Headlights dim and car Idles at low RPM after subwoofer install

naheed24

Junior Member
Oct 2, 2019
9
0
6
Hi,

I just got a 120W RMS MTX '8 Subwoofer installed in my car today. After testing I noticed that my Idle RPM has dropped and the car gets shaky when the gear is set to Drive and when stopping on a red light. Also at night the headlights and interior lights dim when the woofer hits. Is there a lot of load on the battery? Honda Civic 2012 coupe. Any suggestions?

Thanks.
 

naheed24

Junior Member
Oct 2, 2019
9
0
6

naheed24

Junior Member
Oct 2, 2019
9
0
6
Is this just when sub is working or all the time? If it's all the time it might be something that got loose somewhere.

Well it happens all the time. When the amp is connected I guess. I had the install done by a shop, so have no idea where to look for loose wires. I can however try disconnecting it from the battery terminal and see if that fixes the idling and shaking. The subwoofer is only 120W and that is nothing compared to other larger ones. I feel it shouldn't put alot of strain on the electrical system.
 

Iron Woode

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 10, 1999
31,209
12,739
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sounds like there is too much load on the alternator. That will cause drag and the idle rpm will drop.
 

RLGL

Platinum Member
Jan 8, 2013
2,114
321
126
Oh by the way, if the voltage drops too far the engine will die.
 

spacejamz

Lifer
Mar 31, 2003
10,930
1,588
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Well it happens all the time. When the amp is connected I guess. I had the install done by a shop, so have no idea where to look for loose wires. I can however try disconnecting it from the battery terminal and see if that fixes the idling and shaking. The subwoofer is only 120W and that is nothing compared to other larger ones. I feel it shouldn't put alot of strain on the electrical system.

Just pull the fuse out of the amp or the in line fuse holder (hopefully the shop installed one on the power from the battery to the amp)...much easier than disconnecting it from the battery terminal.
 

deadlyapp

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2004
6,652
734
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120W sub shouldn't cause enough additional load on your battery or alternator to cause these issues. Shit, the cigarette lighters / accessory ports are generally rated for 120W on their own.

There's a bigger problem with either your battery or alternator.
 

naheed24

Junior Member
Oct 2, 2019
9
0
6
I installed a capacitor, and it is the same. My headlights still dim when a bass note hits. I also did run a test with a multi meter. Battery was at 12.26V (Engine off) and Alternator at
(14.4V) engine on. I prolly feel its the battery too coz its kinda old, say like 4 years. Never gave me any problems until a installed a sub. One quick question though, Alternator takes over the electrical system after the engine is started, If the battery is a little weak will this happen?
 

deadlyapp

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2004
6,652
734
126
I installed a capacitor, and it is the same. My headlights still dim when a bass note hits. I also did run a test with a multi meter. Battery was at 12.26V (Engine off) and Alternator at
(14.4V) engine on. I prolly feel its the battery too coz its kinda old, say like 4 years. Never gave me any problems until a installed a sub. One quick question though, Alternator takes over the electrical system after the engine is started, If the battery is a little weak will this happen?
I have had it happen since generally it's not directly fed by the alternator but is rather fed back through the battery
 

Hail The Brain Slug

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2005
3,770
3,081
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Did you install a real, quality capacitor or did you install a cardboard tube with rocks and a 5,000 microfarad capacitor inside?

12.26v on the battery is not great, a fully charged lead acid battery should be around 12.6-12.7.

Seems to me like your battery is going or you aren't allowing it to recharge sufficiently.
 

blankslate

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2008
8,765
543
126
You know eventually those dylithium crystals will get old and worn!!

Spock: "Mr. Scott why don't you take a phaser and use a low powered beam to regenerate the dilithium crystals?"

Scotty: "Spock!! that just might work!!!"

Spock: "Sheet it worked last Week MOFO!!!"


______________
 
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Paperdoc

Platinum Member
Aug 17, 2006
2,445
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An alternator does not "take over". ALL the power for your car at all times comes from the battery. BUT under all normal circumstances when the engine is running, the alternator is also charging the battery at the same time that the rest of the system is drawing power. By design, the minimum charging rate at idle is more than enough to make up for the current draw from the battery for the rest of the car, so the battery does not get drained. However, if you were to add to your system a new power consumer with significant current draw when the engine is just idling, then the alternator output may NOT exceed the total current drain, and your battery will be supplying more power than the alternator can make up.

You installed a speaker that uses at max 120 W, or 10 A at 12 VDC. It is not clear whether the entire speaker and amp system uses 10 A max, or whether the speaker itself uses up to 10 A and the amp may be consuming more than that. Whichever, when the speaker actually IS potting out a loud bass sound and thus using nearly its max current rating, that may be in the range that an idling alternator cannot supply. Don't forget, the alternator is designed to be able to produce more current at higher rpm, but at idle rpm its output is just enough to offset the car's "normal" draw at idle. In fact, when the alternator is forced (by high use of the subwoofer for loud bass tomes) to produce the max current it can at idle speed, that represents an increased load on the engine turning the alternator, which is why you note the engine rpm's are down and it feels like it is shuddering and might even stall.

A capacitor will do NOTHING for this.A good one can supply a surge of current for less than a second so a single bass drum "thump" can be delivered correctly, but then it needs to be recharged before the next "thump" needs extra power. If the power supply to the line cannot deliver that right away, it does not solve your problem.

You could ask an auto tech to check whether the engine idle speed is actually set correctly. This is not something normally adjusted by the end user, but there is a spec for what it should be and how to adjust.Commonly it is spec'd when the car is in Drive and idling but stopped, just like at an intersection red light. BUT that's with what the car designers called "normal" electrical load at idle. If it is already too low, just setting it back up to spec might help. Alternatively, you might ask if the tech can make the adjustment to spec WITH the new subwoofer operating and using significant power with lots of bass music. Running the engine at a slightly higher idle speed would increase the alternator output under the new increased-load version of "idle".
 

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
61,456
17,008
136
Well it happens all the time. When the amp is connected I guess. I had the install done by a shop, so have no idea where to look for loose wires. I can however try disconnecting it from the battery terminal and see if that fixes the idling and shaking. The subwoofer is only 120W and that is nothing compared to other larger ones. I feel it shouldn't put alot of strain on the electrical system.
Was it not a reputable shop that stands behind their work? I feel like if I paid someone for the install and then I had this problem, I'd be heading back there and having them check it over.
 

13Gigatons

Diamond Member
Apr 19, 2005
7,461
500
126
An alternator does not "take over". ALL the power for your car at all times comes from the battery. BUT under all normal

I'm going to guess that the Honda Civic has a pretty low grade battery and alternator. Even the thickness of wires used can affect the voltage. However a 120watt sub-woofer is not particularly huge so it must be a very weak system.
 

Hail The Brain Slug

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2005
3,770
3,081
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I'm going to guess that the Honda Civic has a pretty low grade battery and alternator. Even the thickness of wires used can affect the voltage. However a 120watt sub-woofer is not particularly huge so it must be a very weak system.


It looks like it's a 95 amp alternator and I assume the same group 51R battery Civics have been using forever. So yeah, relatively weak.
 

DaaQ

Golden Member
Dec 8, 2018
1,859
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The OP stated it is 150w RMS. As I understand this new rating system (which I don't btw) It's actual power consumption will be significantly higher. Example, I have an amp sitting here for the wife's car, it is rated 70w x 4 at 4 ohm but then it says 900w max power ( I'm assuming at 2 ohms). The 6*9 speakers I think were rated 65w RMS but the box just had something like 350 or 400w on it.
So, I think the 150w RMS rating of his sub is much higher than just a 150w load.

I agree with others, maybe battery is showing it's age, but more likely needing a higher output alternator. Did the shop discuss this at all OP?
 

naheed24

Junior Member
Oct 2, 2019
9
0
6
Well I took it back to them. They said that will not check because I installed a cap myself. How would I not. They quoted me $150 for the cap + additional installation charges. Ok so I installed a new battery and the lights still dim. Can this be caused by a bad ground? I have read, bad grounds can cause this. The shop have grounded the sub in the trunk under the carpet. Is there any place I can use to ground in this car? (Honda Civic 2012 coupe)
 

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NutBucket

Lifer
Aug 30, 2000
27,124
613
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Bad ground would be for the headlights. If the amp has a bad ground it simply wouldn't work. Seems to be grounded ok, but what is that cable with a connector on it hanging freely? That's definitely odd.
 

naheed24

Junior Member
Oct 2, 2019
9
0
6
Oh that is the ground wire the shop installed. I disconnected it when I installed the cap. There is no connection on that cable. Both ends are disconnected. How do I check the ground for the headlights?
 

13Gigatons

Diamond Member
Apr 19, 2005
7,461
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So other tricks:

1. Add a second battery
2. Use thicker gauge wire (make sure it is 100% copper)
3. Increase your idle RPM
 

RLGL

Platinum Member
Jan 8, 2013
2,114
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1. Add a second battery
2. Use thicker gauge wire (make sure it is 100% copper)
You may have to power this thing with wire as large as 4 ga to and from the power source.
A second battery, from my experience in the boating field is a 50/50.
You may not solve the issue.
Do not mess with the engines control system