Health Bill Greatly Expands Powers of the IRS

[GTaudiophile]

House Ways and Means Republicans on Thursday assailed a provision in the proposed health care reform bill under consideration this week.
Subcommittee on Oversight ranking member Charles Boustany (R-La.) said the IRS provision in the bill "dangerously expands, in an ominous way the tentacles of the IRS and it's reach into every American family," he said today during a press conference.
"This is a vast expanse of power," he said.
Boustany said the bill would allow the IRS to confiscate refunds if there are penalties for not buying health care.
Lawmakers have questioned whether the IRS can handle the increased workload to oversee, administer and collect penalties for people who don't buy health insurance.
"This is increasing tax liability and tax scrutiny," said Rep. Peter Roskam (R-Ill.).
Ranking member Dave Camp (R-Mich.) said many Americans have already rejected the call for health care reform for other reasons and an expansion of the IRS should only add to call to "kill the bill."
Taxpayers could be required to buy insurance under President Barack Obama’s reform proposal by 2014 or face penalties of roughly $325 per individual that the IRS would collect.
Assuming it becomes law, the Congressional Budget Office expects the IRS will need roughly $10 billion over the next 10 years and nearly 17,000 new employees to meet its new responsibilities under health reform.
"We're going to fight to the end to see that this does not pass," Boustany said.

Source


No surprise here. Take from the productive and give to the dregs of society. Typical.

What would happen if 50% of the tax-paying population just decided not to pay on April 15?

I mean, we can just choke government of its lifeblood, couldn't we? If we had the balls?

 

[Danube]

I'm sure those 17,000 new employees will be real winners too.

 

[BudAshes]

Source


No surprise here. Take from the productive and give to the dregs of society. Typical.

What would happen if 50% of the tax-paying population just decided not to pay on April 15?

I mean, we can just choke government of its lifeblood, couldn't we? If we had the balls?

Yeah that would be a good idea. You should try it.

Even though this country protects you and shelters you and has a gigantic military to which most of your tax dollars go. How would you feel without a multi trillion dollar military at your back?

 

[heyheybooboo]

You guys running out of talking points?




--

 

[EagleKeeper]

MA already has this in place.

You have to enter a insurance company ID & policy number when the tax is filed.

No insurance info - they increase the tax owed. Shows as a line item on their tax form.

The IRs already electronically processes the employer ID and validates SS#(date/name/#). Only two more peices of data.

Why do they need the extra $$ and employees? "Putting America to Work"?

 

[Sclamoz]

Boustany said the bill would allow the IRS to confiscate refunds if there are penalties for not buying health care.

The IRS can already confiscate your tax refunds. How is this greatly expanding the power of the IRS?

 

[heyheybooboo]

...
Why do they need the extra $$ and employees? "Putting America to Work"?

Best I can tell employment at the IRS has dropped from 116,673 in 1992 to as low as 92,000 ---- not sure what it is this year (hard to find any thing that makes sense). I'll guess 95,000 to 100,000 depending how you compute 'contractors'.

I did find something that said the cost of collecting had dropped by 1/3 since 1992.




--

 

[DesiPower]

You guys running out of talking points?
--

THIS, STFU already, there is nothing you can do anymore... spend your time finding ways to save your belongings from the feds, there is no point discussing it anymore.

 

[GTaudiophile]

Caterpillar: Health care bill would cost it $100M

A letter Thursday to President Barack Obama and members of Congress signed by more than 130 economists predicted the legislation would discourage companies from hiring more workers and would cause reduced hours and wages for those already employed.

 

[ProfJohn]

Yeah that would be a good idea. You should try it.

Even though this country protects you and shelters you and has a gigantic military to which most of your tax dollars go. How would you feel without a multi trillion dollar military at your back?

The military is only 18% of our budget.

Welfare, Medicare and Medicaid combine to 36% or double the amount spent on defense.

And don't forget that Federal spending and taxes are only half of our tax burden with the other half being state and local.

Therefore, perhaps 9-10% of our tax dollars going to our defense. I would guess that about a third go to some kind of social spending and the rest go to schools, transportation, police etc etc.

 

[ProfJohn]

I should add that the Department of Health and Human Services is THE largest department in our government. (not including Treasury and it's debt payments)

 

[WHAMPOM]

Source


No surprise here. Take from the productive and give to the dregs of society. Typical.

What would happen if 50% of the tax-paying population just decided not to pay on April 15?

I mean, we can just choke government of its lifeblood, couldn't we? If we had the balls?

Ya mean just like they do now to collect delinquent child support? Kinda like the same thing taking from those who produce and giving to those who cannot?

 

[EagleKeeper]

delinquent child support
Those that are having their refunds taken for such already agreed to pay and then have refused to pay

 

[Sclamoz]

delinquent child support
Those that are having their refunds taken for such already agreed to pay and then have refused to pay

Or they refused and were ordered by the court to do so.

What actions can the IRS take to collect taxes?

It is important to contact IRS and make arrangements to pay the tax due voluntarily. If you do not IRS may take action to secure payment.

Some of the actions the IRS may take to collect taxes include:

1. Filing a Notice of Federal Tax Lien,
2. Serving a Notice of Levy; or
3. Offsetting a refund to which you are entitled.

The federal tax lien is a claim against your property, including property that you acquire after the lien is filed. By filing a Notice of Federal Tax Lien, the government establishes its interest in your property as a creditor in competition with other creditors in certain situations, such as bankruptcy proceedings or sales of real estate. A federal tax lien may appear on your credit report and may harm your credit rating. Once a lien is filed, the IRS generally cannot issue a "Certificate of Release of Federal Tax Lien" until the taxes, penalties, interest, and recording fees are paid in full or the IRS may no longer legally collect the tax.

A Notice of Levy is another method the IRS may use to collect taxes. Levying means that the IRS can confiscate and sell property to satisfy a tax debt. This property could include your car, boat, or real estate. The IRS may also levy assets such as your wages, bank accounts, Social Security benefits, and retirement income. In addition, the IRS will apply future federal tax refunds that you are due, to offset the amount you owe. Any state income tax refunds you are owed may also be applied to your liability.

Assets, such as, but not limited to, improvements such as buildings on trust land, vehicles, bank accounts, earnings, and fee simple land, owned by individuals, are subject to seizure, Federal Tax Liens, garnishments, and levies.

http://www.irs.gov/govt/tribes/article/0,,id=179516,00.html

 

[piasabird]

You have to have a job first.

Taxation without representation.

 

[rudder]

Careful OP, you will be called a racist and rightwingnut for posting something like this.

 

[heyheybooboo]

The military is only 18% of our budget.

Welfare, Medicare and Medicaid combine to 36% or double the amount spent on defense.

And don't forget that Federal spending and taxes are only half of our tax burden with the other half being state and local.

Therefore, perhaps 9-10% of our tax dollars going to our defense. I would guess that about a third go to some kind of social spending and the rest go to schools, transportation, police etc etc.

That's really misleading, Johnny. No big surprise.

Military spending for FY2009 represented 4.8% of GDP ---- the exact same percentage as Medicare and Medicaid in the Federal budget.

Military spending represents 54% of the Federal discretionary budget.

You roll in social security into your numbers without attribution and fail to note that those expenses are 'equalized' by receipts.

And more importantly, fail to note that the 'trust funds' are owed $4.487 trillion as of today.

I'm not minimizing any issues --- I'm pointing out what kind of useless troll you represent.




--

 

[MotF Bane]

That's really misleading, Johnny. No big surprise.

Military spending for FY2009 represented 4.8% of GDP ---- the exact same percentage as Medicare and Medicaid in the Federal budget.

Military spending represents 54% of the Federal discretionary budget.

You roll in social security into your numbers without attribution and fail to note that those expenses are 'equalized' by receipts.

And more importantly, fail to note that the 'trust funds' are owed $4.487 trillion as of today.

I'm not minimizing any issues --- I'm pointing out what kind of useless troll you represent.




--

John is actually right. Welfare, Social Security, and Medicare programs dwarf defense by far. Stop looking at just the discretionary budget; you're the one being misleading.

 

[werepossum]

That's really misleading, Johnny. No big surprise.

Military spending for FY2009 represented 4.8% of GDP ---- the exact same percentage as Medicare and Medicaid in the Federal budget.

Military spending represents 54% of the Federal discretionary budget.

You roll in social security into your numbers without attribution and fail to note that those expenses are 'equalized' by receipts.

And more importantly, fail to note that the 'trust funds' are owed $4.487 trillion as of today.

I'm not minimizing any issues --- I'm pointing out what kind of useless troll you represent.




--

Karl Marx awards you 100 Marx points for pointing out that welfare in mandatory but defending the USA is discretionary! j/k

Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid are simply transfer payments like any other form of social welfare; their taxes go straight into the general fund, with an update to the electronic IOU in the "trust fund". (And yes, I support all three of these whilst recognizing that they are socialist programs.)

 

[ProfJohn]

That's really misleading, Johnny. No big surprise.

Military spending for FY2009 represented 4.8% of GDP ---- the exact same percentage as Medicare and Medicaid in the Federal budget.

Military spending represents 54% of the Federal discretionary budget.

You roll in social security into your numbers without attribution and fail to note that those expenses are 'equalized' by receipts.

And more importantly, fail to note that the 'trust funds' are owed $4.487 trillion as of today.

I'm not minimizing any issues --- I'm pointing out what kind of useless troll you represent.

My 36% number does NOT include Social Security spending. If you include SS the number actually jumps to 55%.

And here is a dollar breakdown.
http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/us_welfare_spending_40.html#usgs30200
Healthcare = $829 billion
Welfare = $557 billion
Total = $1.386 Trillion

Defense = $895 billion

When you add state and local spending the numbers become even more skewed.
Welfare + healthcare = $1.8 trillion
Defense = $895 billion or less than half the amount we spend on social services.

And again I did NOT include Social Security into those numbers.

When you combine Federal, State and Local spending together you end up with a projected $6.5 trillion this year of which $1.8 trillion will go to healthcare and welfare or just under a third, which is the number I guessed.

BTW we could start a whole thread about the fact that 50% of GDP is spent by the government.

 

[theeedude]

So all uninsured are dregs of society?

 

[BoberFett]

Yeah that would be a good idea. You should try it.

Even though this country protects you and shelters you and has a gigantic military to which most of your tax dollars go. How would you feel without a multi trillion dollar military at your back?

I would love it if we didn't have to support a trillion dollar military.

What exactly are we getting for our money, anyway?

 

[woolfe9999]

The military is only 18% of our budget.

Welfare, Medicare and Medicaid combine to 36% or double the amount spent on defense.

And don't forget that Federal spending and taxes are only half of our tax burden with the other half being state and local.

Therefore, perhaps 9-10% of our tax dollars going to our defense. I would guess that about a third go to some kind of social spending and the rest go to schools, transportation, police etc etc.

That 18% doesn't include "off budget" appropriations for the two wars we have been fighting. With the wars, defense is about 23% of the budget. Try again.

- wolf

 

[shira]

So let me get this outrage straight:

1) A person refuses to get get health insurance converage ==> The person is assessed a tax penalty.

Comment: This is a well-known component of the legislation. No surprise here, move on.

2) After the penalty is assessed, the IRS is empowered to withold a portion of the person's refund to pay for the tax penalty.

Comment: This is EXACTLY the same as the current IRS power to withold a portion of a person's refund to pay for a tax penalty. But the right thinks this is a "huge expansion" of IRS power??????

The manure is deep with this one.

 

[ProfJohn]

That 18% doesn't include "off budget" appropriations for the two wars we have been fighting. With the wars, defense is about 23% of the budget. Try again.

- wolf

You are partially right.

Obama put the wars back on budget. However, there is military spending that takes place outside of the DoD that amount to $200-300+ billion per year. I don't know what the exact number is, but the second web site I linked claims $895 billion is the total amount of Defense spending. That would but defense at 24% of the Federal budget.

The numbers on social services still remain the same. Over 1/3 of our tax dollars are taken from us and 'given' to others via the government.