Health insurance companies are our friends.

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
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http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE62G2DO20100317

Insurer targeted HIV patients to drop coverage

In May, 2002, Jerome Mitchell, a 17-year old college freshman from rural South Carolina, learned he had contracted HIV. The news, of course, was devastating, but Mitchell believed that he had one thing going for him: On his own initiative, in anticipation of his first year in college, he had purchased his own health insurance.

Shortly after his diagnosis, however, his insurance company, Fortis, revoked his policy. Mitchell was told that without further treatment his HIV would become full-blown AIDS within a year or two and he would most likely die within two years after that.

So he hired an attorney -- not because he wanted to sue anyone; on the contrary, the shy African-American teenager expected his insurance was canceled by mistake and would be reinstated once he set the company straight.

But Fortis, now known as Assurant Health, ignored his attorney's letters, as they had earlier inquiries from a case worker at a local clinic who was helping him. So Mitchell sued.

In 2004, a jury in Florence County, South Carolina, ordered Assurant Health, part of Assurant Inc, to pay Mitchell $15 million for wrongly revoking his heath insurance policy. In September 2009, the South Carolina Supreme Court upheld the lower court's verdict, although the court reduced the amount to be paid him to $10 million.

By winning the verdict against Fortis, Mitchell not only obtained a measure of justice for himself; he also helped expose wrongdoing on the part of Fortis that could have repercussions for the entire health insurance industry.

Previously undisclosed records from Mitchell's case reveal that Fortis had a company policy of targeting policyholders with HIV. A computer program and algorithm targeted every policyholder recently diagnosed with HIV for an automatic fraud investigation, as the company searched for any pretext to revoke their policy. As was the case with Mitchell, their insurance policies often were canceled on erroneous information, the flimsiest of evidence, or for no good reason at all, according to the court documents and interviews with state and federal investigators.


Cliffs:
Insurance company targeted people with HIV using computer algorithms in an attempt to find a reason to cancel their policies.

Often they would cancel the policy for no reason.


Let this be a warning. If they are doing this for HIV you better believe they are doing this for other conditions.
 

MJinZ

Diamond Member
Nov 4, 2009
8,192
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no please, kthx

Seriously, all that is needed is reform. Reform with policy improvements to force the hands of the states. Works for auto insurance.

No such thing. As long as your health is in the worst interest of their profits, then you're already fucked. In the ass. To begin with.
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,567
969
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yep.

"We would rather put the money towards bettering our children's education than helping out homosexual drug users."

Not everyone with AIDs is a homosexual drug user. And I guess you're okay with insurance companies preying on people? Fuck the poor and the ill, gotta keep that stock price up!
 

MJinZ

Diamond Member
Nov 4, 2009
8,192
0
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Not everyone with AIDs is a homosexual drug user. And I guess you're okay with insurance companies preying on people? Fuck the poor and the ill, gotta keep that stock price up!

And most gay people are not drug users. I think studies have found gay guys to have the highest of everything (intelligence, average income etc).
 

rudeguy

Lifer
Dec 27, 2001
47,351
14
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Not everyone with AIDs is a homosexual drug user. And I guess you're okay with insurance companies preying on people? Fuck the poor and the ill, gotta keep that stock price up!

I wasn't generalizing...I was quoting a future quote from some government agency's czar. At some point they are going to say, "Fuck the poor and the ill, gotta pay for <the war, roads, space program, $10k toilet seats>.

I don't trust the government to control my son's healthcare. They screw up every single thing they get their hands on and I don't want my son's life to be one of those.
 

Regs

Lifer
Aug 9, 2002
16,666
21
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Not everyone with AIDs is a homosexual drug user. And I guess you're okay with insurance companies preying on people? Fuck the poor and the ill, gotta keep that stock price up!

It's either free market or subsidizing. A car insurance company won't sell insurance to a blind man, and a poor lazy man or illegal immigrant is not going to pay taxes for your healthcare in other words. Cutting costs in healthcare is and should be the number one goal, but the only way to do that is by giving people a choice so that the natural forces of free market regulates itself.

It's really complicated. It all comes down to peoples fear of death and the fact no one wants to admit that they could die and sometimes horribly during anytime of day.
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
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It's either free market or subsidizing. A car insurance company won't sell insurance to a blind man, and a poor lazy man or illegal immigrant is not going to pay taxes for your healthcare in other words. Cutting costs in healthcare is and should be the number one goal, but the only way to do that is by giving people a choice so that the natural forces of free market regulates itself.

It's really complicated. It all comes down to peoples fear of death and the fact no one wants to admit that they could die and sometimes horribly during anytime of day.

The drive for profit can work out for everyone, if the market is shaped properly.
Like I stated before, use the auto insurance model.
States set their policies, multiple insurance companies are available to everyone, and fight for your dollar. Let the companies fight for you, and everyone can win.
When you don't take care of your body, you'll still be fought for, but at premium rates. Everyone has to have insurance, just... everyone is going to be billed differently. That's where the states come in and control the market accordingly.

edit:
and if a state wants their own public health care option, let them. Don't take it to the federal/national level though, it doesn't belong there. States should be able to do whatever they want in their market, provided it doesn't go against federal law.
But it works in everyone's interest to leave it to the state level, and it works in the state's interest if they keep it corporate but regulated.
 
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techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
28,559
4
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It's either free market or subsidizing. A car insurance company won't sell insurance to a blind man, and a poor lazy man or illegal immigrant is not going to pay taxes for your healthcare in other words. Cutting costs in healthcare is and should be the number one goal, but the only way to do that is by giving people a choice so that the natural forces of free market regulates itself.

It's really complicated. It all comes down to peoples fear of death and the fact no one wants to admit that they could die and sometimes horribly during anytime of day.

I just love it when someone thinks the 'free market' is the cure for everything, or that the free market will give you the best product.

It just shows the lack of education about economic systems in America. I remember being taught some kind of nonsense in grade school about how the free market gives us the best product at the lowest cost.
It wasn't until I got to college and took a real economics cost that I learned the free market makes the most money for the company that makes the product.
And that also means you get the cheapest product for the highest cost, if that makes the company the most money.

Funny how people scream free market, and when its pointed out that's exactly the reason companies will do things like screw the consumer, because it saves or makes them money, they reply the free market will fix the problem.

It's really just a propagandized public that goes around using the free market as the cure for everything.
 
May 16, 2000
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I wasn't generalizing...I was quoting a future quote from some government agency's czar. At some point they are going to say, "Fuck the poor and the ill, gotta pay for <the war, roads, space program, $10k toilet seats>.

I don't trust the government to control my son's healthcare. They screw up every single thing they get their hands on and I don't want my son's life to be one of those.

That's how I feel about private companies. In my experience they're ALWAYS wrong, acting ONLY for profits. At least government acts out of a positive reason, even if they do it less efficiently/effectively.
 
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GuitarDaddy

Lifer
Nov 9, 2004
11,465
1
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The drive for profit can work out for everyone, if the market is shaped properly.
Like I stated before, use the auto insurance model.
States set their policies, multiple insurance companies are available to everyone, and fight for your dollar. Let the companies fight for you, and everyone can win.
When you don't take care of your body, you'll still be fought for, but at premium rates. Everyone has to have insurance, just... everyone is going to be billed differently. That's where the states come in and control the market accordingly.

edit:
and if a state wants their own public health care option, let them. Don't take it to the federal/national level though, it doesn't belong there. States should be able to do whatever they want in their market, provided it doesn't go against federal law.
But it works in everyone's interest to leave it to the state level, and it works in the state's interest if they keep it corporate but regulated.

The bolded portion is where your argument is epic fail. You assume everyone with a chronic health problem didn't take care of their body, so its OK they pay x times the price of a healthy person.

So following your faulty argument if you have a kid who inherits a chronic health condition because he was unlucky enough to be born of your tainted genes, your OK with paying 5 times the price for his health insurance?
 

rudeguy

Lifer
Dec 27, 2001
47,351
14
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That's how I feel about private companies. In my experience they're ALWAYS wrong, acting ONLY for profits. At least government acts out of a positive reason, if they do it less efficiently/effectively.

LOL....what?

The government acts on behalf of the highest paying lobbyist. Take the money out of Washington and I would trust them. Until that time...let me take care of mine and you take care of yours.
 

MJinZ

Diamond Member
Nov 4, 2009
8,192
0
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I wasn't generalizing...I was quoting a future quote from some government agency's czar. At some point they are going to say, "Fuck the poor and the ill, gotta pay for <the war, roads, space program, $10k toilet seats>.

I don't trust the government to control my son's healthcare. They screw up every single thing they get their hands on and I don't want my son's life to be one of those.

The government is an entity of the commonality. A Corporation is entity designed to sell shit to people.

Their basic principles are completely the opposite of each other. The competency of one or the other is not questioned here, the private corporations working for self-gain is almost always more motivated to do so.

You have a choice - go with the "good" guy with less capabilities, or the bad guys who will fuck you over but can juggle three balls while pissing and analyzing your healthcare portfolio at the same time.

You can't change the bad, that is their nature, but you can work on competency of the good guys.
 

GuitarDaddy

Lifer
Nov 9, 2004
11,465
1
0
I wasn't generalizing...I was quoting a future quote from some government agency's czar. At some point they are going to say, "Fuck the poor and the ill, gotta pay for <the war, roads, space program, $10k toilet seats>.

I don't trust the government to control my son's healthcare. They screw up every single thing they get their hands on and I don't want my son's life to be one of those.


Sorry! Just because YOU have an unrational fear of the government, doesn't mean I should be subjected to a lack of coverage and or denials from for profit insurance companies just so your goboment boogie man doesn't keep you up at night.
 
Oct 16, 1999
10,490
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Sounds like the court system worked here. What's the problem?

If the court system actually worked then companies wouldn't fraudulently revoke people's coverage as a matter of policy. It may have worked in this case, but it must fail enough for them to get away with it profitably.
 

MJinZ

Diamond Member
Nov 4, 2009
8,192
0
0
LOL....what?

The government acts on behalf of the highest paying lobbyist. Take the money out of Washington and I would trust them. Until that time...let me take care of mine and you take care of yours.

And this is a social problem. The day that people decide they don't want to get fucked in the ass by Corporations influencing politics, is the day this will happen.

As with all social problems, the solution starts with one person.
 
May 16, 2000
13,522
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LOL....what?

The government acts on behalf of the highest paying lobbyist. Take the money out of Washington and I would trust them. Until that time...let me take care of mine and you take care of yours.

Governments exist only for the protection/betterment of their citizens. Rather or not the members of government have been corrupted, the core purpose of government remains the same: help the people. It is the only reason any government has existed since the dawn of time.

The core purpose of a corporation is to make money. Any positive benefits to individuals or society outside of that are only side effects or used as a catalyst to greater profits.

I prefer people who act from ideological reasons than those motivated by money, especially with regards to personal well being.

As for taking care of ourselves, we're prohibited from doing that by businesses/corporations/organizations/powerful individuals. Again, that's why government exists - to see that people are taken care of rather than exploited by others. If the system were such that we could take care of ourselves we'd be doing it already. Instead, companies extort us to the point where only a small percentage of the people can possibly care for themselves.
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
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So the system is working. Insurance company that cheated got punished by the legal system.