to. You're not a kid, and can advance much faster than them and handle more difficult literature sooner, which will help you further. Try Dickens and other English authors when you can. Don't worry about Shakespeare unless you really want that exposure -- the language he used is not the modern one.

From the point of view of language exposure, no reading will be a waste of time, so don't try to read unnecessarily difficult works for their own sake. Find subject matter that captures your interest to keep you reading. That of course will be your personal choice.

You should also consider that fluency in a language and the ability to write or speak eloquently are two different things. Everyone's a native speaker of at least one language, but few people are eloquent or especially admirable in their writing and thought. They are in my view two different skills, and eloquence is not even conditional upon fluency. The greatest eloquence can also come with simplicity, and the violation of the typical norms of a language -- as in poetry.

 

[AreaCode707]

English lit major here, and I LOVE Shakespeare but it isn't a good place to start for vocabulary building and language comprehension. Most English speakers have to strain to really follow Shakespeare properly.

I disagree with those who say avoid books and focus on spoken conversation. Yes, watching and practicing his speech will help him improve, but he specifically wants to improve his vocabulary and books will do more to help with that than anything else.

I liked the suggestion about young adult literature. If you dial back into the 20th century you'll find content that is well-written and will start to improve your understanding of the English language.

I find this to be a really fantastic list, containing a lot of what you missed as a teen. It's not intended for young adults - almost everything on here was written for an adult audience - but these books are striking for their ability to expand minds and language skills.

Jack London, George Orwell, Mark Twain, Jules Verne, Aldous Huxley, Voltaire, Joseph Heller, C.S. Lewis, Alexander Dumas (good storylines!), Ray Bradbury, Tolkein, Victor Hugo, H.G. Wells, John Steinbeck, Oscar Wilde (WOW for great use of language), Harper Lee (To Kill a Mockingbird is a FANTASTIC book and an easy read)...

Honestly, these are some of the best books in western literature, with masters of the English language as their authors. There's a reason they cram them down the throats of uncooperative 14 year olds.

 

[adlep]

Being Polish myself, the biggest differences in my case were:
1. When I started my own business. I then had no choice but to start speaking with my clients in a proper English. Otherwise I would not earn the money and their referral.
2. When I started dating an American gal. Ur English skills rise through the roof and FAST.
3. If you are in Chicago avoid hanging out with Polish crowd exclusively. Go out with more diverse crowd.
4. Powodzenia.


Edit: Reading Shakespeare will not help. It does not have much to do with the way "regular" present day people talk.

 

[lxskllr]

I disagree with those who say avoid books and focus on spoken conversation. Yes, watching and practicing his speech will help him improve, but he specifically wants to improve his vocabulary and books will do more to help with that than anything else.

Good speeches work well because it's quality English distilled down for idiots. When someone gives a speech(no, not your dipshit boss at Xmas) it's designed to inspire, motivate, and rally, yet be understandable to someone who didn't finish grade school. It's also a resource you can find transcripts of, as well as audio/video, so you can see how it's done right.

 

[dmcowen674]

Hello to all,
I have created this thread in order to ask you for help. Ever since I emigrated to USA 6 years ago I struggle to become proficient at speaking fluently in English.

http://toastmasterslp.com/

Whether you’re a professional, student, stay-at-home parent or retiree, our Toastmasters Club is the best way to improve your communication skills.

 

[paperfist]

my friends are mostly from Europe but we speak English with each other because of so many nationalities. I do have a lot of American born friends who I regularly hangout with. My community college which I attended prides itself on the fact that its the one of the most diverse student body.

That's helpful, having 'English' conversations. My GF is from Europe and has trouble not speaking English, but understanding some of our words, but she typically only associates with other Europeans.

Reading and especially old fashion writing seems to help her out a lot since you tend to expand your vocabulary when faced with words you never encountered before.

 

[clamum]

Listen to some Dr. Dre albums ftw?

 

[Duder1no]

My best tool to learn English as a second language was definitively american Movies/TV.

 

[Rumpltzer]

When I was a kid (say 8 years-old through 14 years-old), I read a lot. I'm talking, 3 books at once and 5 books a week. Library; it's free books!

When I was in high school, it became clear that my writing was above par. The AP Lit exam was no big deal. I also comp'ed out of all the undergrad English and writing requirements, but I took poetry and comparative lit classes in college for fun. I dominated those classes, but I think it's mostly because I had a stronger work (homework) ethic than my peers (in those classes). I'm an EE.

As an engineer, I'm now well above my peers in writing skills; in a pool of generally poor writers.

With email and forums and keyboards, I do notice that my writing has degraded.

I'd say that the advice about reading more is good. I'll also say that it's not going to be a quick solution. I also advocate junior high school-level classics and juvenile/young adult books as a good basis. I think that a native English-speaking girlfriend is also a great idea... but you gotta talk to her.

 

[0roo0roo]

I disagree with those who say avoid books and focus on spoken conversation. Yes, watching and practicing his speech will help him improve, but he specifically wants to improve his vocabulary and books will do more to help with that than anything else.

The book worms in the library are the most eloquent speakers around?

That isn't quite true is it?

Like it or not reading is totally passive. It can only help with context/vocab, it can't really help with flow. Like trying to learn a foreign language just by reading, it won't work.

He's better off joining some kind of improv/theater class or group.

 

[dighn]

My best tool to learn English as a second language was definitively american Movies/TV.

I've found these to be really helpful as well. Books only start to become useful when you are no longer struggling with the basics, and want to learn more advanced vocabulary, sentence structures and expressions.

 

[arrfep]

iLektron, where do you go to school, in the city or the suburbs?

I work with many immigrants, and most of them learn English very fast because they are immersed in it at work. Both of my parents learned the same way. I think simply immersing yourself is the best method, but also agree with reading newspapers and magazines. The forums are good as well, but be careful because improper language is often used.

Another idea is to borrow from the library some of the popular fiction books, and check the same book out on CD. This way you can listen along while you read to help with your pronunciation.