Heat Pump 2023 - Energy Efficient Home Improvement Credit

[Brovane]

Recently moved to Eastern part of San Diego County. My new house the current HVAC system is 3+ decades old and I am looking at replacing the units. The current furnaces I have use propane.
When the Inflation Reduction act passed last year, included in it was tax credits to improve the energy efficiency of your home. Based on my reading of the new law.

Electric or natural gas heat pump water heaters, electric or natural gas heat pumps, and biomass stoves and biomass boilers have a separate aggregate yearly credit limit of $2,000.

https://www.irs.gov/credits-deducti...dit-qualifying-expenditures-and-credit-amount

I read that I can get up to $2,000 tax credit in a single year for installing a new heat-pump system.

Anybody have recommendations for heat pumps? I was looking at Carrier, ACPro (Rebranded Lennox for the Southern CA market)or a Trane unit?

 

[K1052]

Welcome to the neighborhood. I'm in the process of replacing a 16 year old heat pump thats just done. Developer put in the absolute cheapest unit they could find and they're all giving up around the same time in my condo building.

I'm sort of agnostic on brand since a lot of stuff is either just rebranded Chinese production or comes out of Mexico. One company has specced a Daikin, another Carrier, and waiting on one more.

I do suggest doing this in the next couple months though while the HVAC shops are not busy if you want decent pricing and a quick install. Once it gets hot it's a pain in the ass to get someone out to look at a malfunctioning system or get scheduled for a new install.

Edit: I also strongly suggest considering solar power given SDG&E's extortionate rates.

 

[Muse]

I figure I need a heat pump system here, I have only space heaters! DIY maybe, I'm green as can be, need to read up. It's mild here, not as mild as San Diego (Berkeley, CA). I survive on space heaters in the critical rooms (bedroom and kitchen), but it's not pleasant some of the time.

 

[Brovane]

Welcome to the neighborhood. I'm in the process of replacing a 16 year old heat pump thats just done. Developer put in the absolute cheapest unit they could find and they're all giving up around the same time in my condo building.

I'm sort of agnostic on brand since a lot of stuff is either just rebranded Chinese production or comes out of Mexico. One company has specced a Daikin, another Carrier, and waiting on one more.

I do suggest doing this in the next couple months though while the HVAC shops are not busy if you want decent pricing and a quick install. Once it gets hot it's a pain in the ass to get someone out to look at a malfunctioning system or get scheduled for a new install.

Edit: I also strongly suggest considering solar power given SDG&E's extortionate rates.

I have gotten pricing back on both Carrier and ACPRO. I was really shocked at the Quote I got back from a major installed here in San Diego County of Carrier. They quoted me $10k for this 4-ton Unit Carrier (https://www.carrier.com/residential/en/us/products/heat-pumps/38mura/) with a dual fuel system with a backup Furnace. The price was $1k lower than equivalent ACPro system quote I got. I have a quote from a installer from September of last year that wanted $24k to install two standard 16 SEER Goodman 4-ton units. I think I am going to pull the trigger on replacing both HVAC units this year and get it done.

As far as solar, that is in progress. I am getting installed a 20kw ground mount system and I am also getting a 70kwh battery system. The new solar system should generate about 34,000 kwh of energy a year. I am right now getting hammered by SDGE bills, over $700+ a month in electric bills. Trying to get the solar installed before NEM 3.0 goes into effect in CA.

 

[BoomerD]

I figure I need a heat pump system here, I have only space heaters! DIY maybe, I'm green as can be, need to read up. It's mild here, not as mild as San Diego (Berkeley, CA). I survive on space heaters in the critical rooms (bedroom and kitchen), but it's not pleasant some of the time.

Do you have natural gas already to your house? IIRC, Bezerkely has banned gas for new construction...not sure about retrofit/upgrades.

In your climate, a decent heat pump, maybe even a ductless heat pump would make a huge difference in indoor comfort as well as being more...friendly for your PG&E bill. (or EB SMUD which ever you have) A good heat pump coupled with a natural gas furnace would be (IMO) the best option...IF you already have a gas furnace. If not...would the city even let you add one?

 

[K1052]

I have gotten pricing back on both Carrier and ACPRO. I was really shocked at the Quote I got back from a major installed here in San Diego County of Carrier. They quoted me $10k for this 4-ton Unit Carrier (https://www.carrier.com/residential/en/us/products/heat-pumps/38mura/) with a dual fuel system with a backup Furnace. The price was $1k lower than equivalent ACPro system quote I got. I have a quote from a installer from September of last year that wanted $24k to install two standard 16 SEER Goodman 4-ton units. I think I am going to pull the trigger on replacing both HVAC units this year and get it done.

As far as solar, that is in progress. I am getting installed a 20kw ground mount system and I am also getting a 70kwh battery system. The new solar system should generate about 34,000 kwh of energy a year. I am right now getting hammered by SDGE bills, over $700+ a month in electric bills. Trying to get the solar installed before NEM 3.0 goes into effect in CA.

Both quotes I've got right now are about $11-$12K for a SEER 16 single stage 2.5 ton replacement and to replace the in unit air handler. Expecting the 3rd to be about the same when it comes in.

My roof mounted solar array is the only thing I miss about Texas. Biggest bill I've gotten during the heat was about $285, which is the most I've ever seen in a multifamily building. That should improve with a non-POS heat pump working instead. $700/mo is eye watering though.

 

[Muse]

Do you have natural gas already to your house? IIRC, Bezerkely has banned gas for new construction...not sure about retrofit/upgrades.

In your climate, a decent heat pump, maybe even a ductless heat pump would make a huge difference in indoor comfort as well as being more...friendly for your PG&E bill. (or EB SMUD which ever you have) A good heat pump coupled with a natural gas furnace would be (IMO) the best option...IF you already have a gas furnace. If not...would the city even let you add one?

I have natural gas. The house was built in 1910 !!!

The gas furnace has been disconnected and been rusting inside the crawl space since I moved here in 1983, AFAIK. IOW, there's been no central heat since then. I shared the house with 5 other people then, people came and went (maybe 100 of them) until I bought the house in 2000, at which time I kicked out the 2 remaining people with whom I shared the house as a rental previously. No remorse, I was almost always the only one who did any maintenance here.

My understanding (could be wrong) is that gas stove in kitchen in new construction was banned in Berkeley 2-3 years ago, but AFAIK there's no restrictions on heating.

I have a Noritz tankless water heater which runs on gas, although it has electricity to ignite the gas, also I have the optional temperature control in the house, which I really like. In winter I turn it up to 115, drop it to 110 when it's warmer. It allows me to shower and not have to fiddle with the valve to get a temperature I like.

Yes, I think Bezerkely's restriction on gas stoves in new construction is ridiculous. IMO, it's just another of the city council's reaching for national attention as an ego boost to compensate for their failures. The streets here are in horrible condition on average. I can't stand to bicycle down my street on my block, I stay on the sidewalk until I get to acceptable pavement. The recent election had the voters reject their bond issue to raise $600M at least partly because their promise to fix the streets was meaningless, it was to be thrown into a slush fund and they likely would have squandered the money, which they are good at.

I just noticed my PG&E bill was $67 for the last month. I'm on a reduced charges program, which helps some (low income qualifies me for that if I apply and I do, and reconfirm my eligibility every couple years when directed to do so, same with my water bill, EBMUD has a similar program).

I figure ordinary gas heating could boost my gas bill by a factor of 5 or 10 in colder weather! I figure I don't have to heat the entire 1925 square foot house. Some rooms I can hopefully leave chilly because they aren't used much (just me here now). I hear that heat pump would be a lot cheaper than _regular_ central heating. I can maybe choose and install a system myself, there was a thread here I bookmarked, can look at it again, someone or more recommended looking at a HP that was around $700 IIRC.

Yes, I figure I could add a gas heater, but not positive.

 

[Brovane]

Both quotes I've got right now are about $11-$12K for a SEER 16 single stage 2.5 ton replacement and to replace the in unit air handler. Expecting the 3rd to be about the same when it comes in.

My roof mounted solar array is the only thing I miss about Texas. Biggest bill I've gotten during the heat was about $285, which is the most I've ever seen in a multifamily building. That should improve with a non-POS heat pump working instead. $700/mo is eye watering though.

If you haven't yet you might want to talk to Airmaxx, since if I remember correctly you are in San Diego . https://airmaxx.com/ They are the ones that quoted me the $10k to replace a 4-ton HVAC Package unit.

For me a 2-acre property with a pool, hot-tub, electric oven, cooktop, 3800 sq-ft house and a BEV equals huge electric bill. I cannot wait until I get solar installed.

 

[skyking]

@Brovane , with two acres is there a possibility of doing a Ground Source Heat Pump (GSHP)?
You would need to dig up quite a bit of real estate but the payoff is nice.
I have experience with this process. This is a 3 ton system I did for my brother, and I am getting a quote this week for a 3 ton hydronic plus a 3 ton air heat pump for the new place.
My brother's build, 2011
I'd be happy to discuss it with you if you have undeveloped pasture or lawn you can trench the loops into.
The difference in tax breaks is huge. it is a flat 30% tax credit on the cost, just like solar. The long term efficiency is also huge.

 

[Muse]

I have natural gas. The house was built in 1910 !!!

The gas furnace has been disconnected and been rusting inside the crawl space since I moved here in 1983, AFAIK. IOW, there's been no central heat since then. I shared the house with 5 other people then, people came and went (maybe 100 of them) until I bought the house in 2000, at which time I kicked out the 2 remaining people with whom I shared the house as a rental previously. No remorse, I was almost always the only one who did any maintenance here.

My understanding (could be wrong) is that gas stove in kitchen in new construction was banned in Berkeley 2-3 years ago, but AFAIK there's no restrictions on heating.

I have a Noritz tankless water heater which runs on gas, although it has electricity to ignite the gas, also I have the optional temperature control in the house, which I really like. In winter I turn it up to 115, drop it to 110 when it's warmer. It allows me to shower and not have to fiddle with the valve to get a temperature I like.

Yes, I think Bezerkely's restriction on gas stoves in new construction is ridiculous. IMO, it's just another of the city council's reaching for national attention as an ego boost to compensate for their failures. The streets here are in horrible condition on average. I can't stand to bicycle down my street on my block, I stay on the sidewalk until I get to acceptable pavement. The recent election had the voters reject their bond issue to raise $600M at least partly because their promise to fix the streets was meaningless, it was to be thrown into a slush fund and they likely would have squandered the money, which they are good at.

I just noticed my PG&E bill was $67 for the last month. I'm on a reduced charges program, which helps some (low income qualifies me for that if I apply and I do, and reconfirm my eligibility every couple years when directed to do so, same with my water bill, EBMUD has a similar program).

I figure ordinary gas heating could boost my gas bill by a factor of 5 or 10 in colder weather! I figure I don't have to heat the entire 1925 square foot house. Some rooms I can hopefully leave chilly because they aren't used much (just me here now). I hear that heat pump would be a lot cheaper than _regular_ central heating. I can maybe choose and install a system myself, there was a thread here I bookmarked, can look at it again, someone or more recommended looking at a HP that was around $700 IIRC.

Yes, I figure I could add a gas heater, but not positive.

This is the thread where I was recommended a heat pump system:

Page 4 - Please recommend me a space heater

Page 4 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

forums.anandtech.com

 

[Brovane]

@Brovane , with two acres is there a possibility of doing a Ground Source Heat Pump (GSHP)?
You would need to dig up quite a bit of real estate but the payoff is nice.
I have experience with this process. This is a 3 ton system I did for my brother, and I am getting a quote this week for a 3 ton hydronic plus a 3 ton air heat pump for the new place.
My brother's build, 2011
I'd be happy to discuss it with you if you have undeveloped pasture or lawn you can trench the loops into.
The difference in tax breaks is huge. it is a flat 30% tax credit on the cost, just like solar. The long term efficiency is also huge.

I looked into a Geo-thermal Heat Pump system but I decided not to considering the size of the solar system I am going to be installing.
That system you did for your brother looks awesome. I bet it saves a ton of money on heating/cooling and hot water costs.

 

[K1052]

If you haven't yet you might want to talk to Airmaxx, since if I remember correctly you are in San Diego . https://airmaxx.com/ They are the ones that quoted me the $10k to replace a 4-ton HVAC Package unit.

They are one of the two quotes I have in hand so far. I have a bit of extra labor since they've got to get the old unit down and the new one up to the roof of a six floor building.

 

[skyking]

he pays the basic 17 a month for a meter read, and that's about it. His net metering off that solar plus the heat pump efficiency has him at almost net zero. The GSHP is about twice as efficient as air source.
The desuperheater feature would heat all your hot water whenever the heat pump is running, either cooling or heating days. It would not take it to 130, it tops out at about 120 so you'd have a tiny bit of electricity to get it topped up.

 

[Greenman]

I have natural gas. The house was built in 1910 !!!

The gas furnace has been disconnected and been rusting inside the crawl space since I moved here in 1983, AFAIK. IOW, there's been no central heat since then. I shared the house with 5 other people then, people came and went (maybe 100 of them) until I bought the house in 2000, at which time I kicked out the 2 remaining people with whom I shared the house as a rental previously. No remorse, I was almost always the only one who did any maintenance here.

My understanding (could be wrong) is that gas stove in kitchen in new construction was banned in Berkeley 2-3 years ago, but AFAIK there's no restrictions on heating.

I have a Noritz tankless water heater which runs on gas, although it has electricity to ignite the gas, also I have the optional temperature control in the house, which I really like. In winter I turn it up to 115, drop it to 110 when it's warmer. It allows me to shower and not have to fiddle with the valve to get a temperature I like.

Yes, I think Bezerkely's restriction on gas stoves in new construction is ridiculous. IMO, it's just another of the city council's reaching for national attention as an ego boost to compensate for their failures. The streets here are in horrible condition on average. I can't stand to bicycle down my street on my block, I stay on the sidewalk until I get to acceptable pavement. The recent election had the voters reject their bond issue to raise $600M at least partly because their promise to fix the streets was meaningless, it was to be thrown into a slush fund and they likely would have squandered the money, which they are good at.

I just noticed my PG&E bill was $67 for the last month. I'm on a reduced charges program, which helps some (low income qualifies me for that if I apply and I do, and reconfirm my eligibility every couple years when directed to do so, same with my water bill, EBMUD has a similar program).

I figure ordinary gas heating could boost my gas bill by a factor of 5 or 10 in colder weather! I figure I don't have to heat the entire 1925 square foot house. Some rooms I can hopefully leave chilly because they aren't used much (just me here now). I hear that heat pump would be a lot cheaper than _regular_ central heating. I can maybe choose and install a system myself, there was a thread here I bookmarked, can look at it again, someone or more recommended looking at a HP that was around $700 IIRC.

Yes, I figure I could add a gas heater, but not positive.

If you only want to condition just 3 or 4 rooms, a multi zone mini split system might be your answer. My hunch is that installation cost would be far les than a ducted system as your old ducts are almost certainly unusable.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

Don't be surprised that those quotes suddenly go up $2,000 once the rebates officially kick in.

Funny how that happens.