Heat issues with new build

[JWMiddleton]

I picked up a bundle from Fry's last week that included an AMD Ath X2 3800+. Built the system out of a case and tested the items I use. One of which is Rosetta@Home, a DC project. It ran fine at the normal 100% CPU utilization. I don't remember why, but I decided to load a temp monitoring program AFTER I put it in a case. Well I was shocked at the results. I even questioned if the program was correct. MyTemps For the display sample I ran the system a bit then started R@H, the temp climbed until I shut down the app.

CPU is retail with retail HS/Fan...At first I used the thermal pad. When temp reached 83c I replace the pad with Artic Silver 5, that brought the temp down to 81c.

Case is Antec Super Lanboy. Aluminum case with 2 x 120mm fans. The fans are running at a slower speed to reduce noise by design.

PS is ULTRA 550W X2-Connect Power Supply - Titanium I got it for the modular cables. It has a 120mm fan that points down into the case.

I also have an eVGA GeForce 6800 GS Co ed. But, I don't see it as the prob.

My analysis:

1. Wonder if there is some negitive interaction between the fan in the power supply and the HS/Fan, with them being so close. One might need to be reversed.

2. I have seen recommendations to replace the retail HS/FAN

3. I have read that some have changed the 120mm fan in the LanBoy case

4. Have also read some bad comments on the Ultra PS

Final note: I don't feel that I should have to spend more money to get this thing to work properly. If it is the PS location, then I will need a diff case. I hate doing that, but I can. Without R@H running it is still WAY to hot.

Your thoughts?

 

[furballi]

Retest outside the case or open the case and retest. If temperature drops more than 3C, then you have a case cooling problem. Could be bad temperature sensor(s), especially if the heatsink is warm to the touch. I'd run Prime95 in Max Heat mode and recheck temperature.

 

[JWMiddleton]

Originally posted by: furballi
Retest outside the case or open the case and retest. If temperature drops more than 3C, then you have a case cooling problem. Could be bad temperature sensor(s), especially if the heatsink is warm to the touch. I'd run Prime95 in Max Heat mode and recheck temperature.

Here are the results from removing the side panel: With side panel off - you will note that the HD temp went up. About mid-way I removed the cover, then near the end of test I put it back on. You can see it in both the CPU and HD marks.

Took cover off between 9:31 and 9:32 - CPU temp falls, HD temp rises
Started R@H between 9:33 and 9:34 - CPU temp rises
You see CPU steady between 9:36 and 9:39, but HD temp rises
Replaced side panel at 9:39 - CPU temp rises, HD temp falls

That sure make me wonder about the drive and the case cooling. It is a Maxtor SATA/150 300GB drive. When I had it running outside the case it was so hot you didn't want to hold it. So, is the fan blowing hot air off the HD into the case? I know it is, but is that enough to cause a problem? I will move it lower in the case and see the diff.

 

[RaySun2Be]

Could be bad temperature sensor(s)

Any way to check the CPU/Heatsink/case temp with an external sensor/thermometer? Just to make sure you're getting valid sensor readings?

 

[Bobthelost]

If you open the case then you'll alter the airflow over the HD(s) as such the HD temps rising a touch wouldn't be too worrying. Hard drives commonly use the metal of the drive cages as heatsinks. All in all i wouldn't worry about the HD temps untill you've sorted out the CPU.

Assuming the temps are real and you've got a cood thermal connection from the CPU to the heatsink then the heatsink should be painfully hot to the touch.

 

[JWMiddleton]

Originally posted by: RaySun2Be

Could be bad temperature sensor(s)

Any way to check the CPU/Heatsink/case temp with an external sensor/thermometer? Just to make sure you're getting valid sensor readings?

Originally posted by: Bobthelost
Assuming the temps are real and you've got a cood thermal connection from the CPU to the heatsink then the heatsink should be painfully hot to the touch.

In response to both, I did have a digital temp sensor, but can't find it. I felt the HS and I can keep my finger on the fins; it is hot, but not even close to burning me.

When I reboot the box and enter the BIOS it shows the temp as 51c, but it has had time to cool off, though not much. Then again, it could be using the same sensor.

 

[Freewolf]

#1 Get an aftermarket HS/F
#2 is the machine showing any signs of being over heated when it is running?
At those temps there is no way the machine should be running normally unless the temp readings are false.

 

[furballi]

With the case OPEN, the CPU cooler should be able to use room temp air for cooling. Assuming your room temp is around 25C, the maximum CPU temp should not exceed 50C at stock settings. The heatsink should be WARM/MEDIUM HOT to the touch at full load.

The rear fan should run faster than the front if you expect to achieve adequate airflow across the case at full load!

Reset the CMOS and retest system. I would also take the MB out of the case and retest to eliminate other variables, such as case and HDD. In this mode, the CPU should NOT exceed 50C at default BIOS settings. If the CPU temp is still higher than 60C at full load, then the MB is probably sending too much voltage to the CPU. Time to RMA the CPU/MB.


My Seagate 7200.7 is at 28C (not even lukewarm on top). If the Maxtor is blazing hot, then it will heat up the incoming air and your system's cooling will suffer.

Measure the 12V rail at the molex connector at idle and full load. The voltage should be within +/- 0.5VDC.

 

[BadThad]

The fan on the PS blows down, i.e. into the case? If that's true, that's really poor design because PS's are HOT. That think would be pouring heat directly into the CPU fan! I'm thinking this is the root of the evil, as well as a miscalibrated temp reading. 80°C is real hot, the heatsink would feel very, very hot to the touch at that temp.

 

[CTraviss]

With both the PSU and rear fan, you might have too much negative pressure in the case.

Can you try a faster front fan?

 

[CTraviss]

Originally posted by: BadThad
The fan on the PS blows down, i.e. into the case? If that's true, that's really poor design because PS's are HOT. That think would be pouring heat directly into the CPU fan! I'm thinking this is the root of the evil, as well as a miscalibrated temp reading. 80°C is real hot, the heatsink would feel very, very hot to the touch at that temp.

I'm sure he means the PS fan is pointing down. The fan doesn't blow down. All PS fans suck air up into them.

If you "feel" a PS fan is sucking air into the case, it's typically becauase there's too much negative pressure in the case and the fan on the PS is being defeated. This will cause the PSU to overheat, but certainly will not make the CPU or ambient temps of the case overheat.

 

[JWMiddleton]

Originally posted by: CTraviss

Originally posted by: BadThad
The fan on the PS blows down, i.e. into the case? If that's true, that's really poor design because PS's are HOT. That think would be pouring heat directly into the CPU fan! I'm thinking this is the root of the evil, as well as a miscalibrated temp reading. 80°C is real hot, the heatsink would feel very, very hot to the touch at that temp.

I'm sure he means the PS fan is pointing down. The fan doesn't blow down. All PS fans suck air up into them.

If you "feel" a PS fan is sucking air into the case, it's typically becauase there's too much negative pressure in the case and the fan on the PS is being defeated. This will cause the PSU to overheat, but certainly will not make the CPU or ambient temps of the case overheat.

CT is correct, the fan is pulling air from the case, and out the PS exhaust. I've seen ppl complain with this setup as having it so close to the HS/FAN that it affects the cooling of the CPU. A friend put a piece of cardboard over the PS fan because of it. I didn't agree with him. The specific fan had a 2nd fan on other face of PS.

I am wondering if there really is an issue as the system is running fine. I had it reboot this morning in WOW, but have played for hours with no prob. If the temp really was 81c as it indicates, I would think it would DIE!

 

[JWMiddleton]

Originally posted by: furballi: With the case OPEN, the CPU cooler should be able to use room temp air for cooling. Assuming your room temp is around 25C, the maximum CPU temp should not exceed 50C at stock settings. The heatsink should be WARM/MEDIUM HOT to the touch at full load.

The room is 77f/25c at worst, this morning while testing it was 68f/20c. I can hold on to the HS and it is very warm, not forced to move fingers.

Originally posted by: furballi: The rear fan should run faster than the front if you expect to achieve adequate airflow across the case at full load!

Would you not include the PS fan as well as the 120mm rear fan? The two together would surely exceed the one 120mm fan in front. All are designed as low noise fans, so they don't blow as much as others I've had.

Originally posted by: furballi: Reset the CMOS and retest system. I would also take the MB out of the case and retest to eliminate other variables, such as case and HDD. In this mode, the CPU should NOT exceed 50C at default BIOS settings. If the CPU temp is still higher than 60C at full load, then the MB is probably sending too much voltage to the CPU. Time to RMA the CPU/MB.

At this point it is at default setting. For sure it is not OC'ed, but, I will check settings. I have wondered about voltage as the 12-rail is all over the place. per the program it swings from +13 to +7 with a few dips below +5. I didn't know if that was the fault of the PS or Mobo, or if the program measuring it was goofy.

Originally posted by: furballi: Measure the 12V rail at the molex connector at idle and full load. The voltage should be within +/- 0.5VDC.

I'll use this to see if the voltage is correctly displayed. It is not a digital VM, but it looks like +12 is around 12 to 13, and +5 is around 5. Coming off of the PS I do not see a variation. That would point to the board as being the problem!

 

[rise]

12 to 13? what is "this" that you are measuring with?

the 12 at ± 5% should be 12.6-11.4v.

anyway, i do think it is your mobo. what kind is it anyway or did i miss that? and whats your vcore at default?

 

[JWMiddleton]

Originally posted by: rise4310
12 to 13? what is "this" that you are measuring with?

the 12 at ± 5% should be 12.6-11.4v.

anyway, i do think it is your mobo. what kind is it anyway or did i miss that? and whats your vcore at default?

A very old Radio Shack 18-Range Multitester with an analog meter. A closer look would put it at +12.1 volts DC

Oh, the board? Guess I didn't mention that. It is a (cough, choke) ECS K8T890A. I got the bundle for $280, which means the board was free. I know, ya get what ya pay for! But, I have had decent luck with ECS boards in the past. My plan was to keep the board until I wanted to add another 6800 GS at which time I would buy an SLI board for someone like ASUS.

 

[rise]

ecs? no shame there, especially for free 🙂

i'd try updating the bios or just reflashing them.

 

[RaySun2Be]

All PS fans suck air up into them

not quite all of them. I have some older PS pulled from compaqs? or something that have big fans on them, and they blow into the case instead of blow out of the case. I usually flip the fans around (or use them for workbench testing). 🙂

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: RaySun2Be

All PS fans suck air up into them

not quite all of them. I have some older PS pulled from compaqs? or something that have big fans on them, and they blow into the case instead of blow out of the case. I usually flip the fans around (or use them for workbench testing). 🙂

The ATX spec has always had the fan blow out, IIRC, so I'm guessing they're AT PSUs.

 

[RaySun2Be]

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: RaySun2Be

All PS fans suck air up into them

not quite all of them. I have some older PS pulled from compaqs? or something that have big fans on them, and they blow into the case instead of blow out of the case. I usually flip the fans around (or use them for workbench testing). 🙂

The ATX spec has always had the fan blow out, IIRC, so I'm guessing they're AT PSUs.

Not AT, ATX.

And we all know that some companies had components made (including PS) that were customized just for them, so you couldn't really plug-n-play with standard off the shelf components. Think PII/early PIII days.

When I get a chance, I'll see if I can find one or two, and provide the specs.

 

[JWMiddleton]

Thanks for all the responses! The machine seems to be running fine, just the SW temp display that is an issue. As I said earlier, if it was really hitting 81c it would die. So, I will let it run a while longer and see what happens.

 

[LiquidImpulse]

Originally posted by: Freewolf
#1 Get an aftermarket HS/F
#2 is the machine showing any signs of being over heated when it is running?
At those temps there is no way the machine should be running normally unless the temp readings are false.