Health Insurers Now Have To Take Their Medicine

[lothar]

This plot tells you just about everything you need to know about what's wrong with health care in America:

In case you're wondering, that spike for the United States isn't due to "malpractice abuse" (we know that malpractice-related costs - including defensive medicine - are less than 1/2 of 1% of total health care costs in America). No, a BIG portion of that spike is profit. And the insurance companies and their right-wing politicians are desperately trying to scare the American public about Obamacare so that they can keep theit current system and continue to pocket their unconscionable profits.

So does this plot also tell you everything you need to know about what's right with health care in Cuba?
Cuba has the best health care system? Lol...

 

[fskimospy]

So does this plot also tell you everything you need to know about what's right with health care in Cuba?
Cuba has the best health care system? Lol...

For a country with a GDP per capita just a bit more than 10% of the US, achieving equal life expectancy isn't half bad.

 

[Spikesoldier]

So does this plot also tell you everything you need to know about what's right with health care in Cuba?
Cuba has the best health care system? Lol...

pretty easy to have low healthcare costs when youre a communist state.

 

[fskimospy]

pretty easy to have low healthcare costs when youre a communist state.

Yeah, but their outcomes are pretty impressive as well, considering they spend about $250 per person per year. I'm not advocating that we emulate their health care system, but of all the reasons to criticize the way they run their country, that one seems odd.

 

[Spikesoldier]

Yeah, but their outcomes are pretty impressive as well, considering they spend about $250 per person per year. I'm not advocating that we emulate their health care system, but of all the reasons to criticize the way they run their country, that one seems odd.

wasnt a criticism, rather commenting that healthcare can be provided at a much lower cost when the ownership of the modes of production, the free market system, emphasis on profits, and innovation are taken out of play.

healthcare is profitable because it capitalizes on a natural instinct - to survive.

heres the main problem with HC in america in two easy steps:

1. americans want THE BEST (most advanced, etc) HC

2. americans want it CHEAP/FREE

you have to find middle ground, you can't have both.

 

[Throckmorton]

wasnt a criticism, rather commenting that healthcare can be provided at a much lower cost when the ownership of the modes of production, the free market system, emphasis on profits, and innovation are taken out of play.

healthcare is profitable because it capitalizes on a natural instinct - to survive.

heres the main problem with HC in america in two easy steps:

1. americans want THE BEST (most advanced, etc) HC

2. americans want it CHEAP/FREE

you have to find middle ground, you can't have both.

But we pay the most for the worst healthcare in the developed world...

 

[Spikesoldier]

But we pay the most for the worst healthcare in the developed world...

all subjective. objectively, were on the bleeding edge of tech and innovation compared to the rest of the world.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

wasnt a criticism, rather commenting that healthcare can be provided at a much lower cost when the ownership of the modes of production, the free market system, emphasis on profits, and innovation are taken out of play.

healthcare is profitable because it capitalizes on a natural instinct - to survive.

heres the main problem with HC in america in two easy steps:

1. americans want THE BEST (most advanced, etc) HC

2. americans want it CHEAP/FREE

you have to find middle ground, you can't have both.

Say what? No emphasis on innovation in Cuba? Are you even familiar with Cuba's medical system.

Start with CIMAVAX-EGF. Then their Hep-B vaccine. Also look into their other cancer work. Cuba is quite innovative all things considered.

 

[RocksteadyDotNet]

all subjective. objectively, were on the bleeding edge of tech and innovation compared to the rest of the world.

That's some great data you have there.

 

[Throckmorton]

all subjective. objectively, were on the bleeding edge of tech and innovation compared to the rest of the world.

Look at the life expectancy graph

 

[Spikesoldier]

Look at the life expectancy graph

Look at your fellow americans and realize that the average one is likely to be an obese slob engaging in an unhealthy lifestyle. Do you think that lifestyle choices or *gasp* culture, may have anything to do with LE?

 

[Spikesoldier]

Say what? No emphasis on innovation in Cuba? Are you even familiar with Cuba's medical system.

Start with CIMAVAX-EGF. Then their Hep-B vaccine. Also look into their other cancer work. Cuba is quite innovative all things considered.

Not sure. Did the state develop those drugs, or did a private, for profit entity do that?

I've got my money on the former considering it is a communist state. But then again, I am no expert on Cuba. Enlighten me.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Not sure. Did the state develop those drugs, or did a private, for profit entity do that?

I've got my money on the former considering it is a communist state. But then again, I am no expert on Cuba. Enlighten me.

Cuba does it all on its own, entirely in house.

 

[the DRIZZLE]

That's some great data you have there.

I can dig up some data tomorrow but you can look at mortality rates for various cancers and things like that and see that we have the best care in world. That being said we pay a huge premium for it and we will need either give up some quality or quantity to get the costs down to a level closer to other first world countries because we really can't afford it.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

I can dig up some data tomorrow but you can look at mortality rates for various cancers and things like that and see that we have the best care in world. That being said we pay a huge premium for it and we will need either give up some quality or quantity to get the costs down to a level closer to other first world countries because we really can't afford it.

What sad to me is for all the medical innovation and resources the U.S. ranks last out of what I believe was 19 countries for preventable deaths. Primarily from the obvious lack of access to treatment but also the inability of many to afford to maintain chronic conditions. Every thing they need to survive is there. They just can't reach it.

Tout the greatness all you want but that seems inexcusable to me.

 

[RocksteadyDotNet]

I can dig up some data tomorrow but you can look at mortality rates for various cancers and things like that and see that we have the best care in world. That being said we pay a huge premium for it and we will need either give up some quality or quantity to get the costs down to a level closer to other first world countries because we really can't afford it.

The life expectancy of an normal body mass American is lower than that of many western countrys.

 

[the DRIZZLE]

What sad to me is for all the medical innovation and resources the U.S. ranks last out of what I believe was 19 countries for preventable deaths. Primarily from the obvious lack of access to treatment but also the inability of many to afford to maintain chronic conditions. Every thing they need to survive is there. They just can't reach it.

Tout the greatness all you want but that seems inexcusable to me.

I seriously doubt access to healthcare is why we rank poorly. Before Obamacare only 10-15% of the population didn't have health insurance with about 1/3 of them being illegal immigrants and another 1/3 being eligible for some form of insurance either through their employer or government assistant but opting not to take it. If you were in the 5% of the population was poor but not poor enough for Medicaid then it sucked but pretty much everyone else did OK.

 

[RocksteadyDotNet]

I seriously doubt access to healthcare is why we rank poorly. Before Obamacare only 10-15% of the population didn't have health insurance with about 1/3 of them being illegal immigrants and another 1/3 being eligible for some form of insurance either through their employer or government assistant but opting not to take it. If you were in the 5% of the population was poor but not poor enough for Medicaid then it sucked but pretty much everyone else did OK.

Can someone explain what happens with uninsured people get cancer, or some shit?

I get that E.R.'s are required to treat people if they come in, but that's just for emergencys.

What happens if you need Chemo and other crazy shit? Are hospitals requried to give it to you because you'll die without it? How does that work? You're not dying that very second, but you need treatment.

Is this where Medicaid comes in?

Edit: Basically, did Mr White really need to start selling meth?

 

[cubby1223]

In case you're wondering, that spike for the United States isn't due to "malpractice abuse" (we know that malpractice-related costs - including defensive medicine - are less than 1/2 of 1% of total health care costs in America). No, a BIG portion of that spike is profit. And the insurance companies and their right-wing politicians are desperately trying to scare the American public about Obamacare so that they can keep theit current system and continue to pocket their unconscionable profits.

Prove it. I'll provide you with some helpful links:
http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=health+insurance+profit+margins

 

[the DRIZZLE]

Can someone explain what happens with uninsured people get cancer, or some shit?

I get that E.R.'s are required to treat people if they come in, but that's just for emergencys.

What happens if you need Chemo and other crazy shit? Are hospitals requried to give it to you because you'll die without it? How does that work? You're not dying that very second, but you need treatment.

Is this where Medicaid comes in?

Edit: Basically, did Mr White really need to start selling meth?

Pre-Obamacare one of two things would happen. If you were poor enough the government would pay for it through Medicaid. If you weren't poor enough you paid for it out of pocket until you were poor enough to qualify.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

I seriously doubt access to healthcare is why we rank poorly. Before Obamacare only 10-15% of the population didn't have health insurance with about 1/3 of them being illegal immigrants and another 1/3 being eligible for some form of insurance either through their employer or government assistant but opting not to take it. If you were in the 5% of the population was poor but not poor enough for Medicaid then it sucked but pretty much everyone else did OK.

I'd love to know where those numbers are coming from. In 2006 the Kaiser Commission put out a report on the uninsured and Medicaid showing 79% of the uninsured were citizens.

Only 5% poor but not poor enough for Medicaid? Source for that please. Here's mine.

http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Stories/2009/July/01/Medicaid-True-or-False.aspx

2. If you're poor enough, Medicaid will cover your health care needs.

False. Medicaid covers about 45 percent of poor Americans, defined as those with incomes below the federal poverty level (about $22,000 for a family of four). To be eligible for coverage, individuals must fall below certain income thresholds, which vary by state, and belong to certain categories, such as having dependent children, or being pregnant or disabled. In 20 states, a parent in a family of four who gets paid the federal minimum wage makes too much to qualify. Only 18 states cover adults without dependent children.

 

[the DRIZZLE]

I'd love to know where those numbers are coming from. In 2006 the Kaiser Commission put out a report on the uninsured and Medicaid showing 79% of the uninsured were citizens.

Only 5% poor but not poor enough for Medicaid? Source for that please. Here's mine.

http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Stories/2009/July/01/Medicaid-True-or-False.aspx

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/06/the-real-uninsured/

This article on Factcheck does a good job of breaking it down. They cite a lot of data from the same source you are using.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/06/the-real-uninsured/

This article on Factcheck does a good job of breaking it down. They cite a lot of data from the same source you are using.

That doesn't at all say what you stated. They confirm the fact that 79% are citizens but go on to say that the 21% noncitizens includes both legal and illegal immigrants. Clearly not a third of all uninsured are illegal immigrants. Not even close. They also seem to support that it is far more than 5% who are poor but ineligible for Medicaid.

Here's a link to the most recent Kaiser report for 2010, post recession, which paints and even bleaker picture.

http://www.kff.org/uninsured/7451.cfm

Edit: the data tables give a breakdown of percentages covered by what.

 

[the DRIZZLE]

That doesn't at all say what you stated. They confirm the fact that 79% are citizens but go on to say that the 21% noncitizens includes both legal and illegal immigrants. Clearly not a third of all uninsured are illegal immigrants. Not even close. They also seem to support that it is far more than 5% who are poor but ineligible for Medicaid.

Here's a link to the most recent Kaiser report for 2010, post recession, which paints and even bleaker picture.

http://www.kff.org/uninsured/7451.cfm

Edit: the data tables give a breakdown of percentages covered by what.

I was too high on the number of illegals but I was actually too low in the number of people that could get insurance if they wanted to so it's a wash. Of the 46 million (2007 numbers) uninsured 12 million are eligible for government coverage. 5 million are illegal immigrants. That leaves 29 million people. 33% of the 46 million make more than 200% of the federal poverty level. If we assume no overlap with the 12 million who were eligible for government coverage (which makes sense) that brings us down to 14 million legitimately uninsured or about 5% of the population.

edit: I didn't even consider people who have reasonably priced coverage available to them through their employer but decline it which would further reduce the number.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

I was too high on the number of illegals but I was actually too low in the number of people that could get insurance if they wanted to so it's a wash. Of the 46 million (2007 numbers) uninsured 12 million are eligible for government coverage. 5 million are illegal immigrants. That leaves 29 million people. 33% of the 46 million make more than 200% of the federal poverty level. If we assume no overlap with the 12 million who were eligible for government coverage (which makes sense) that brings us down to 14 million legitimately uninsured or about 5% of the population.

Again, have a look at the tables of the 2010 report for just 100% of poverty line and below. There are tens of millions of truly poor not covered by a private or public optionS. That's the lack of access I was referencing.