Helicopter with 25 Navy Seals goes down in Afghanistan.

[BarneyFife]

We should just leave right now. Again, why are we in third world countries again? Spending money we don't have and killing people that don't need to be killed on both sides. Osama is dead. Lets leave. Right now I am more worried about the Mexican border and the drug cartels.

 

[OlafSicky]

Look at it this way it took us 10 years to track down Osama it took the terrorist couple of months to track down and kill that killed OBL . We don't stand a chance with these people.

 

[Nebor]

I don't see why not.

I wouldn't expect you to.

 

[PingviN]

Here's my gut feeling. The only guys sophisticated enough to figure out who were in that heli were the beloved patriot military, not because they're smart but because the U.S. has shared information with it in the past on the ops that were of lesser importance and they put two and two together and passed it on to the Taliban. There is no way it was a fluke.

The Talibans are opportunistic, they shoot whatever comes their way; this time, it happened to be a heli packing Navy Seals.

 

[irishScott]

The Talibans are opportunistic, they shoot whatever comes their way; this time, it happened to be a heli packing Navy Seals.

This. And if they're going to shoot down anything a low-flying Chinook would be a relatively easy target, especially easy if they've got any leftover stingers.

That said I haven't seen it confirmed anywhere that this wasn't just a freak accident. Chinooks are old...

 

[gevorg]

Reports now saying 20 of the people killed were part of "Seal Team 6" that got OBL.

No witness no crime?

/tinfoilhat

 

[the DRIZZLE]

This. And if they're going to shoot down anything a low-flying Chinook would be a relatively easy target, especially easy if they've got any leftover stingers.

That said I haven't seen it confirmed anywhere that this wasn't just a freak accident. Chinooks are old...

Also don't forget that these guys by definition get the difficult missions. I seriously doubt the Taliban tracked anyone down. They probably just got luckly or it was just a helicopter crash. For all we know they could have been flying in another one of those experimental helicopters used on the Bin Ladin raid.

 

[Zebo]

I am just reminded of the Vietnam War, where we lost some 58,000 US service men and women. It was the war of my generation and it dates me, some of those 58,000 names were people I went to high school with, I can remember them as living human beings, but now they are nothing but a set of letters carved on a black granite wall. What did they die for, face the facts, they died for nothing, nothing at all other than the ego of US Presidents who pissed away their lives for nothing.

Now we are in the same type war in Afghanistan, as idiot US Presidents piss away more US lives for nothing.

But now I have to ask, is any human life, worth more than any other, be that life a Taliban member, a Afghan civilian, or a US service man or women dying in a rather senseless cause? As for me, I refuse to address that question because it has no moral answer.

But from the standpoint of the US military, losing twenty five highly trained US navy seals, is a bigger blow than losing 500 ordinary US reservists who are more in the cheap expendable cannon fodder classification.

I don't think it's as hard as you make it. These are honorable warriors while taliban is just another terror group that rules with fear intimidation murder and torture including collective and familial punishment. If we fought like that our troubles would be over real quick but would destroy who we are. I could get into their fundi religion how they treat women like vomit, etc but their tactics are enough to despise them.

 

[Binarycow]

So you are pro-Taliban?

more like a pro-jackasses

 

[Binarycow]

I am just reminded of the Vietnam War, where we lost some 58,000 US service men and women. It was the war of my generation and it dates me, some of those 58,000 names were people I went to high school with, I can remember them as living human beings, but now they are nothing but a set of letters carved on a black granite wall. What did they die for, face the facts, they died for nothing, nothing at all other than the ego of US Presidents who pissed away their lives for nothing.

Now we are in the same type war in Afghanistan, as idiot US Presidents piss away more US lives for nothing.

But now I have to ask, is any human life, worth more than any other, be that life a Taliban member, a Afghan civilian, or a US service man or women dying in a rather senseless cause? As for me, I refuse to address that question because it has no moral answer.

But from the standpoint of the US military, losing twenty five highly trained US navy seals, is a bigger blow than losing 500 ordinary US reservists who are more in the cheap expendable cannon fodder classification.

in an academic environment one may contemplate on it. In real life one needs to accept that some human lives are more worthless than others then has to make that call whose life is more worthless.

 

[Analog]

I am just reminded of the Vietnam War, where we lost some 58,000 US service men and women. It was the war of my generation and it dates me, some of those 58,000 names were people I went to high school with, I can remember them as living human beings, but now they are nothing but a set of letters carved on a black granite wall. What did they die for, face the facts, they died for nothing, nothing at all other than the ego of US Presidents who pissed away their lives for nothing.

Now we are in the same type war in Afghanistan, as idiot US Presidents piss away more US lives for nothing.

But now I have to ask, is any human life, worth more than any other, be that life a Taliban member, a Afghan civilian, or a US service man or women dying in a rather senseless cause? As for me, I refuse to address that question because it has no moral answer.

But from the standpoint of the US military, losing twenty five highly trained US navy seals, is a bigger blow than losing 500 ordinary US reservists who are more in the cheap expendable cannon fodder classification.

It was the war of my generation too. I wonder if we can do better than these old helicopters to transport our troops.

 

[Vic Vega]

That's terrible.

The reason we are still there is because the pres knows something we don't about the situation.

Obama would have us out of there if he could. Given we are still there, i'd say there's a pretty damn good reason we are still there at this point.

Not good enough. It wasn't good enough when Bush Jr. was in office and it's not good enough now either. Of course the Democrats are so blinded by their hate they would never admit this.

 

[feralkid]

I hate to be a conspiracist,

Liar.

 

[Nebor]

It was the war of my generation too. I wonder if we can do better than these old helicopters to transport our troops.

I really don't think there's anything wrong with the Chinook. It's enormously powerful, and the fastest helicopter in wide use by the Army. It can operate at altitudes that Blackhawks\Seahawks cannot due to all that power.

And apparently it's good enough for most of the Western world to continue to buy new ones from us today.

I'm not saying it's perfect, but I don't think you'll find many people in the Army that would complain about them.

 

[a777pilot]

Not good enough. It wasn't good enough when Bush Jr. was in office and it's not good enough now either. Of course the Democrats are so blinded by their hate they would never admit this.

Bush(43) did not support the attack on Tora Bora as he should have (Big mistake, among others). I have been calling for the US to get out of that pile of rocks ever since then.

If we had gotten out years ago we would be in a much better position today. We should be in Iraq and Pakistan. those are the important countries. No that does NOT mean we invade Pakistan but they need our help and we should be giving them our help.

 

[blackangst1]

RIP to the heroes.

Turn that whole area into a pulverized parking lot. Do the same thing in any other area where an attack happens on US soldiers. That will end it. Since we don't have the stomach for that kind of carnage, we need to get the hell out.

The only difference between a terrorist and a patriot is the side youre on.

 

[Nebor]

The only difference between a terrorist and a patriot is the side youre on.

Agreed.

We should kill all those terrorists, their families and their supporters. :thumbsup:

 

[OBLAMA2009]

The only difference between a terrorist and a patriot is the side youre on.

what is a seal other than a terrorist who uses stealth to sneak into somewhere and then commit mass murder?

 

[Icepick]

RIP 31 good men.

 

[Icepick]

Not surprising since it was the U.S. CIA who trained the Taliban how to take down helicopters and supplied them with RPG's. They became experts at it during the Russian invasion and continue to hone their skills today.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Liar.

You got me.

 

[Icepick]

Not sure why we are still there.

We are still there because the U.S. needs to keep central Asia and the Middle East in a state of chaos to prevent one entity from becoming too powerful in the region. The same reason we are in Afghanistan. We are also keeping pressure on Russia.

 

[Nebor]

what is a seal other than a terrorist who uses stealth to sneak into somewhere and then commit mass murder?

They're better at it than pretty much anyone else in the world.

 

[Lemon law]

Agreed.

We should kill all those terrorists, their families and their supporters. :thumbsup:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As Nebor States he advocates terrorism, and in a later post says Navy Seals are are really the best at being terrorists.

But still I think we are all missing the point, due to current US tactics in trying to win a military occupation on the cheap, the USA and Nato are in a no win war. The only question is how long the USA and Nato will vaingloriously continue to lose blood and treasure until we pull out, sail home, find some face saving phrase like peace with honor, and say Afghanistan is not worth saving. Meanwhile every US soldier killed or injured is a life pissed away for no US national gain. Just like in Vietnam. And just like in Vietnam, no one in the USA and Nato will learn a damn thing from the experience, especially the lesson on why we lost.

Simply because of three or damn big mistakes. (1) We never looked at Afghanistan from the perspective of the Afghan people. And when the US Nato strategy only boils down to the result of keeping Afghanistan in perpetual anarchy and warfare, the US and Nato have a guaranteed game loser there. (2) We believed our own propaganda, and when we sided with the most corrupt elements in Afghan society, in the war lords, and drug sellers, we don't fool the Afghan people, we fool only ourselves. Because the Afghan people are going to quite properly see us as terrorists and rat finks, and not the good guys. (3) Then we fail to see why the Taliban emerged as the winner of the the Afghan civil war following the Russians leaving. But the Taliban may be brutal, and not liked by the Afghan people, but they are the group that stood up to the Afghan war lords and drug corruption, and at least a modicum of order and stability followed. And now all the Nato and the US has done is bringing back
anarchy and warfare in perpetuity. Nothing is worse than perpetual anarchy.

As we also miss the lesson of the so called surge in Iraq. Was it just adding a few more troops, that is somewhat a no, Obama surged troops in Afghanistan too and got no such positive results. IMHO, it worked in Iraq, not because of a surge, but because US diplomatic efforts with the Sunnis. When it resulted in a big reduction in overall Iraqi violence, it allow Iraq to become manageable in the great reduction of overall violence

But the Afghan level of violence continues to get worse. Connect the dots.

 

[irishScott]

More details: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/0...n-as-nato-moves-to-recover-downed-helicopter/

U.S. officials say the 22 Navy SEAL Team Six members and other troops lost in Saturday's helicopter crash in Afghanistan had rushed to the area to help fellow U.S. troops under fire.

The officials say the SEALs had responded to a request by U.S. Army Rangers who were taking heavy fire after going after a target.

One of the officials says the SEALs had completed their mission, subduing the attackers, and were departing in a U.S. Army Chinook helicopter when it was apparently hit by rocket-propelled grenade fire.

The other official said that the Rangers, special operations forces who work regularly with the SEALs, secured the crash site afterward. Both officials spoke on condition of anonymity to describe the event while the investigation remains ongoing.