Hearings on the run up to war should begin immediately

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
No, no and no...any such hearings would drag for the next two years, and potentially hurt the Democrats' chances for taking the White House in 2008.

The Democrats need to focus on their vision for America's future.

The first step is documenting the present and the past to avoid repeating this nightmare. Clinton lied about a blowjob. Bush lied about why he caused the deaths of almost 3,000 American troops and the wounding or tens of thousands more. If we sweep that under the rug, we disgrace ourselves and memory of all those dead and wounded troops.

This is no witch hunt for two reasons:

1. There's no hunting to be done. We know exactly where they are, starting with 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue., Washington D.C.

2. These are not mythical witches. They are the monsters our parents warned us about. The same kinds of monstrous tyrants who stormed over Europe in the 30's and 40's with their egregious lies and dictatorial, murderous usurpation of powers.

Either we identify them as the monsters they are and document their crimes so future generations will know we meant to stand by our Constitution, or we let them slide and encourage others of their ilk to strike again at the next opportunity. :|

 

[piasabird]

Cheney has offerred to resign several times. It is the president that has mismanaged the militarty. The President is the Commander-In-Chief and he needs to take responsibility.

I think it is time to start planning a complete withdrawl.

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Are you interested in getting out of the Iraqi quagmire or digging up dirt?

first things first.

There is absolutely no reason both cannot proceed simultaneously. About half the country thinks this administration lied to get us into a possibly-illegal war, and that it continues to act illegally on several fronts. These concerns should be addressed, either to refute them or to bring accountability to the perpetrators if true.

That said, I disagree with the OP in that I don't think such an investigation precludes bipartisanship. While some Republicans may dig in their heels and resist an investigation out of blind partisan loyalty (or guilt, in some cases), I hope most will recognize the need to find the truth. They should support a fair and honest investigation. Similarly, the Democrats need to restrict their activities to a fair and honest investigation, not another Starr-style witch hunt. If they take the low road, they will likely pay for it in 2008, no matter how much "dirt" they find. I think Americans are fed up with petty partisan mudslinging.

I have no problem with uncovering the truth.

Spending enegry on digging up dirt (at this point) will be conterproductive. People will circle their wagons and finger pointing/stalling will occur.

Egos are going to get bruised.

Straightening up the drain on this coiuntry is more important than satisfying the ego of finger pointing (which seems to be the intentino of the OP in many of his posts).

The couintry was distracted by Iraq when we went after the Taliban. We have an economy to keep on track, fences to mend and a mess to get out of. There are not enough political resources to start a witchhunt at this point.

Remember, that the next 2 years will require political comprimises; the Republicans were wounded, not crushed. bush still controls the veto button which can impact the democrat agenda.

Let the radical Democrats loose and you will have the same scenario in reverse that has existed with the radical right recently.

Your response is a bit ambiguous. Do you support a "fair and honest investigation" (as opposed to a witch hunt), or do you consider any investigation improper?

 

[palehorse]

lol... i really hope that you guys can live without your witch-hunt because you're going to have to.

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: palehorse74
lol... i really hope that you guys can live without your witch-hunt because you're going to have to.

Yes dear, you've said that already. Anything substantive to add?

 

[ProfJohn]

Man instead of creating my post about Socialized Medicine I should have just sat back and waited for you guys to hang yourself.

Please, investigate and run amok for the next two years.

As I said last night:
Two years of ideas like this and Republicans will waltz back into power.

Obviously America voted for the Democrats so they can spend the next two years watching investigations and hearings...

BTW: Bill Clinton?s approval numbers went UP during the impeachment process? wonder what will happen to Bush?s? I would think that unless you unearth some REALLY damning evidence of Bush lying his numbers will go up too.

 

[slash196]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Are you interested in getting out of the Iraqi quagmire or digging up dirt?

first things first.

You know, we can do both at once. That's the miracle of government.

 

[slash196]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Man instead of creating my post about Socialized Medicine I should have just sat back and waited for you guys to hang yourself.

Please, investigate and run amok for the next two years.

As I said last night:
Two years of ideas like this and Republicans will waltz back into power.

Obviously America voted for the Democrats so they can spend the next two years watching investigations and hearings...

BTW: Bill Clinton?s approval numbers went UP during the impeachment process? wonder what will happen to Bush?s? I would think that unless you unearth some REALLY damning evidence of Bush lying his numbers will go up too.

You still seem to think that the majority of the country is as hard-nose and conservative as you. Republicans have blown it for the long term, buddy. I'd say you've probably got 14 or so years until you get the Congress back.

 

[slash196]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Man instead of creating my post about Socialized Medicine I should have just sat back and waited for you guys to hang yourself.

Please, investigate and run amok for the next two years.

As I said last night:
Two years of ideas like this and Republicans will waltz back into power.

Obviously America voted for the Democrats so they can spend the next two years watching investigations and hearings...

BTW: Bill Clinton?s approval numbers went UP during the impeachment process? wonder what will happen to Bush?s? I would think that unless you unearth some REALLY damning evidence of Bush lying his numbers will go up too.

You still seem to think that the majority of the country is as hard-nose and conservative as you. Republicans have blown it for the long term, buddy. I'd say you've probably got 14 or so years until you get the Congress back.

 

[trenchfoot]

so we should let bygones be bygones and forget every single crime that the administration and their lapdogs in congress have committed against the people in order to create an atmosphere of bipartisanship to get things done? is that a fair trade-off? if the roles were reversed, would it be viewed the same way?

where oh where was this spirit of bipartisanship before the elections? huh? right. absolutely not necessary. oh, but now that the shoe in on the other foot it's a really good thing. for whom? sheeeesh.

kind of reminds me of a condmened criminal demanding five-star living quarters in the presidential suite at The Plaza, NYC just to keep his image intact.

yeah, i can see the logic behind being bipartisan and how it will eventually benefit the people of the US, so let's add to that and think about how much better off we all would have been if the repubs took the high road and this "spirit of bipartisanship" was practiced by them for the last ~12 years in congress and the last six with them in full control.

realistically, sure, bipartisanship is the only way things are going to get done with the way things are now. however i don't think the repubs should get arrogant and demand any concessions from the dems now that they are out of power, when also considering how the dems weren't even being offered table scraps the last dozen or so years.

payback's a bitch. i agree, it does no good. but it's still a reality of life. egos were bruised. personal scores need to be settled. on the surface, public humiliation was cast down upon the dems with glee. the dems were looked upon as non-entities the entire time the repubs had full control. all of which requires some form of retribution.

sure, the dems in congress knew it was the price to pay for the arrogance they wielded against the repubs for the forty years they controlled both houses. is it not only fair then that the repubs understand that it's their turn again to pay for the way they've behaved.....and then some?

 

[Starbuck1975]

There's no hunting to be done. We know exactly where they are, starting with 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue., Washington D.C.

True statement.

These are not mythical witches. They are the monsters our parents warned us about. The same kinds of monstrous tyrants who stormed over Europe in the 30's and 40's with their egregious lies and dictatorial, murderous usurpation of powers.

Apples and oranges...I know those opposed to the NeoCon agenda like to evoke the imagery of Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini and everyone in between...one problem...the analogy doesn't work on a number of levels.

Usurpation of power??? Given that the Republicans just lost their majority position, and Rummy stepped down, I would contend that they didn't usurp much of anything.

Dictatorial...hardly...dictators tend not to recognize the will of the people, which our recent elections clearly communicated.

It is true that Bush and his advisors rather impetuously and quite foolishly marched the nation to war...it is true that they selectively used intelligence to make a case for the war in Iraq, but it was a war that, at the time, America seemed quite willing to fight...after 9/11, the mood of the nation seemed rather supportive of a military response...Bush, as the President, should have been the one to give pause and make the cautious decision...not give the mob what he thought it wanted...remember, the nations of Europe marched into WW1 almost with smiles on their faces.

payback's a bitch. i agree, it does no good. but it's still a reality of life. egos were bruised. personal scores need to be settled. on the surface, public humiliation was cast down upon the dems with glee. the dems were looked upon as non-entities the entire time the repubs had full control. all of which requires some form of retribution.
sure, the dems in congress knew it was the price to pay for the arrogance they wielded against the repubs for the forty years they controlled both houses. is it not only fair then that the repubs understand that it's their turn again to pay for the way they've behaved.....and then some?

Otherwise known as the schoolyard model for governance...I know you are but what am I...tooth for a tooth, eye for an eye...well he started it...whatever :roll:

 

[trenchfoot]

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975

There's no hunting to be done. We know exactly where they are, starting with 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue., Washington D.C.

True statement.

These are not mythical witches. They are the monsters our parents warned us about. The same kinds of monstrous tyrants who stormed over Europe in the 30's and 40's with their egregious lies and dictatorial, murderous usurpation of powers.

Apples and oranges...I know those opposed to the NeoCon agenda like to evoke the imagery of Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini and everyone in between...one problem...the analogy doesn't work on a number of levels.

Usurpation of power??? Given that the Republicans just lost their majority position, and Rummy stepped down, I would contend that they didn't usurp much of anything.

Dictatorial...hardly...dictators tend not to recognize the will of the people, which our recent elections clearly communicated.

It is true that Bush and his advisors rather impetuously and quite foolishly marched the nation to war...it is true that they selectively used intelligence to make a case for the war in Iraq, but it was a war that, at the time, America seemed quite willing to fight...after 9/11, the mood of the nation seemed rather supportive of a military response...Bush, as the President, should have been the one to give pause and make the cautious decision...not give the mob what he thought it wanted...remember, the nations of Europe marched into WW1 almost with smiles on their faces.

payback's a bitch. i agree, it does no good. but it's still a reality of life. egos were bruised. personal scores need to be settled. on the surface, public humiliation was cast down upon the dems with glee. the dems were looked upon as non-entities the entire time the repubs had full control. all of which requires some form of retribution.
sure, the dems in congress knew it was the price to pay for the arrogance they wielded against the repubs for the forty years they controlled both houses. is it not only fair then that the repubs understand that it's their turn again to pay for the way they've behaved.....and then some?

Otherwise known as the schoolyard model for governance...I know you are but what am I...tooth for a tooth, eye for an eye...well he started it...whatever :roll:

lol, good one starbuck. please allow me to quote you on that in the future.:thumbsup:

 

[tomywishbone]

The Dems are already being candyazzes. Did anybody see Nancy sitting with bush? She was all smiles & charm. Vomit.

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: palehorse74
lol... i really hope that you guys can live without your witch-hunt because you're going to have to.

Says you. I take your predictions/assumptions very very seriously...

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Man instead of creating my post about Socialized Medicine I should have just sat back and waited for you guys to hang yourself.

Please, investigate and run amok for the next two years.

As I said last night:
Two years of ideas like this and Republicans will waltz back into power.

Obviously America voted for the Democrats so they can spend the next two years watching investigations and hearings...

BTW: Bill Clinton?s approval numbers went UP during the impeachment process? wonder what will happen to Bush?s? I would think that unless you unearth some REALLY damning evidence of Bush lying his numbers will go up too.

LOL, who cares about Bush's approval rating at this point?

Who cares what you predict? Are you a Democrat? Then butt out and worry aboput yuour own party policies.

You've been wrong about everything so far anyway so no one here really gives a crap what you predict.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
No, no and no...any such hearings would drag for the next two years, and potentially hurt the Democrats' chances for taking the White House in 2008.

The Democrats need to focus on their vision for America's future.

Yeah, like Clinton's troubles hurt the Republican's chances. The best thing that could happen to this country would be to drag down the god damn corrupt administration we currently have ASAP.

The sight of some REAL political blood flowing might just wise up the rest of them damn crooks, for a little while anway.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Yeah, like Clinton's troubles hurt the Republican's chances. The best thing that could happen to this country would be to drag down the god damn corrupt administration we currently have ASAP. The sight of some REAL political blood flowing might just wise up the rest of them damn crooks, for a little while anway.

As many of you have pointed out on numerous occasions, no one died when Clinton lied...we are still a nation at war...American soldiers are dying everyday...there is a bit more at stake with Iraq...if the Democrats focus their attention on "getting the NeoCons", and not steering the nation towards an Iraq solution, it will hurt them politically.

Also, who are these crooks you keep talking about...the NeoCon leadership is an utter failure...no doubt about that...but incompetence is not grounds for impeachment.

 

[Ferocious]

God Bless America!

let the subpoenas flow!

 

[Infohawk]

Dems need to be careful. They have to manage the government in a way that keeps the blame for current problems where it belongs, with Bush and his supporters. Look at the argument EagleKeeper keeps posting in every thread: "Dems have two years to fix the mess Republicans created in 12 years, or else." Unfortunately, a lot of people think like him. The Dems best bet is to serve up moderate laws that Bush will vote down (like stem cell research) and then use those votes against the Republicans in 2008.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: palehorse74
lol... i really hope that you guys can live without your witch-hunt because you're going to have to.

Says you. I take your predictions/assumptions very very seriously...

I'm quoting Pelosi... she didn't lie to everyone, did she?

 

[Lemon law]

Few seem to understand how investigations of this nature work---but the basic formula is the same---you start out with the documents you can get--and start sweating the small guys.
The small guys---to save their skins give up other documents---and implicate their bosses---and by the time it gets up to Cheney---it does not matter if he testifies or not. Of course old Scotter Libby being already behind the eight ball does not help either---he has already been living under a cloud while his co-conspirators are living the good life.

How quickly we forget how Spiro Agnew went---just a quiet resignation---I suspect a coming neo-con purge will go the same way---one day they are there--and the next day they resign.

But those in the know watch the rats---deserting a sinking ship.

I suspect Gwb will spend his last two years watching as they pull his teeth one by one.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium
Cheney and Co. have been given a hard hard slap to the face by the American people, their agenda has been repudiated with the finality of a hammer blow. The Democrats need to begin putting the nightmare of Iraq behind us by investigating how it is we even ended up there and Osama was allowed to run free. I disagree with the notion that now all of a sudden we need "Bi-Partisanship" since the Republicans did nothing but lord it over the entire country for years. They've created the divisive, polarized and poisonous atmosphere in this country and now they have been sentenced and the punishment should begin now. They need a swift, sure comeuppance so that we may avoid such a travesty in the future.
Dems need to face forward and just run with it, ignore the catcalling right-wingers clamoring for "Bi-Partisanship" which is just the talk of the recently converted....

I nominate this post for most whimsicle post of the year.....damn funny too!!

 

[Red Dawn]

We should wait until after 2008 or we are out of Iraq, which ever comes first. Of course by that time Evil Dick's heart probably will have given out. We should also have a full Senate investigation into War Profiteering.

 

[Corbett]

IF we are going to have hearings on the run up to the war then they better subpoena every last one of the people who voted for the war. That inclues republicans AND democrats. I'm sick of people acting like GWB and Cheney were the only ones who said yes to this war.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Corbett
IF we are going to have hearings on the run up to the war then they better subpoena every last one of the people who voted for the war. That inclues republicans AND democrats. I'm sick of people acting like GWB and Cheney were the only ones who said yes to this war.

Take a chill pill, that should help alleviate your symptoms.

They led the way, they should have to answer for their decision. Anyway, if you have faith in the American system then you should have no worries about the outcome of any investigation. I'm sure it will be more precise and honest than the BS this Administration fed up to sell this war.