• Guest, The rules for the P & N subforum have been updated to prohibit "ad hominem" or personal attacks against other posters. See the full details in the post "Politics and News Rules & Guidelines."

Health Care Poll

Page 3 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

Slew Foot

Lifer
Sep 22, 2005
12,387
94
86
Originally posted by: agentbad



I am not looking for some socialist utopia or hippie commune. Health care should be a right to any tax payer in this country. The poor already get free health care under the current system if that's what you have a problem with which is paid for by taxes. Now they don't get the best care because of that but they do get health care. Will you wait until you start getting old and need that first bypass that you will reconsider? What if you get cancer and have to spend your whole life savings to pay the insurance premiums since your job fired you because you can't come to work? I see and hear these arguments all the time at work and it saddens me.
Old people get medicare.

 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,034
1
61
Originally posted by: senseamp
If you want to live in free society, move to one.
We'll build a Socialist type of government we want over here without you.
No thanks.
 

NoStateofMind

Diamond Member
Oct 14, 2005
9,716
6
76
If you think for one second that taxes won't increase exponentially from the year that universal heathcare is implemented, you are not only delusional, but also an idiot.
 

nonameo

Diamond Member
Mar 13, 2006
5,950
0
76
Given the choices, and reality, I would be for a single payer health insurance system. Unfortunately this will never happen because it's already too big of a business. What we will probably realistically be able to see is the govt forcing everyone to buy health insurance from private companies, and just giving vouchers to poor people or those not covered well by insurance provided by their employers. This doesn't really solve anything, but whatever. Ideally we'd somehow magically find a way to reduce healthcare costs to the point in which no one really needs insurance except for crisis conditions(which is what insurance is really supposed to be for)

I would not go for "socialized" health care though(IOW, healthcare completely ran by the govt). That's just asking for trouble.
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
101,400
5,411
126
Originally posted by: agentbad What if you get cancer and have to spend your whole life savings to pay the insurance premiums since your job fired you because you can't come to work?
cancer treatments are expensive. one way or another, that expense has to be paid.


Originally posted by: nonameo
Given the choices, and reality, I would be for a single payer health insurance system.
well, you've reduced paperwork costs, which can be achieved without moving to a single payer system (see utah). other than that, what have you achieved?
Unfortunately this will never happen because it's already too big of a business. What we will probably realistically be able to see is the govt forcing everyone to buy health insurance from private companies, and just giving vouchers to poor people or those not covered well by insurance provided by their employers. This doesn't really solve anything, but whatever.
insurers have done a lot to squeeze hospitals and doctors due to the fact that they have so much business to wield. so, not only does getting people on insurance get them to (usually) use cheaper non-emergency and preventative medicine, but it also reduces the cost of each service.
Ideally we'd somehow magically find a way to reduce healthcare costs to the point in which no one really needs insurance except for crisis conditions(which is what insurance is really supposed to be for)
well, you're right about one thing, it would take magic to do it.
I would not go for "socialized" health care though(IOW, healthcare completely ran by the govt). That's just asking for trouble.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
48,165
8,675
126
Oh yeah, I just can't wait until the federal government has access to everyone's private medical records AND the power to tell me and everyone else what medical procedures and prescription drugs we can or can't have.

:roll:

 

agentbad

Senior member
Nov 2, 2004
269
0
76
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
If you think for one second that taxes won't increase exponentially from the year that universal heathcare is implemented, you are not only delusional, but also an idiot.
Insurance premiums are already increasing exponentially and when you get sick they go up even more or they just deny your claim to make money. If you're lucky the church or your bank account might be able to cover it but if not then well you die.

I can understand the reluctance to hand over the health system to the gov't but what other way can we cut the red tape and get everyone insured without companies telling people what kind of treatment they can get?

 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
34,957
4,932
126
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: senseamp
If you want to live in free society, move to one.
We'll build a Socialist type of government we want over here without you.
No thanks.
You are going to have a universal healthcare system in the US in not too many years. You'll just have to get with the program.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
34,957
4,932
126
GOP had since Nixon to fix the HMO/privatized healthcare mess they created. Time is running up. This is one issue I am not losing any sleep over, because I think it's inevitable that we'll have universal healthcare. Big business now sees the writing on the wall that they can't compete if they have to carry the exploding healthcare burden for their employees. So now it's not 1993 when it was a bunch of liberals vs health care industry. Now it's big business vs big business with liberals on the side lines with pop corn :D
 

NoStateofMind

Diamond Member
Oct 14, 2005
9,716
6
76
Originally posted by: senseamp
GOP had since Nixon to fix the HMO/privatized healthcare mess they created. Time is running up. This is one issue I am not losing any sleep over, because I think it's inevitable that we'll have universal healthcare. Big business now sees the writing on the wall that they can't compete if they have to carry the exploding healthcare burden for their employees. So now it's not 1993 when it was a bunch of liberals vs health care industry. Now it's big business vs big business with liberals on the side lines with pop corn :D
So I guess the dems are going to fix it with a socialized medicine? No thanks.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
34,957
4,932
126
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Originally posted by: senseamp
GOP had since Nixon to fix the HMO/privatized healthcare mess they created. Time is running up. This is one issue I am not losing any sleep over, because I think it's inevitable that we'll have universal healthcare. Big business now sees the writing on the wall that they can't compete if they have to carry the exploding healthcare burden for their employees. So now it's not 1993 when it was a bunch of liberals vs health care industry. Now it's big business vs big business with liberals on the side lines with pop corn :D
So I guess the dems are going to fix it with a socialized medicine? No thanks.
You'll get universal health care, like it or not. It's inevitable. You couldn't fix it your way, now it's time to let others try.
 

NoStateofMind

Diamond Member
Oct 14, 2005
9,716
6
76
Originally posted by: senseamp
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Originally posted by: senseamp
GOP had since Nixon to fix the HMO/privatized healthcare mess they created. Time is running up. This is one issue I am not losing any sleep over, because I think it's inevitable that we'll have universal healthcare. Big business now sees the writing on the wall that they can't compete if they have to carry the exploding healthcare burden for their employees. So now it's not 1993 when it was a bunch of liberals vs health care industry. Now it's big business vs big business with liberals on the side lines with pop corn :D
So I guess the dems are going to fix it with a socialized medicine? No thanks.
You'll get universal health care, like it or not. It's inevitable. You couldn't fix it your way, now it's time to let others try.
My way? What "my way"? Just because someone in politics may make that come true, doesn't in any way, make it right.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
34,957
4,932
126
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Originally posted by: senseamp
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Originally posted by: senseamp
GOP had since Nixon to fix the HMO/privatized healthcare mess they created. Time is running up. This is one issue I am not losing any sleep over, because I think it's inevitable that we'll have universal healthcare. Big business now sees the writing on the wall that they can't compete if they have to carry the exploding healthcare burden for their employees. So now it's not 1993 when it was a bunch of liberals vs health care industry. Now it's big business vs big business with liberals on the side lines with pop corn :D
So I guess the dems are going to fix it with a socialized medicine? No thanks.
You'll get universal health care, like it or not. It's inevitable. You couldn't fix it your way, now it's time to let others try.
My way? What "my way"? Just because someone in politics may make that come true, doesn't in any way, make it right.
The status quo is your way. It doesn't work. Republicans aren't opposed to universal healthcare because they think it's going to fail, they are opposed to it because they know it will succeed, and they will never ever get rid of it. How many countries that implemented universal coverage decided to go back to the type of system we have now? You can call it Socialist medicine, Stalinist medicine, Leninist medicine, Marxist medicine, whatever cold war cliche you want. It's going to happen because the current system is a failure, and once it's here, it's here to stay. Democrats only have to succeed in passing it once, GOP has to keep fighting it over and over again, and never lose. Something that can happen will happen if given enough time :)
 

NoStateofMind

Diamond Member
Oct 14, 2005
9,716
6
76
Originally posted by: senseamp
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Originally posted by: senseamp
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Originally posted by: senseamp
GOP had since Nixon to fix the HMO/privatized healthcare mess they created. Time is running up. This is one issue I am not losing any sleep over, because I think it's inevitable that we'll have universal healthcare. Big business now sees the writing on the wall that they can't compete if they have to carry the exploding healthcare burden for their employees. So now it's not 1993 when it was a bunch of liberals vs health care industry. Now it's big business vs big business with liberals on the side lines with pop corn :D
So I guess the dems are going to fix it with a socialized medicine? No thanks.
You'll get universal health care, like it or not. It's inevitable. You couldn't fix it your way, now it's time to let others try.
My way? What "my way"? Just because someone in politics may make that come true, doesn't in any way, make it right.
The status quo is your way. It doesn't work. Republicans aren't opposed to universal healthcare because they think it's going to fail, they are opposed to it because they know it will succeed, and they will never ever get rid of it. How many countries that implemented universal coverage decided to go back to the type of system we have now? You can call it Socialist medicine, Stalinist medicine, Leninist medicine, Marxist medicine, whatever cold war cliche you want. It's going to happen because the current system is a failure, and once it's here, it's here to stay. Democrats only have to succeed in passing it once, GOP has to keep fighting it over and over again, and never lose. Something that can happen will happen if given enough time :)
What is the status quo? how do you know I support that?

For the record it is a socialistic form of government whether you like that term or not.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
34,957
4,932
126
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Originally posted by: senseamp
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Originally posted by: senseamp
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Originally posted by: senseamp
GOP had since Nixon to fix the HMO/privatized healthcare mess they created. Time is running up. This is one issue I am not losing any sleep over, because I think it's inevitable that we'll have universal healthcare. Big business now sees the writing on the wall that they can't compete if they have to carry the exploding healthcare burden for their employees. So now it's not 1993 when it was a bunch of liberals vs health care industry. Now it's big business vs big business with liberals on the side lines with pop corn :D
So I guess the dems are going to fix it with a socialized medicine? No thanks.
You'll get universal health care, like it or not. It's inevitable. You couldn't fix it your way, now it's time to let others try.
My way? What "my way"? Just because someone in politics may make that come true, doesn't in any way, make it right.
The status quo is your way. It doesn't work. Republicans aren't opposed to universal healthcare because they think it's going to fail, they are opposed to it because they know it will succeed, and they will never ever get rid of it. How many countries that implemented universal coverage decided to go back to the type of system we have now? You can call it Socialist medicine, Stalinist medicine, Leninist medicine, Marxist medicine, whatever cold war cliche you want. It's going to happen because the current system is a failure, and once it's here, it's here to stay. Democrats only have to succeed in passing it once, GOP has to keep fighting it over and over again, and never lose. Something that can happen will happen if given enough time :)
What is the status quo? how do you know I support that?

For the record it is a socialistic form of government whether you like that term or not.
Sure, It's Medicare for all. It's not a scary term to me if you call it Socialized medicine.
I don't know what you support or don't, but whatever you support, you better pray it fixes the current healthcare mess and soon, because if it doesn't, universal health coverage will.
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,034
1
61
Originally posted by: senseamp
Republicans aren't opposed to universal healthcare because they think it's going to fail, they are opposed to it because they know it will succeed
Wow, this is just fucking retarded.

Do you really believe the utter bullshit you type?

Hell, half the problems with healthcare stem from government. Why do we not allow Canadian drugs in the USA? Because the pharmaceutical companies are in bed with the government. They don't want the competition.

Government is corrupt. Period. It has been that way since the beginning and it'll be that way until the end. That's the main reason why our government was created the way it was. And the more power and control we have unfortunately allowed our government to take, the worse our country has become.

Do yourself, and the rest of us a favor, and go read the constitution, and learn some history.

We cannot, and should not, try to fix our problems by giving the government even more power. We should be taking the power back that we have unfortunately given them.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
34,957
4,932
126
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: senseamp
Republicans aren't opposed to universal healthcare because they think it's going to fail, they are opposed to it because they know it will succeed
Wow, this is just fucking retarded.

Do you really believe the utter bullshit you type?

Hell, half the problems with healthcare stem from government. Why do we not allow Canadian drugs in the USA? Because the pharmaceutical companies are in bed with the government. They don't want the competition.

Government is corrupt. Period. It has been that way since the beginning and it'll be that way until the end. That's the main reason why our government was created the way it was. And the more power and control we have unfortunately allowed our government to take, the worse our country has become.

Do yourself, and the rest of us a favor, and go read the constitution, and learn some history.

We cannot, and should not, try to fix our problems by giving the government even more power. We should be taking the power back that we have unfortunately given them.
Really, that's why the Republicans expanded Medicare to cover prescription drugs? Medicare being good is not really up for debate, neither party wants to end Medicare, and Republicans expanded it. And if it's good for seniors, it's going to be just as good for everyone else. And that's what we are talking about, Medicare for all. You will still be able to buy supplemental coverage if you aren't happy with Medicare coverage.
Bottom line is your party had a very very long time to fix problems its way, and failed miserably. Now it's time for it to STFU and let others try. It's not rocket science, other countries have done it.
 

SpongeBob

Platinum Member
Jan 16, 2001
2,825
0
76
What senseamp doesn't understand is that the fed govt. is even worse at managing things than big business. Take it from someone who is a fed govt. employee.
 

SpongeBob

Platinum Member
Jan 16, 2001
2,825
0
76
Originally posted by: senseamp
And if it's good for seniors, it's going to be just as good for everyone else.
Tell me how exactly the billions of dollars of documented medicare fraud has been good for seniors? They probably could have bought a lot more prescription drugs if that money was in there pocket instead of in the Caymans somewhere.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
34,957
4,932
126
Originally posted by: SpongeBob
Originally posted by: senseamp
And if it's good for seniors, it's going to be just as good for everyone else.
Tell me how exactly the billions of dollars of documented medicare fraud has been good for seniors? They probably could have bought a lot more prescription drugs if that money was in there pocket instead of in the Caymans somewhere.
I more than welcome Republicans running on the platform of overturning Medicare :D
Not like they need help committing political suicide anyways, but hey, can't hurt ;)
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,034
1
61
Originally posted by: senseamp
You will still be able to buy supplemental coverage if you aren't happy with Medicare coverage.
Think about what you just said here.

If it is so great, why would anyone need additional coverage?

Now, how the hell are we supposed to pay for universal healthcare? Keep in mind, with current spending, we are already borrowing $3 billion each day from China.

You people who want to make our federal government bigger and stronger are morons, and there's just no sense in arguing with you.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY