Hello, America: Lets stop funding our enemies

[raildogg]

So I was watching a great show on tv and it got me thinking. With every drop of oil we put in our vehicles, use in our planes, tanks, boats, ships etc, we are making our enemy stronger. The enemy is laughing at us each day. We currently have no alternative, but really, don't we? We can minimize our consumption of fuel by doing many things. Personally, I'm going to get me a fuel efficient car for my next car. I never thought I would have said that a few years ago. I was "SUV crazy" back then. But the sad thing is that many Americans are still "SUV crazy". They just don't care. Getting a more fuel efficient car is just one way but we can do more. We can help companies, such as Honda, which are developing hydrogen based cars. We can send out letters to politicians to tell them to not put tariffs on such things as ethanol etc. Tariffs are almost always a bad thing, but that is another subject all to itself. By getting off oil or reducing our dependence on it, we can make America that much stronger compared to, lets say, China. China is certainly going to increase its consumption of oil in the future. We can take the opposite route and live up to our label as the world's leading technological country.

We can help each other and care about the direction we as humans are going in. I know that our oil suppliers are not entirely sponsoring terrorism, but consumption of oil is addictive and we must get off it. I don't want to send any more of my money to Saudi Arabia or any of these countries. But do I have a choice right now? Unfortunately, no. I'll leave the topic of air travel, sea travel, space travel to someone else. But we have to find alternatives and think carefully before we make our enemies even more stronger.

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: raildogg
So I was watching a great show on tv and it got me thinking. With every drop of oil we put in our vehicles, use in our planes, tanks, boats, ships etc, we are making our enemy stronger. The enemy is laughing at us each day. We currently have no alternative, but really, don't we? We can minimize our consumption of fuel by doing many things. Personally, I'm going to get me a fuel efficient car for my next car. I never thought I would have said that a few years ago. I was "SUV crazy" back then. But the sad thing is that many Americans are still "SUV crazy". They just don't care. Getting a more fuel efficient car is just one way but we can do more. We can help companies, such as Honda, which are developing hydrogen based cars. We can send out letters to politicians to tell them to not put tariffs on such things as ethanol etc. Tariffs are almost always a bad thing, but that is another subject all to itself.

We can help each other and care about the direction we as humans are going in. I know that our oil suppliers are not entirely sponsoring terrorism, but consumption of oil is addictive and we must get off it. I don't want to send any more of my money to Saudi Arabia or any of these countries. But do I have a choice right now? Unfortunately, no. I'll leave the topic of air travel, sea travel, space travel to someone else. But we have to find alternatives and think carefully before we make our enemies even more stronger.

Do you know where the US gets most of its oil? The people sponsoring the enemies are Europe, Korea and China and SE Asia.

 

[CanOWorms]

You're also sending your money to countries like Canada, Mexico, etc. and even within the US.

 

[raildogg]

Originally posted by: RichardE
Do you know where the US gets most of its oil? The people sponsoring the enemies are Europe, Korea and China and SE Asia.

That is not the main point of the argument but a part of it. We do get our oil from terrorist sponsoring countries. Our imports from Nigeria or Africa in general may increase in the future but then who will we make stronger? The tyrants who run those countries? The politicians who pay off thugs? You are right in that Europe and other parts of the globe do depend on the Mid East more than us but we certainly get our share of it too. We are the world's leading consumer, although that title may change. Also, do we want our money to go to Venezuela? They are a better alternative than the Mid East nations but not by much. Brazil is a great example of a nation that is taking charge and saying enough is enough. They should be a role model to us, although I have not studied the whole background of that. Too bad our import duty on oil is 0% and on ethanol is 100%. This world and this country needs to think things through.

 

[Termagant]

Oil is a commodity, so everyone who buys it is "sponsoring" the "terror states" by keeping the price where it is. If the US reduces imports of oil, this may reduce global prices. But at those lower prices with more available supply, growing economies such as India and China will simply buy that much more to fuel their growth.

One idea in hindsight is that the US could have helped China and India build more post petroleum infrastructure in the 80s. Then those nations could have lessoned the heavy reliance on petroleum that is fueling their current growth. Unfortunately the technology/foresight/will did not exist. I predict China rethinks petroleum use in the future due to pollution problems. A country whose economy is ultimately centrally planned by authoritarians is poised to quickly create a new domestic energy paradigm if pollution becomes too dramatic.

 

[MadRat]

Better to buy up all the oil than to leave it to others. Oil is a potential that must be used or someone else will.

Then again, if you do not manufacture your enemies then one greater than you may appear unpredictably.

 

[jman19]

Originally posted by: raildogg
So I was watching a great show on tv and it got me thinking. With every drop of oil we put in our vehicles, use in our planes, tanks, boats, ships etc, we are making our enemy stronger. The enemy is laughing at us each day. We currently have no alternative, but really, don't we? We can minimize our consumption of fuel by doing many things. Personally, I'm going to get me a fuel efficient car for my next car. I never thought I would have said that a few years ago. I was "SUV crazy" back then. But the sad thing is that many Americans are still "SUV crazy". They just don't care. Getting a more fuel efficient car is just one way but we can do more. We can help companies, such as Honda, which are developing hydrogen based cars. We can send out letters to politicians to tell them to not put tariffs on such things as ethanol etc. Tariffs are almost always a bad thing, but that is another subject all to itself. By getting off oil or reducing our dependence on it, we can make America that much stronger compared to, lets say, China. China is certainly going to increase its consumption of oil in the future. We can take the opposite route and live up to our label as the world's leading technological country.

We can help each other and care about the direction we as humans are going in. I know that our oil suppliers are not entirely sponsoring terrorism, but consumption of oil is addictive and we must get off it. I don't want to send any more of my money to Saudi Arabia or any of these countries. But do I have a choice right now? Unfortunately, no. I'll leave the topic of air travel, sea travel, space travel to someone else. But we have to find alternatives and think carefully before we make our enemies even more stronger.

Cool, so I take it you'll stop driving?

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: jman19

Originally posted by: raildogg
So I was watching a great show on tv and it got me thinking. With every drop of oil we put in our vehicles, use in our planes, tanks, boats, ships etc, we are making our enemy stronger. The enemy is laughing at us each day. We currently have no alternative, but really, don't we? We can minimize our consumption of fuel by doing many things. Personally, I'm going to get me a fuel efficient car for my next car. I never thought I would have said that a few years ago. I was "SUV crazy" back then. But the sad thing is that many Americans are still "SUV crazy". They just don't care. Getting a more fuel efficient car is just one way but we can do more. We can help companies, such as Honda, which are developing hydrogen based cars. We can send out letters to politicians to tell them to not put tariffs on such things as ethanol etc. Tariffs are almost always a bad thing, but that is another subject all to itself. By getting off oil or reducing our dependence on it, we can make America that much stronger compared to, lets say, China. China is certainly going to increase its consumption of oil in the future. We can take the opposite route and live up to our label as the world's leading technological country.

We can help each other and care about the direction we as humans are going in. I know that our oil suppliers are not entirely sponsoring terrorism, but consumption of oil is addictive and we must get off it. I don't want to send any more of my money to Saudi Arabia or any of these countries. But do I have a choice right now? Unfortunately, no. I'll leave the topic of air travel, sea travel, space travel to someone else. But we have to find alternatives and think carefully before we make our enemies even more stronger.

Cool, so I take it you'll stop driving?

Cool, and I take it you will never be a leader in anything and will always wait for someone to follow.!

 

[6000SUX]

We need to eliminate our dependence on foreign oil, not reduce it. To do this, we need to start driving fuel-cell or electric cars. I think that this hasn't happened so far for two main reasons: the oil lobby is powerful, and converting the country to run on other power sources is not a job that can be finished in a single Presidential or Senate term, probably not even in two. Most politicians aren't fond of hugely expensive projects that they don't get credit for while in office.

 

[mechBgon]

I commute by bicycle year-round, and have done so for over 20 years, both as a student and an employee. It doesn't work for all situations (picking up kids, taking Grandpa to the dentist, etc) but people who'd like to try reducing their oil usage might think about this option for at least some short errands. Starting your car cold just to make a 1-mile beer run is an example. Get an old Schwinn 1-speed cruiser with a big basket on the front, and a cheap lock, and there's your starter rig

It would be interesting to know how many tens of thousands of dollars I've saved on gas, parking & maintenance over 20 years, and what that would be worth if I had had the sense to put it into mutual funds I saw one guy do the math and work it out to about $1.6 million by the time he retires. But finances aren't my strong point.

 

[dmcowen674]

We are our own worst enemy but not for the reasons given in here so far.

We should not even be using Oil at this point.

 

[EXman]

cool I buy Citgo and BP no middle east oil! of course citgo isn't looking so good lately...

 

[BlancoNino]

We should drill our own oil and make mexico drill their oil too and then shuit off the supply from the middle east and then fight the war through counterstrike to see who can get the most headshots with the ak.

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: BlancoNino
We should drill our own oil and make mexico drill their oil too and then shuit off the supply from the middle east and then fight the war through counterstrike to see who can get the most headshots with the ak.

The US is one of the leading producers of oil...


You guys just drink it all and want more

 

[alien42]

there was a great show on public television last night about the future of energy in the US. one very revealing fact is the billions of dollars in subsidies and aid that we pay to the oil companies yet the wind energy industry funding is sporadic and non-existant at times.

 

[Zorba]

Originally posted by: raildogg
So I was watching a great show on tv and it got me thinking. With every drop of oil we put in our vehicles, use in our planes, tanks, boats, ships etc, we are making our enemy stronger. The enemy is laughing at us each day. We currently have no alternative, but really, don't we? We can minimize our consumption of fuel by doing many things. Personally, I'm going to get me a fuel efficient car for my next car. I never thought I would have said that a few years ago. I was "SUV crazy" back then. But the sad thing is that many Americans are still "SUV crazy". They just don't care. Getting a more fuel efficient car is just one way but we can do more. We can help companies, such as Honda, which are developing hydrogen based cars. We can send out letters to politicians to tell them to not put tariffs on such things as ethanol etc. Tariffs are almost always a bad thing, but that is another subject all to itself. By getting off oil or reducing our dependence on it, we can make America that much stronger compared to, lets say, China. China is certainly going to increase its consumption of oil in the future. We can take the opposite route and live up to our label as the world's leading technological country.

We can help each other and care about the direction we as humans are going in. I know that our oil suppliers are not entirely sponsoring terrorism, but consumption of oil is addictive and we must get off it. I don't want to send any more of my money to Saudi Arabia or any of these countries. But do I have a choice right now? Unfortunately, no. I'll leave the topic of air travel, sea travel, space travel to someone else. But we have to find alternatives and think carefully before we make our enemies even more stronger.

Hydrogen will never be very feasible for many reasons. Even besides that fact that it would take a huge amount of electricity to create enough of it to fuel America.

- It must be stored at very high pressures, in storage, transport and in cars themselves. This makes fuel tanks very heavy limiting how much fuel you can carry. It also makes it very unsafe in accidents? Don't believe me, go outside and bust the valve off a propane tank.

- Hydrogen gas is very very dangerous. One leak in the fuel line and you can kiss your butt goodbye. Don't get me wrong, it can be fairly safe, if you know what you are doing. I've worked with it on Hydrogen Balloons but in a very controlled environment were everyone had hydrogen safety training. With how many people blow themselves up at gas stations now, imagine if they had hydrogen instead of gas vapor.

That being said, I completely agree we need a real solution to our oil addiction. I just don't think hydrogen is a real solution.

I think we really need to push for better efficiency, not just in cars but also in buildings. Part of my graduate research is on building energy conservation. It is amazing how much energy can be saved with very cheap technology - or even with just better use guidelines.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Zorba
Hydrogen will never be very feasible for many reasons. Even besides that fact that it would take a huge amount of electricity to create enough of it to fuel America.

- It must be stored at very high pressures, in storage, transport and in cars themselves. This makes fuel tanks very heavy limiting how much fuel you can carry. It also makes it very unsafe in accidents? Don't believe me, go outside and bust the valve off a propane tank.

- Hydrogen gas is very very dangerous. One leak in the fuel line and you can kiss your butt goodbye. Don't get me wrong, it can be fairly safe, if you know what you are doing. I've worked with it on Hydrogen Balloons but in a very controlled environment were everyone had hydrogen safety training. With how many people blow themselves up at gas stations now, imagine if they had hydrogen instead of gas vapor.

That being said, I completely agree we need a real solution to our oil addiction. I just don't think hydrogen is a real solution.

Awwwwwwww a Saudi sympathizer and a Hydrogen wuss all in one. Congrats

 

[2Xtreme21]

Yeah that's like people with the "I support W" stickers on the backs of their hummers.

Go figure.

 

[Buck Armstrong]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
We are our own worst enemy but not for the reasons given in here so far.

We should not even be using Oil at this point.

Damn right! We finally agree on something.

 

[Zorba]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Zorba
Hydrogen will never be very feasible for many reasons. Even besides that fact that it would take a huge amount of electricity to create enough of it to fuel America.

- It must be stored at very high pressures, in storage, transport and in cars themselves. This makes fuel tanks very heavy limiting how much fuel you can carry. It also makes it very unsafe in accidents? Don't believe me, go outside and bust the valve off a propane tank.

- Hydrogen gas is very very dangerous. One leak in the fuel line and you can kiss your butt goodbye. Don't get me wrong, it can be fairly safe, if you know what you are doing. I've worked with it on Hydrogen Balloons but in a very controlled environment were everyone had hydrogen safety training. With how many people blow themselves up at gas stations now, imagine if they had hydrogen instead of gas vapor.

That being said, I completely agree we need a real solution to our oil addiction. I just don't think hydrogen is a real solution.

Awwwwwwww a Saudi sympathizer and a Hydrogen wuss all in one. Congrats

Give me a f'in break. I have contributed more to energy conservation research in the last week than you have in your entire life.

Hydrogen is a fake solution to a very real problem and it is just sucking up huge amounts of research money that could go to much better and realistic technologies. How about instead of posting a one line BS statement you actually try to disprove something I stated.

Right now one of the best ways of creating hydrogen gas is by ripping the hydrogen out of natural gas (or other hydrocarbon), so you are using up a ton of natural gas to create a fuel with a lower heating value (on a molar basis).

The other popular way of creating hydrogen is through electrolysis. So to create this hydrogen you are going to take a power plant running at maybe 33% efficiency (BTU-electricity out/BTU-Fuel in) to spilt a water molecular in a process that is less than 100% efficient (2nd law). Why not just take the fuel running the power plant and put it directly into the car, it would be much more efficient? Unless you can create the electricity with non-fossil fuels the whole process makes no sense. PV while great for homes, buildings, etc. the massive farms required to create enough hydrogen for everyone in the US is completely unrealistic by any standard. Nuclear is a good short term option but uranium is a limited resource just as oil is and right now there are a ton of laws that result in the wasting of a ton of good uranium over fears of it being used for weapons.

The problem with alternative fuel research at the moment is we have politicians deciding who gets the money instead of engineers/scientists. Like ethanol is probably a pretty good solution to get us off oil, but we've got to make it out of something besides corn and soy for it to become a major contribution. But most of the research money is going into corn and soy.


Dave, I'll make it very clear for you, since I know you don't like reading very much.

I do NOT support oil in anyway, it has hurt this nation in many many ways and it is going to run out. But I think that we should spend our research money on REAL solutions instead of FAKE solutions.