Healthcare: Turning Red to Blue?

[Fenixgoon]

https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/25/politics/kentucky-blue-wave-mcgrath-barr/index.html

the TLDR: healthcare is becoming a more and more important topic to people across the country. will this be the topic to turn red areas blue?

is it any surprise that when people lose health coverage, they realize how necessary it truly is, and how a single-payer system is likely to benefit everyone?

after leaving my last job, i was without health insurance for 3 months. in that span, i had a crohn's disease flare up that sent me to the ER. my bill was $14k for 1.5 days of care. i could have paid cash if needed, but a significant number of americans wouldn't be able to. as we saw that 40% of people can't afford a $400 emergency expense. luckily, COBRA is retroactive, so instead of costing me $14k, I paid maybe 2k between COBRA premiums and the applicable deductibles.

this experience completely changed my outlook on how health insurance should be run - and instead of viewing it like car insurance (a very frequent analogy), i saw it as something that should be completely portable regardless of employer or employment status - something that could easily by run by a single payer (the .gov, which already runs one of the largest healthcare organizations in the country anyway).

 

[IronWing]

We tried that in 2008. Instead of reforming healthcare, the Dems pooped out Obamacare, throwing the 2010 election back to the Reps. If the Dems had delivered healthcare reform, they would probably still hold Congress.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

We tried that in 2008. Instead of reforming healthcare, the Dems pooped out Obamacare, throwing the 2010 election back to the Reps. If the Dems had delivered healthcare reform, they would probably still hold Congress.

It was never the intention to create something one could rightly call healthcare reform. Heck, I remember the reaction when I said that was what we needed. "Corporate Shill" was pretty much the irrational response. But what was wanted was a political solution to a political cause and we got something like a three legged horse. It might be better than nothing, but not exactly close to to what people really need.

Oh well, there's always a chance with the next generation.

 

[darkswordsman17]

We tried that in 2008. Instead of reforming healthcare, the Dems pooped out Obamacare, throwing the 2010 election back to the Reps. If the Dems had delivered healthcare reform, they would probably still hold Congress.

You tried what? I don't think Obama claimed he would instigate medicare for all, just health care reform (which he did and the ACA was). And considering that Republicans won back Congress by screaming that Obama was a communist/socialist that was going to raise your taxes and institute death squads for his socialized health care, not sure how you can claim the rest with a straight face. The ACA doomed them because Americans chose to believe lies and bullshit, and medicare for all likely would have lost Obama a second term, and would have gotten Republican dominance and they would have likely torn it to pieces immediately.

What happened is Democrats sought a compromise on health care to get Republicans on board. Republicans decided to just go ahead go completely insane, just started spouting lies and getting extremist, which worked because Americans are often idiots that will listen to crazy people spouting bullshit instead of trying to be rational. But given time, they will see through the lies.

Its only after all the evidence that, while flawed, the ACA was helping tens of millions of Americans, and Republicans showing that they were just lying about everything they were saying with regards to health care (all the lies about the ACA, that they had a plan and weren't just trying to destroy the ACA because they hated Obama and Democrats, that they aren't despicable assholes who would gladly tell you to fuck off and die so that you don't cost them a penny more, how out of touch they were saying people were buying iPhones instead of health care while ignoring that health care for a single month costs many families more than iPhones so even if they didn't buy iPhones they still would struggle to afford health care; I'm sure I'm leaving out a hell of a lot too) and trying to run and hide while they worked to fuck millions of Americans over, that Americans got good and mad.

 

[theeedude]

Dems should place ads outside of hospitals. Nothing to focus the mind like the fear of family bankrupting medical bill.

 

[Josephus312]

Well I for one am in favor of Trumpcare for Trump voters and NHS for the rest of us.

They can opt out but they have to beg for forgiveness.

 

[sportage]

My neighbor has basically what amounts to total universal healthcare.
It's sounds awesome.
She is HIV pos from needle pricks from working at a dentist office, well as far as she can determine the source was.
She is not in the sex trade (her doctor asked her and she almost smacked him over the head).
She is not or has ever been a druggie (another question from her doctor).
All they can determine it had to be the needle pricks she got while as a dental hygienist.

Anywho....
She is on ADAP. The Ryan White program for hiv people. I think it's called ADAP...?
For her hiv meds, the donut hole cost was $900 first three months, then $800 fourth month and $150 the remaining months.
Now, ADAP pays for it all. She pays nothing.

She goes to a clinic for all her care including dental.
It's all paid for. Everything. She is billed -zero-.
All she pays for is her medicare, the parts A & B, and part D for drugs.
Her Part-D monthly premium is $20. Medicare $134. Supplement part is $103.
I have no idea what insurance companies she goes thru for the "Parts".
ADAP pays everything after they pay.
I think her Part-D pay something, but ADAP picks up whatever is left over.
And during the donut hole, that was $900 times 4 months. A huge chuck.
Again, she pays nothing other than her $20 Part-D premium to whomever.
Humama? Atena? Whomever.

If she needs a dentist, the clinic has one of the best dental clinics in the state as part of their services. She gets her dental work done, and ADAP pays for it all.
And I have seen those clinics everywhere. Covering the city.
I'm thinking she not only has ADAP, but possibly some other program as well thru the clinic?
But whatever it is, healthcare is something she need never worry about.
She simply takes her meds, and she is in all accounts as healthy as anyone.
Looks normal, a little thin but nothing too noticeable.
Her stats are good she says, and her virus is controlled.

Besides the HIV thing, THIS is how healthcare in America "COULD" and "SHOULD" work...
All-in-one clinics spread across cities and across America, and hospitals too naturally, where everything is provided to everyone.
And people pay nothing other than the tax that everyone pays.
Sales tax maybe, 15 cents.
A share thru income taxes, being a lot less than your average insurance premiums.
This is a system everyone could enjoy.
And the cost paid for thru taxes that would be affordable.
Screw our current "healthcare for profit" crapola system.

I probably make this sound simple but.... it could be done.
And everyone in America could have healthcare, dental, and hospital care under this system.
With everyone paying thru income tax and or sales tax, and the care clinics would be everywhere AND.... all NON-PROFIT.
Because healthcare should never be a "for-profit" system.
THAT is why it DOES NOT WORK!!!!!
And why it NEVER WILL.....
This new system would take some smart people to design.
People, NOT politicians. People detached from the money, and the special interest.
And that includes totally revamping the pharmaceutical industry into a non-profit system as well.

People say, if the pharmaceutical industry were non-profit, none would invest in research.
Really?
I highly doubt that.
Even under a non-profit pharmaceutical system, there would still be plenty of incentive for research.
Don't let anyone tell you different.
And heck.... just maybe they'd start "curing" some of these illnesses instead of only creating life long "treatments" where the person must take a daily pill.... FOREVER.
I remember a time when the drug companies actually "cured" stuff, illness.
That was before the $$$ and lobbyist and politics came into play.
If polio were an issue today, we'd not have had a cure but instead a "pill" that polio victims must take FOEVER the rest of their natural lives to survive.
Thank god things were different in America during those polio days.

Not only does ADAP and the non-profit clinics have some of the best high tech treatments, they also focus on preventive healthcare as well.
Which should always be part of healthcare.
My neighbor attends wellness groups where they teach people how to "cook" and eat healthy.
She even invited me to her "healthy crock-pot cooking" class.
I didn't go, but they teach how to take advantage of simple crock-pot cooking AND with cooking the healthy meals.

THIS COULD BE our healthcare system of today, if not for the.... f**king GREED!
The greed and the money and the politics AND the power.
No... I wouldn't suggest people get HIV to take advantage of universal healthcare in America, but for those that are HIV they have as close as it gets in America.
And that system works!
This could be our model for all healthcare. For creating true universal healthcare.
But unless one has HIV, we will never see universal healthcare in our lifetime.
Not in America.
Greed, pharmaceuticals, lobbyist and politics rule the day.
And the people?
Yep! They fall for the con game election after election.
Shet... Obama tried a smidgen of reform, and look at the hell that systems faced.
Face it. The power and the money does NOT want Americans to enjoy universal healthcare... EVER.
Really really sad.....

 

[NTMBK]

https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/25/politics/kentucky-blue-wave-mcgrath-barr/index.html

the TLDR: healthcare is becoming a more and more important topic to people across the country. will this be the topic to turn red areas blue?

is it any surprise that when people lose health coverage, they realize how necessary it truly is, and how a single-payer system is likely to benefit everyone?

after leaving my last job, i was without health insurance for 3 months. in that span, i had a crohn's disease flare up that sent me to the ER. my bill was $14k for 1.5 days of care. i could have paid cash if needed, but a significant number of americans wouldn't be able to. as we saw that 40% of people can't afford a $400 emergency expense. luckily, COBRA is retroactive, so instead of costing me $14k, I paid maybe 2k between COBRA premiums and the applicable deductibles.

this experience completely changed my outlook on how health insurance should be run - and instead of viewing it like car insurance (a very frequent analogy), i saw it as something that should be completely portable regardless of employer or employment status - something that could easily by run by a single payer (the .gov, which already runs one of the largest healthcare organizations in the country anyway).

Crohn's disease is absolutely horrible- I've got a family member who suffers with it, and has had to have chunks of her guts removed due to it. I shudder to think what her healthcare costs would be like if we were unfortunate enough to live in the US. (Thankfully we're British, so we have universal healthcare, like any other civilised society.) You have my sympathy, OP.

 

[pauldun170]

We tried that in 2008. Instead of reforming healthcare, the Dems pooped out Obamacare, throwing the 2010 election back to the Reps. If the Dems had delivered healthcare reform, they would probably still hold Congress.

The dems pushed single payer. I remember very clearly how every.single.fucking.republican in government, the media and on the internet shat out bullshit talking points about socialism and nonsense about government make medical decisions and and what ever else retard email forward got passed around.

How exactly were they going to get anything through?

 

[Genx87]

The dems pushed single payer. I remember very clearly how every.single.fucking.republican in government, the media and on the internet shat out bullshit talking points about socialism and nonsense about government make medical decisions and and what ever else retard email forward got passed around.

How exactly were they going to get anything through?

I honestly think single payer is an easier sell than ACA. Medicare for all sounds a lot nicer than being forced to buy from a private provider or face tax fines. The irony is many of the GOP base are fat trogs who would benefit greatly from a single payer system. Where all they have to do is be born to be eligible. They'd think it was free as well because there is no premium.

 

[kage69]

Absolutely it is. And I am loving all the Buyer's Remorse I'm hearing. Means this November is going to be juicy.

The tax "overhaul," healthcare, obstruction of justice; many people on the right are starting to notice their leg is wet but it ain't raining. Gives me hope.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Crohn's disease is absolutely horrible- I've got a family member who suffers with it, and has had to have chunks of her guts removed due to it. I shudder to think what her healthcare costs would be like if we were unfortunate enough to live in the US. (Thankfully we're British, so we have universal healthcare, like any other civilised society.) You have my sympathy, OP.

i'm very lucky in that i have virtually no symptoms, even though the clinical diagnosis is "moderate to severe". if i had to pay the cash price for my medication, it would cost me 40k/yr (yes there are programs to reduce the price...but why not just make it more affordable for everyone, period? oh right, thanks capitalism)

 

[ivwshane]

We tried that in 2008. Instead of reforming healthcare, the Dems pooped out Obamacare, throwing the 2010 election back to the Reps. If the Dems had delivered healthcare reform, they would probably still hold Congress.

Not true at all. The dems lost Congress because they didn't even bother running a candidate in most areas let alone candidates for the local elections. Those that voted against health care also lost at a higher rate than those that voted for health care reform. Polling was split on health care. Democrats also didn't turn out to vote.
Lets not forget about the tea party movement and big money (ala citizens united) and the amount of propaganda being pushed.

To say that Democrats lost in 2010 because of health care is pretty naïve.

 

[ivwshane]

The dems pushed single payer. I remember very clearly how every.single.fucking.republican in government, the media and on the internet shat out bullshit talking points about socialism and nonsense about government make medical decisions and and what ever else retard email forward got passed around.

How exactly were they going to get anything through?

We didn't get single payer because of one senator, Lieberman. Fuck that guy.

 

[IronWing]

As posters above have pointed out, the Dems compromised and compromised and then passed the bill w/o a single Rep vote. In other words, they couldn't get the Reps on board but still chose to pass the Heritage Foundation's corporatist healthcare agenda instead of not worrying about the Reps and passing the bill they were elected to pass. Of course the Dem base stayed home in 2010 after the Dems sold out.

 

[dank69]

As posters above have pointed out, the Dems compromised and compromised and then passed the bill w/o a single Rep vote. In other words, they couldn't get the Reps on board but still chose to pass the Heritage Foundation's corporatist healthcare agenda instead of not worrying about the Reps and passing the bill they were elected to pass. Of course the Dem base stayed home in 2010 after the Dems sold out.

As ivwshane pointed out, one Senator: Lieberman, blocked the public option. Dems couldn't pass it on their own. One vote shy. Of course America decided the solution wasn't to put more Democrats in power but to give control back to the GOP. Brilliant.

 

[Jhhnn]

Nobody said the ACA is perfect. OTOH, coverage was extended to 18M Americans who didn't have it & shitty exclusionary policies were eliminated.

It's a pretty straightforward proposition to move in the direction of truly universal coverage. Well, except Republicans. We'll necessarily have to raise taxes, particularly at the top, if we're to have that. They're adamantly opposed. They'd rather loot the Treasury to prevent it.

 

[BAMAVOO]

https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/25/politics/kentucky-blue-wave-mcgrath-barr/index.html

the TLDR: healthcare is becoming a more and more important topic to people across the country. will this be the topic to turn red areas blue?

is it any surprise that when people lose health coverage, they realize how necessary it truly is, and how a single-payer system is likely to benefit everyone?

after leaving my last job, i was without health insurance for 3 months. in that span, i had a crohn's disease flare up that sent me to the ER. my bill was $14k for 1.5 days of care. i could have paid cash if needed, but a significant number of americans wouldn't be able to. as we saw that 40% of people can't afford a $400 emergency expense. luckily, COBRA is retroactive, so instead of costing me $14k, I paid maybe 2k between COBRA premiums and the applicable deductibles.

this experience completely changed my outlook on how health insurance should be run - and instead of viewing it like car insurance (a very frequent analogy), i saw it as something that should be completely portable regardless of employer or employment status - something that could easily by run by a single payer (the .gov, which already runs one of the largest healthcare organizations in the country anyway).

So the choice was not to get healthcare, but it is the government's fault. That's not how any of this works.

 

[blankslate]

We tried that in 2008. Instead of reforming healthcare, the Dems pooped out Obamacare, throwing the 2010 election back to the Reps. If the Dems had delivered healthcare reform, they would probably still hold Congress.

Because of the republican's reaction to the attempt by Sen/Sec of State Clinton to actually try and implement single payer (which medicare for all would be some version of) President Obama used the at that time in the 90's the republican counter-proposal as the basis for the ACA.

Because Obama thought that basing the ACA on a plan from a republican think tank might convince some republicans to support the ACA... of course being the reasonable people they are some repubs did suppo... of course they didn't it was an effing crap-show... no way in hell were the repubs going to deal with health care reform in good faith c'mon really?!

Repubs don't care that profit health care has allowed thousands per year to go broke due to medical bills or actually die due to lack of health care.

If the Dems pooped out Obamacare aka the ACA it was because the Repubs forced them to eat crap for trying to base a plan on a conservative proposal for no other reason than it was again in 2009 proposed by a democratic president instead of a conservative congressman...
https://khn.org/022310-bill-comparison/

The current state of Health care is not only on the shoulders of the dems it is also on the shoulders of the repubs who would likely have objected to any proposal to expand health care put forth by any dem. Why else oppose the ACA which was similar to a republican proposal from 1993.



_________________

 

[Dulanic]

I hate US Healthcare. I'm on a medication that costs over 60k a year. That's sick. If I ever lose my job I'm completely fucked. I've had constant insurance since birth.... It scares the shit out of me.

And fuck free market, if I had to get insurance outside of my employer it would cost me over 1000 a month and that's with a 15,000 deductible and then only 50% coverage and a 20,000 out of pocket max. Aka it would cost me 30k+ a year. And I not once had a lapse in coverage.

It's all a damn joke. Who can afford that? That's more than I pay per year for my house.

Once you get a chronic disease you're screwed even if you had insurance.

 

[Muse]

The dems pushed single payer. I remember very clearly how every.single.fucking.republican in government, the media and on the internet shat out bullshit talking points about socialism and nonsense about government make medical decisions and and what ever else retard email forward got passed around.

How exactly were they going to get anything through?

Where I live Republicans are about as common as skunks and probably pretty much shunned as much if outed. I used to think of myself as someone who could get along with the great majority of people in this country, no matter where they are, but seeing all the red states on the POTUS election smorgasbord has been enough to make me think that there are vast areas of the land I don't want to be.

It took me many years to get to the point where I had health insurance with my employment. My two longest jobs I had that but didn't see a single doctor. I didn't take any vacations either. When my last full time employer farmed my services out to India and showed me the door I had to bitch to the CEO to get them to pay me for the vacation time I'd accrued. Someone then told me about COBRA and I got on it, I had some health issues, found a primary care physician. Just as my COBRA was about to run out that doctor told me that I had a condition that needed attention. A local lab bungled my blood test and failed to admit it. The results came months after they were supposed to and by the time they finally came my COBRA was just about to run out and a specialist said I needed surgery immediately... no COBRA!!! If I'd had a lawyer I probably would have sued the lab, but I'm not built that way. I scrambled and got insurance, had my outpatient surgery, gagged on the bill (they tried to charge me many thousands of dollars to which they weren't entitled).

Now I'm on Medicare. Medicare is some very complex shit. Get ahold of a Medicare information publication of substance and you will see what I mean.

I agree that it's the capitalism in the healthcare field that is fucking things up. Big pharma, the insurance companies, their lobbyists, the rank power brokers with senators in their pockets.

 

[woolfe9998]

Not true at all. The dems lost Congress because they didn't even bother running a candidate in most areas let alone candidates for the local elections. Those that voted against health care also lost at a higher rate than those that voted for health care reform. Polling was split on health care. Democrats also didn't turn out to vote.
Lets not forget about the tea party movement and big money (ala citizens united) and the amount of propaganda being pushed.

To say that Democrats lost in 2010 because of health care is pretty naïve.

A lot of commentators on the far left were bashing the ACA as corporate welfare for health insurance companies. It was non-stop on MSN. It's a good bet that weakened dem turnout. Might have even gotten Scott Brown elected in Mass.

 

[ivwshane]

A lot of commentators on the far left were bashing the ACA as corporate welfare for health insurance companies. It was non-stop on MSN. It's a good bet that weakened dem turnout. Might have even gotten Scott Brown elected in Mass.

The numbers don't back that up. Obviously 2008 is an anomaly but even 2010 was higher than previous trends for Democrats. Also note that in 2010 Republicans destroyed their historical trends for turnout.

 

[TheVrolok]

I hate US Healthcare. I'm on a medication that costs over 60k a year. That's sick. If I ever lose my job I'm completely fucked. I've had constant insurance since birth.... It scares the shit out of me.

And fuck free market, if I had to get insurance outside of my employer it would cost me over 1000 a month and that's with a 15,000 deductible and then only 50% coverage and a 20,000 out of pocket max. Aka it would cost me 30k+ a year. And I not once had a lapse in coverage.

It's all a damn joke. Who can afford that? That's more than I pay per year for my house.

Once you get a chronic disease you're screwed even if you had insurance.

I find it disgusting that we find it acceptable for people to be so restrained by their employment by way of health insurance. It's a rigged system.

 

[Bitek]

It's a mess. I know someone who had a workplace injury and ongoing medical issues and caught in-between workman's comp insurance and regular health insurance fighting over who isn't going to pay.

Meanwhile lawyer's have had to be hired to get anything done, which has always been minimal.

Making it worse, the ongoing injury is making it hard to work to full potential, so pay and career is damaged.

They could sue the employer, but that's the nuclear option and would have damaging consequences.

That's just one person I know. Plenty of other insurance company horror stories.

Rs scream evil socialism, but this system is dreadful and ineffective. Doing nothing is the worst case outcome.