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Health care questions

Syringer

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
19,333
2
71
I've always been curious about but never understood..can we keep it non-political though?

1) If you get sick in the US, say you get cancer or need an operation, but don't have insurance and can't pay for it, what happens?

Are you just denied any sort of care, or is the medicine/treatment provided for you and then you get stuck with the bill? And if you can't/don't pay where do the taxes come from to pay for it?

2) If a visitor to the US gets sick or has to go to the hospital, are they obligated to have to pay for their services? If so what happens if they don't?

3) If a US citizen visits a foreign country with universal care..e.g. Canada, will you get treatment at no cost?
 
Oct 16, 1999
10,490
3
0
Emergencies will always get treated, when they get around to you. Chronic illnesses you are on your own with in the good ole USA. Don't know how your scenario in Canada works.
 

JM Aggie08

Diamond Member
Jan 3, 2006
7,639
352
126
Basically the way i see it, health care isn't a right, it's a benefit. But...let's keep giving handouts. Maybe one day everyone will be equal and rainbows will shoot out of my ass.
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,264
697
126
Bankruptcy and death are likely your only options...good luck getting insurance coverage anywhere after you've been diagnosed with cancer.
 

ObscureCaucasian

Diamond Member
Jul 23, 2006
3,934
0
0
1) ER can't turn you away. They have to treat you and if you have no insurance you have to foot the bill. This can lead to bankruptcy or whatever and the hospital does not get compensated.

2) Just like 1 they have to pay but most likely won't be able to

3) It depends on the country's plan and the citizens plan, but I doubt most countries will pay for non-citizens plans

This is all just my understanding of the system.
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,264
697
126
Basically the way i see it, health care isn't a right, it's a benefit. But...let's keep giving handouts. Maybe one day everyone will be equal and rainbows will shoot out of my ass.
How is it a handout if we're giving the same thing to everyone? It could also be argued that it lowers the burden on the rest of us because people aren't waiting until they are gravely ill to go to the hospital emergency room (which is the MOST expensive type of treatment).
 

Mr. Pedantic

Diamond Member
Feb 14, 2010
5,039
0
76
I remember reading on the Time article about the reform, how it says that insurance companies won't be allowed to remove coverage from an individual when he/she gets sick. Is that what insurance companies can go at the moment? They can say "oh, you've paid for healthcare insurance from us for years, but seeing as you now have IHD we're now not going to cover you anymore if you get a heart attack or need treatment for this"?

Basically the way i see it, health care isn't a right, it's a benefit. But...let's keep giving handouts. Maybe one day everyone will be equal and rainbows will shoot out of my ass.
It is a right. There's no such thing as the right to be healthy, but people do have the right to have access to healthcare.
 

Mike Gayner

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2007
6,175
3
0
I'm curious about the first point myself - I've never been able to come to grips with the fact that your Govt would basically let you die because you can't afford healthcare.

As for the next two points:

2) If a visitor to the US gets sick or has to go to the hospital, are they obligated to have to pay for their services? If so what happens if they don't?


3) If a US citizen visits a foreign country with universal care..e.g. Canada, will you get treatment at no cost?
Even here in NZ where we have universal healthcare, visitors are still expected to pay for their own health bills for non-accident illnesses. For controversial reasons I can't be bothered getting into, our healthcare system will pay bills for foreigners who have accidents requiring health care.
 

JM Aggie08

Diamond Member
Jan 3, 2006
7,639
352
126
I remember reading on the Time article about the reform, how it says that insurance companies won't be allowed to remove coverage from an individual when he/she gets sick. Is that what insurance companies can go at the moment? They can say "oh, you've paid for healthcare insurance from us for years, but seeing as you now have IHD we're now not going to cover you anymore if you get a heart attack or need treatment for this"?


It is a right. There's no such thing as the right to be healthy, but people do have the right to have access to healthcare.
How do you figure?
 

Syringer

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
19,333
2
71
1) ER can't turn you away. They have to treat you and if you have no insurance you have to foot the bill. This can lead to bankruptcy or whatever and the hospital does not get compensated.

2) Just like 1 they have to pay but most likely won't be able to

3) It depends on the country's plan and the citizens plan, but I doubt most countries will pay for non-citizens plans

This is all just my understanding of the system.
Re: #1 What about scenarios of cancer/disease where the ER isn't applicable? You're really just left to die, with no treatments at all? If you're in your last stages the ER will just reluctantly take you in until you die?
 

olds

Elite Member
Mar 3, 2000
49,842
557
126
I remember reading on the Time article about the reform, how it says that insurance companies won't be allowed to remove coverage from an individual when he/she gets sick. Is that what insurance companies can go at the moment? They can say "oh, you've paid for healthcare insurance from us for years, but seeing as you now have IHD we're now not going to cover you anymore if you get a heart attack or need treatment for this"?


It is a right. There's no such thing as the right to be healthy, but people do have the right to have access to healthcare.
Where, exactly, is that in the Bill Of Rights?
 

Mr. Pedantic

Diamond Member
Feb 14, 2010
5,039
0
76
Where, exactly, is that in the Bill Of Rights?
It's article 25 of the UDHR. Admittedly it's not in your Bill of Rights, but I have to say that if you take the Bill as the be all and end all of American rights, it falls short by a long margin.

And nobody's answered my first question yet.
 

ObscureCaucasian

Diamond Member
Jul 23, 2006
3,934
0
0
It is a right. There's no such thing as the right to be healthy, but people do have the right to have access to healthcare.
There are a few schools of thought on this, for example some would say smoking, drinking, doing drugs, and overeating are all things that would forfeit your right to be healthy, since they are all things that are self inflicted and have known adverse health effects.

Is it right to smoke 3 packs a day for 40 years and then expect someone else to help foot the bill for the lung cancer you brought on yourself?

Also a "right" something that everyone is entitled to without cost. Healthcare is a service where other people who have extensive training try to cure illnesses for fix damaged parts of your body. Now my problem with calling healthcare a "right" is that you're essentially saying that you're entitled to have access to someone else's time and knowledge for no charge, and this definition dances dangerously close to that of slavery.
 

Mr. Pedantic

Diamond Member
Feb 14, 2010
5,039
0
76
There are a few schools of thought on this, for example some would say smoking, drinking, doing drugs, and overeating are all things that would forfeit your right to be healthy, since they are all things that are self inflicted and have known adverse health effects.

Is it right to smoke 3 packs a day for 40 years and then expect someone else to help foot the bill for the lung cancer you brought on yourself?

Also a "right" something that everyone is entitled to without cost. Healthcare is a service where other people who have extensive training try to cure illnesses for fix damaged parts of your body. Now my problem with calling healthcare a "right" is that you're essentially saying that you're entitled to have access to someone else's time and knowledge for no charge, and this definition dances dangerously close to that of slavery.
1) Who says that doctors shouldn't be remunerated by the government or some other party for their service? When people mean 'free' healthcare they mean 'the patient doesn't pay anything', not 'the physician donates his time'.
2) It's not right, but then IMO that's a legal matter, not a moral or ethical matter. If you don't want heavy smokers to be such a burden on your healthcare system, then ban smoking.
 

Mr. Pedantic

Diamond Member
Feb 14, 2010
5,039
0
76
Ummm, wut?
To be honest, that's a pretty fair point. If you charge for a 'right', then what about people who literally have no money? Are they to be denied on that basis? If they are, then it's not a right, is it?
 

frostedflakes

Diamond Member
Mar 1, 2005
7,925
1
0
You'll get treatment, but if you can't pay for the bills, you're pretty fucked if you live. Insurance will probably end up fighting you over every dollar. And if you can't work out a payment plan or something, you'll probably have to declare bankruptcy and let the courts work it out.

I have a childhood friend whose dad fought with cancer for years (it ended up getting into his brain, really nasty stuff). I don't remember the exact numbers, but I thought they racked up at least $500k in medical bills. Ended up having to declare bankruptcy. I don't know how much of the debt was absolved, but this was like 10 years ago and I think their mom is still working on paying it off.
 

ObscureCaucasian

Diamond Member
Jul 23, 2006
3,934
0
0
1) Who says that doctors shouldn't be remunerated by the government or some other party for their service? When people mean 'free' healthcare they mean 'the patient doesn't pay anything', not 'the physician donates his time'.
2) It's not right, but then IMO that's a legal matter, not a moral or ethical matter. If you don't want heavy smokers to be such a burden on your healthcare system, then ban smoking.
Sorry, but the term "free health care" really bothers me since it is in no way, shape, or form 'free'. What the term "free health care" really means is the Government gets to decide who pays for your health care.

As for your #2, that's a very dangerous road to head down. You essentially give the government to ban or control anything that could be potentially harmful to a person. Under private systems individuals can partake in such activities so long as they pay increased premiums to offset their increased risk.
 

Matthiasa

Diamond Member
May 4, 2009
5,755
22
81
I remember reading on the Time article about the reform, how it says that insurance companies won't be allowed to remove coverage from an individual when he/she gets sick. Is that what insurance companies can go at the moment? They can say "oh, you've paid for healthcare insurance from us for years, but seeing as you now have IHD we're now not going to cover you anymore if you get a heart attack or need treatment for this"?
Yeah something like they, if you ever actually need it they will do their best to drop you.
 

brblx

Diamond Member
Mar 23, 2009
5,499
1
0
I've always been curious about but never understood..can we keep it non-political though?

1) If you get sick in the US, say you get cancer...but don't have insurance and can't pay for it, what happens?
you die of cancer. period.

'need an operation' is more of a grey area since it may require an ER visit. but cancer will not be treated until it's already in terminal stages.
 

Hacp

Lifer
Jun 8, 2005
13,923
1
81
I've always been curious about but never understood..can we keep it non-political though?

1) If you get sick in the US, say you get cancer or need an operation, but don't have insurance and can't pay for it, what happens?

Are you just denied any sort of care, or is the medicine/treatment provided for you and then you get stuck with the bill? And if you can't/don't pay where do the taxes come from to pay for it?
What happens in any other country? You die of natural causes.
2) If a visitor to the US gets sick or has to go to the hospital, are they obligated to have to pay for their services? If so what happens if they don't?
What happens when you use a service but don't pay for it in any country? What happens if you eat at a restaurant but don't pay the bill?
3) If a US citizen visits a foreign country with universal care..e.g. Canada, will you get treatment at no cost?
If Canada offers to provide free services at no cost, I'm sure California would be happy to bus the illegals across the border to get treatment.
 

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