News He was a top church official who criticized Trump. He says Christianity is in crisis

[Moonbeam]

I agree, but here in the South, the SBC has tremendous influence. I grew up Baptist...I'm still a Christian, but will never set foot in a Baptist church ever again.

If Jesus returned, these same people who claim to love him, would be the ones to crucify him again.

They do so by their thinking every day.

 

[Drach]

I’m going to say this again, the Southern Baptist Convention does NOT represent the entirety of Christianity in America! I really wish folks would learn that!

My apologizes to you. I didn't mean everyone that believes in Christianity. I do firmly believe that the majority of evangelical's don't even try to follow Christ's teachings.
My own father is a prime example. He is an 80 year old Sunday school teacher that should never be allowed around children.
But hey, born again right?

 

[nakedfrog]

I'm curious what the Big Church thinks compared to individual churches.

For example, one person in my gaming group attends an LGBTQ group at their Catholic church. My head damn near exploded (me being a former Catholic no less).

Some individual churches, I do think, really take their mission seriously and earnestly and support humans regardless of who they are, where they came from, or how they identify.

For a few years, the youth LGBTQ+ support group in Omaha met at a Methodist church. I've seen a few LGBTQ+ positive Lutheran churches. Yes, they're definitely out there.

 

[brycejones]

For a few years, the youth LGBTQ+ support group in Omaha met at a Methodist church. I've seen a few LGBTQ+ positive Lutheran churches. Yes, they're definitely out there.

Going to really depend on which Lutheran church. ELCA is much more open than then Missouri Synod for example. I was actually excommunicated from a Missouri Synod church as a teen for considering joining a Masonic youth org my friends were in. Our "pastor" considered Masons tools of the devil.

 

[nakedfrog]

Going to really depend on which Lutheran church. ELCA is much more open than then Missouri Synod for example. I was actually excommunicated from a Missouri Synod church as a teen for considering joining a Masonic youth org my friends were in. Our "pastor" considered Masons tools of the devil.

Yeah, all those sects of Christianity...
Brings to mind the classic Emo Philips joke.

Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump. I said, "Don't do it!" He said, "Nobody loves me." I said, "God loves you. Do you believe in God?"

He said, "Yes." I said, "Are you a Christian or a Jew?" He said, "A Christian." I said, "Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?" He said, "Protestant." I said, "Me, too! What franchise?" He said, "Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?" He said, "Northern Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?"

He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region." I said, "Me, too!"

Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912." I said, "Die, heretic!" And I pushed him over.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Brings to mind the classic Emo Philips joke.

That's the crazy kind of joke Norm Macdonald would tell

 

[nakedfrog]

That's the crazy kind of joke Norm Macdonald would tell

A lot of Emo Philips jokes are off-kilter like that
"Some mornings, it just isn't worth chewing through the leather straps."
"A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing."
"You don't appreciate a lot of stuff in school until you get older. Little things like being spanked every day by a middle-aged woman: Stuff you pay good money for in later life."

 

[MtnMan]

Almost every decent religion preaches being kind to fellow human beings, not just fellow religious believers.

The problem is the so few practice what they preach, at least here in the bible belt.

 

[Moonbeam]

My apologizes to you. I didn't mean everyone that believes in Christianity. I do firmly believe that the majority of evangelical's don't even try to follow Christ's teachings.
My own father is a prime example. He is an 80 year old sunday school teacher that should never be allowed around children.

Because there are so many demented Christian fundamentalists and loveless Christian movements, mental illness posing as religious truth, Christianity is easily stereotyped as a nut case religion in general. It gets lost as the baby is tossed with the bath water, that Christianity was originally the teachings of a God realized individual whose mission was to free save the Jews from the error they had fallen into that simply following religious law would get you into heaven. Living by the law will not bring salvation nor will past sins bar the door to it.

Hatred is the soul killer and it can be overcome by the love it takes to forgive.

One can’t hate the sins of others and forgive one’s self for them, and we of the ego are all trapped in the delusion of our own personal guilt.

Real self forgiveness isn’t had by reading about it in the Bible. It is a massive self transformative experience that is rare these days.

 

[MtnMan]

I agree, but here in the South, the SBC has tremendous influence. I grew up Baptist...I'm still a Christian, but will never set foot in a Baptist church ever again.

If Jesus returned, these same people who claim to love him, would be the ones to crucify him again.

I used to help a friend with his portable sawmill. He would tow it to a landowner's or farmer's land, and do custom saw milling. I used to help him run the mill, and I often got the slab wood for my wood stoves.

He had typically negotiated the job, and when I arrived introduce me to the landowner. All too often, one of the questions they would as is "where do you church?", using the word church as a verb.

 

[BlueWeasel]

I used to help a friend with his portable sawmill. He would tow it to a landowner's or farmer's land, and do custom saw milling. I used to help him run the mill, and I often got the slab wood for my wood stoves.

He had typically negotiated the job, and when I arrived introduce me to the landowner. All too often, one of the questions they would as is "where do you church?", using the word church as a verb.

Here in the Deep South, that's usually one of the first questions asked, along with "What do you do for living?" or the popular "Oh, you're from [HOMETOWN]? Do you know any [LAST NAME]'s from there?"

 

[Vic]

The reason why conservative evangelical Christians are always telling people that they're Christians is because no one would ever know from their works.

 

[Amused]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2019/04/20/hitler-hated-judaism-he-loathed-christianity-too/

Either you are misinformed or they are.

The author of that op-ed is misinformed and cherry picking.

Hitler CLEARLY used and pandered to Christianity much the same way the GQP is now.

"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter" (Speech delivered at Munich April 12, 1922)

"The National Government will regard it as its first and foremost duty to revive in the nation the spirit of unity and co-operation. It will preserve and defend those basic principles on which our nation has been built. It regards Christianity as the foundation of our national morality, and the family as the basis of national life.” (Proclamation to the German Nation February 1, 1933 )

"National Socialism neither opposes the Church nor is it anti-religious, but on the contrary, it stands on the ground of a real Christianity. The Church's interests cannot fail to coincide with ours alike in our fight against the symptoms of degeneracy in the world of today, in our fight against the Bolshevist culture, against an atheistic movement, against criminality, and in our struggle for the consciousness of a community in our national life, for the conquest of hatred and disunion between the classes, for the conquest of civil war and unrest, of strife and discord. These are not anti-Christian, these are Christian principles." (Speech delivered at Koblenz, August 26, 1934)

 

[igor_kavinski]

Hitler CLEARLY used and pandered to Christianity much the same way the GQP is now.

Really weird. No movie has ever shown Hitler having even an ounce of Christianity. Guess Hollywood doesn't want to offend the Church.

 

[turtile]

Really weird. No movie has ever shown Hitler having even an ounce of Christianity. Guess Hollywood doesn't want to offend the Church.

Most people know very little about what actually happened. The Nazis modeled their eugenics program off of what started in the US. The Rockefeller Foundation also funded the work.

 

[Brovane]

The author of that op-ed is misinformed and cherry picking.

Hitler CLEARLY used and pandered to Christianity much the same way the GQP is now.

"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter" (Speech delivered at Munich April 12, 1922)

"The National Government will regard it as its first and foremost duty to revive in the nation the spirit of unity and co-operation. It will preserve and defend those basic principles on which our nation has been built. It regards Christianity as the foundation of our national morality, and the family as the basis of national life.” (Proclamation to the German Nation February 1, 1933 )

"National Socialism neither opposes the Church nor is it anti-religious, but on the contrary, it stands on the ground of a real Christianity. The Church's interests cannot fail to coincide with ours alike in our fight against the symptoms of degeneracy in the world of today, in our fight against the Bolshevist culture, against an atheistic movement, against criminality, and in our struggle for the consciousness of a community in our national life, for the conquest of hatred and disunion between the classes, for the conquest of civil war and unrest, of strife and discord. These are not anti-Christian, these are Christian principles." (Speech delivered at Koblenz, August 26, 1934)

Hitler could still loathe Christianity and pander to it when necessary. Especially in the early 1930's when he was still consolidating power.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Real self forgiveness isn’t had by reading about it in the Bible. It is a massive self transformative experience that is rare these days.

Just the other day, this awfully nice guy in my office was telling me that he used to be so arrogant in his university years coz he would ace exams. He was as cocky as Tom Cruise in Top Gun and maybe even more. Then his brother had a gun accident and became paralyzed. He spent five years caring for his brother and seeing him in that condition broke him down completely. Those five years taught him humility and the importance of realizing that he is just flesh and blood and not infallible. Now he goes out of his way to help anyone and everyone and sacrifices so much that people think he's seriously stupid for putting others before his own needs. He told me that he has never felt better and more satisfied in his life doing what he does now. He would rather be what he is today than that arrogant successful bastard he used to be.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

I have long been frustrated by gatekeepers of knowledge, including the church. Really pisses me off. People need to stop listening to talking heads and go back to source material.

I am not a Christian, but I have and have read The Jefferson Bible (Thomas Jefferson cuts out *a lot* of the mealy mouthed BS and keeps his version soley focused on the teachings of Jesus).

Even then, the NIV is supposed to be extremely readable and it loses a lot of the arcana of the KJV. No reason anyone can't just sit down, read, and understand the bible without some douchbag priest or pastor telling them what to think.

Religion is like the OG Fox News, don't think, don't inform yourself, just believe.

Ironic as many American branches of the faith are factions of the Protestant denomination which was forged from people being completely over The Church's bullshit.

 

[igor_kavinski]

I am not a Christian, but I have and have read The Jefferson Bible (Thomas Jefferson cuts out *a lot* of the mealy mouthed BS and keeps his version soley focused on the teachings of Jesus).

Excellent! Will need to check that out!

 

[GodisanAtheist]

Excellent! Will need to check that out!

- He cuts out SO MUCH bullshit. To put it into context, the Jefferson Bible (AKA "The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth") is ~31,000 words while the King James Version is ~783,000 words.

Jefferson and Adams both were not fans of all the mumbo jumbo and hype men in the bible and just looking for what the fuck Jesus said. Trimmed a lot of fat off that hog.

Edit: Just checked my copy. You get to the Sermon on the Mount in 6 pages.

 

[Puffnstuff]

Jesus warned about the salt losing its savor and by that it means that the church has lost its godly ways. Jesus has been replaced by money...their lord and savior the greenback.

 

[zinfamous]

The author of that op-ed is misinformed and cherry picking.

Hitler CLEARLY used and pandered to Christianity much the same way the GQP is now.

"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter" (Speech delivered at Munich April 12, 1922)

"The National Government will regard it as its first and foremost duty to revive in the nation the spirit of unity and co-operation. It will preserve and defend those basic principles on which our nation has been built. It regards Christianity as the foundation of our national morality, and the family as the basis of national life.” (Proclamation to the German Nation February 1, 1933 )

"National Socialism neither opposes the Church nor is it anti-religious, but on the contrary, it stands on the ground of a real Christianity. The Church's interests cannot fail to coincide with ours alike in our fight against the symptoms of degeneracy in the world of today, in our fight against the Bolshevist culture, against an atheistic movement, against criminality, and in our struggle for the consciousness of a community in our national life, for the conquest of hatred and disunion between the classes, for the conquest of civil war and unrest, of strife and discord. These are not anti-Christian, these are Christian principles." (Speech delivered at Koblenz, August 26, 1934)

I believe the op-ed was cherry-picking a generally well-regarded biography. The article is concise and specifically targeted with one pretty clear intent: put to print an argument that Hitler was an evil atheist and keep muddying the waters regarding the evil that powerful men wield with the weapon of Christianity.

whether or not Hitler vacillated on the matter in life, he had a fairly strong Christian background, the nationalist party that he joined and eventually led was a devout Christian organization, and he most certainly used the religion as a cudgel against the powerless.

 

[MrSquished]

Christianity is a fucking sham. So are all the major religions. Islam too.

 

[amenx]

Pope speaks...

ROME (AP) — Pope Francis has blasted the “backwardness” of some conservatives in the U.S. Catholic Church, saying they have replaced faith with ideology and that a correct understanding of Catholic doctrine allows for change over time...

Pope says some 'backward' conservatives in US Catholic Church have replaced faith with ideology

Pope Francis has blasted the “backwardness” of some conservatives in the U.S. Catholic Church. He says they have replaced faith with ideology and that a correct understanding of Catholic doctrine allows for change over time.

apnews.com

 

[GodisanAtheist]

Pope speaks...

ROME (AP) — Pope Francis has blasted the “backwardness” of some conservatives in the U.S. Catholic Church, saying they have replaced faith with ideology and that a correct understanding of Catholic doctrine allows for change over time...

Pope says some 'backward' conservatives in US Catholic Church have replaced faith with ideology

Pope Francis has blasted the “backwardness” of some conservatives in the U.S. Catholic Church. He says they have replaced faith with ideology and that a correct understanding of Catholic doctrine allows for change over time.

apnews.com

-Schism 2.0 inbound?