HDTV Capture Cards that support Unencrypted QAM

[newParadigm]

'm looking into getting an HDTV Tuner Card for my PC...if I can get a card that will allow me to directly run the Unecrypted QAM broadcast into my comp that would be great...

Otherwise, would it be possible to get a Capture Card that has a DVI input, that i can run from a my HD Satelite box and capture it that way.

I need something here, SD TV just doesn't do my new 2405fpw justice...

 

[Matthias99]

Originally posted by: newParadigm
'm looking into getting an HDTV Tuner Card for my PC...if I can get a card that will allow me to directly run the Unecrypted QAM broadcast into my comp that would be great...

Yes, there are such cards. The name of the manufacturer is escaping me at the moment, but AVSForum has LOTS of information on doing this. There is nothing right now that can take in encrypted content. Vista might make this possible, albeit with some sort of (currently unspecified) DRM restrictions.

Otherwise, would it be possible to get a Capture Card that has a DVI input, that i can run from a my HD Satelite box and capture it that way.

Nope. If they're not using HDCP, though, you can just plug the DVI straight into the 2405FPW.

I need something here, SD TV just doesn't do my new 2405fpw justice...

No, it certainly won't. With DirectTV, you can get tuner cards for the satellite receiver.

 

[Meuge]

What we really need is a card that can take analog HDTV content from a component input, and encode it in real time to a 720p avi.

 

[newParadigm]

Originally posted by: Matthias99

Originally posted by: newParadigm
'm looking into getting an HDTV Tuner Card for my PC...if I can get a card that will allow me to directly run the Unecrypted QAM broadcast into my comp that would be great...

Yes, there are such cards. The name of the manufacturer is escaping me at the moment, but AVSForum has LOTS of information on doing this. There is nothing right now that can take in encrypted content. Vista might make this possible, albeit with some sort of (currently unspecified) DRM restrictions.

Otherwise, would it be possible to get a Capture Card that has a DVI input, that i can run from a my HD Satelite box and capture it that way.

Nope. If they're not using HDCP, though, you can just plug the DVI straight into the 2405FPW.

I need something here, SD TV just doesn't do my new 2405fpw justice...

No, it certainly won't. With DirectTV, you can get tuner cards for the satellite receiver.

Wait...DTV offers such a card?

Do yo no if DISH Network does?

 

[Matthias99]

Originally posted by: Meuge
What we really need is a card that can take analog HDTV content from a component input, and encode it in real time to a 720p avi.

They make them (well, they take SDI inputs, but you can get a pricey component->SDI transcoder), but they are quite expensive. At that point you're talking professional-level production gear.

 

[Matthias99]

Originally posted by: newParadigm
Wait...DTV offers such a card?

I don't believe DTV offers them directly, but you can get them.

Do yo no if DISH Network does?

Sorry, not sure. Check out AVSForum; LOTS of information on this topic.

 

[Meuge]

Originally posted by: Matthias99

Originally posted by: Meuge
What we really need is a card that can take analog HDTV content from a component input, and encode it in real time to a 720p avi.

They make them (well, they take SDI inputs, but you can get a pricey component->SDI transcoder), but they are quite expensive. At that point you're talking professional-level production gear.

I wonder why it's so expensive. I can understand that it can be expensive simply for the reason of being useful as professional production equipment, but I can't imagine that some electronics manufacturer in Taiwan hasn't considered how profitable mass production of such equipment would be.

I think that if it was under $500 for the card, I'd buy one... and I know at least 2 more people who would as well.

 

[newParadigm]

YES!!

Check this out guys...if you can find out if your Digital Cable broadcasts in Clear(unencrypted) QAM for the standard channels, then you should be able to access all your non-Pay channels via this USB HDTV Tuner.

Now, I believe DISH network satellite broadcasts are tranponded (or w/e the correct term is) to QAM at the box on the Dish (i.e. before it comes to your set top box. So...in theory, if its Clear QAM, you could just run a Coaxial cable from the Dish to the above tuner card, since the Signal is QAM at that point (again this is all assuming that its Clear QAM).

Let me know what you think HDTV gurus...

 

[RobsTV]

Sasem OnAir HDTV USB supports QAM cable, but a little pricey at around $220..
I use it, and it works well.

DTV uses DSS, which PC cards can not do.
Most other sat providers use DVB-S (Dish, BellExpressView, etc).
Most sat channels are encrypted, which simply software ..........
DVB-S cards are now very cheap, and very common (under $80 for Twinhan 1020a).
These cheap DVB-S cards also work great with sat HDTV, as long as you have a decent system.
You will find little to no info on DVB-S at AVSforums.
Google DVB-S for the best results.
We have had HDTV PVR systems long before it was available to by major providers, simply by using a PC equiped with a DVB-S card, and decent software like MyTheatre (dvbcore).

Some tested cards that work great:
AccessDTV OTA HDTV card.
Sasem above (personal favorite).
For DVB-S, all at less than $100:
Twinhan 1020a (most popular).
Twinhan Starbox USB2 (supports HDTV and DiSEqC motor).
Skystar USB (only USB 1.1, so no HDTV).
Skystar2 PCI (strongest tuner).

 

[newParadigm]

Originally posted by: RobsTV
Sasem OnAir HDTV USB supports QAM cable, but a little pricey at around $220..
I use it, and it works well.

DTV uses DSS, which PC cards can not do.
Most other sat providers use DVB-S (Dish, BellExpressView, etc).
Most sat channels are encrypted, which simply software ..........
DVB-S cards are now very cheap, and very common (under $80 for Twinhan 1020a).
These cheap DVB-S cards also work great with sat HDTV, as long as you have a decent system.
You will find little to no info on DVB-S at AVSforums.
Google DVB-S for the best results.
We have had HDTV PVR systems long before it was available to by major providers, simply by using a PC equiped with a DVB-S card, and decent software like MyTheatre (dvbcore).

Some tested cards that work great:
AccessDTV OTA HDTV card.
Sasem above (personal favorite).
For DVB-S, all at less than $100:
Twinhan 1020a (most popular).
Twinhan Starbox USB2 (supports HDTV and DiSEqC motor).
Skystar USB (only USB 1.1, so no HDTV).
Skystar2 PCI (strongest tuner).

So does this mean that i can plug in one of the coax lines currently connected to my DISH DVR, and get my channels..or no, because they are encrypted?

 

[Matthias99]

Originally posted by: Meuge

Originally posted by: Matthias99

Originally posted by: Meuge
What we really need is a card that can take analog HDTV content from a component input, and encode it in real time to a 720p avi.

They make them (well, they take SDI inputs, but you can get a pricey component->SDI transcoder), but they are quite expensive. At that point you're talking professional-level production gear.

I wonder why it's so expensive. I can understand that it can be expensive simply for the reason of being useful as professional production equipment, but I can't imagine that some electronics manufacturer in Taiwan hasn't considered how profitable mass production of such equipment would be.

You need an encoder or transcoder chip that can handle a 720p data stream in real time. Yes, there's some of the "professionals need this, so we can make it twice as expensive for no good reason" factor, but this is not something you're going to do (well) with cheap hardware. I don't know of any general-purpose processor that could do that in real time, which means you have to use a specialized encoder chip, and the market for 720p/1080i encoders is not a huge one (and is mostly in the professional video production realm).

I think that if it was under $500 for the card, I'd buy one... and I know at least 2 more people who would as well.

I don't think the market for this is really that big -- especially since such cards cannot handle anything that is encrypted with HDCP (which most everything except OTA HDTV and sometimes local HD from cable is). You can get relatively cheap tuner cards for OTA HDTV, and there are other solutions (like firewire) for watching HD cable on a PC.

 

[RobsTV]

Originally posted by: newParadigm

Originally posted by: RobsTV
Sasem OnAir HDTV USB supports QAM cable, but a little pricey at around $220..
I use it, and it works well.

DTV uses DSS, which PC cards can not do.
Most other sat providers use DVB-S (Dish, BellExpressView, etc).
Most sat channels are encrypted, which simply software ..........
DVB-S cards are now very cheap, and very common (under $80 for Twinhan 1020a).
These cheap DVB-S cards also work great with sat HDTV, as long as you have a decent system.
You will find little to no info on DVB-S at AVSforums.
Google DVB-S for the best results.

So does this mean that i can plug in one of the coax lines currently connected to my DISH DVR, and get my channels..or no, because they are encrypted?

Not exactly, but pretty close.
All of this can be a grey area.
I will not mention anything that may cause thread to get "grey", even though all legal and legit..
Best to simply google DVB-S.
You can get HDTV sat programming with full PVR/DVR easily and cheap on your PC.
No extra receiver's are needed.
You will NOT get Dish because they use a special modulation (8PSK) for HDTV that is not supported.
Other sat providers (same and better programming) use modulation methods that are supported (QPSK), and work great.
But if you plan on recording HDTV, or enable timeshifting, be aware that it uses a lot of space.
Recording Live real time HDTV from sat here uses about 9 gigs per hour.
I also use a 6 gig HD file buffer so that I can pause live HDTV for about up to 40 minutes.

 

[88NovaTwincam]

What exactly does a QAM card such as the Fusion5 Here do?

As i understand the QAM let's you get HD from your cable feed, not just OTA..
but not sure if you have to get digital cable or can use basic as I have..

 

[Meuge]

Originally posted by: Matthias99

Originally posted by: Meuge

Originally posted by: Matthias99

Originally posted by: Meuge
What we really need is a card that can take analog HDTV content from a component input, and encode it in real time to a 720p avi.

They make them (well, they take SDI inputs, but you can get a pricey component->SDI transcoder), but they are quite expensive. At that point you're talking professional-level production gear.

I wonder why it's so expensive. I can understand that it can be expensive simply for the reason of being useful as professional production equipment, but I can't imagine that some electronics manufacturer in Taiwan hasn't considered how profitable mass production of such equipment would be.

You need an encoder or transcoder chip that can handle a 720p data stream in real time. Yes, there's some of the "professionals need this, so we can make it twice as expensive for no good reason" factor, but this is not something you're going to do (well) with cheap hardware. I don't know of any general-purpose processor that could do that in real time, which means you have to use a specialized encoder chip, and the market for 720p/1080i encoders is not a huge one (and is mostly in the professional video production realm).

I think that if it was under $500 for the card, I'd buy one... and I know at least 2 more people who would as well.

I don't think the market for this is really that big -- especially since such cards cannot handle anything that is encrypted with HDCP (which most everything except OTA HDTV and sometimes local HD from cable is). You can get relatively cheap tuner cards for OTA HDTV, and there are other solutions (like firewire) for watching HD cable on a PC.

Component is analog. HDCP is only applicable while the data is transmitted in digital format (HDMI). As soon as it's converted to the 3-channel analog component it's up for grabs.

 

[T2k]

Originally posted by: Meuge

Originally posted by: Matthias99

Originally posted by: Meuge
What we really need is a card that can take analog HDTV content from a component input, and encode it in real time to a 720p avi.

They make them (well, they take SDI inputs, but you can get a pricey component->SDI transcoder), but they are quite expensive. At that point you're talking professional-level production gear.

I wonder why it's so expensive. I can understand that it can be expensive simply for the reason of being useful as professional production equipment, but I can't imagine that some electronics manufacturer in Taiwan hasn't considered how profitable mass production of such equipment would be.

I think that if it was under $500 for the card, I'd buy one... and I know at least 2 more people who would as well.

Actually it's not that expensive at all - my 'old' Decklink HD is under $600 now and comes with codec, even some capture app but of course, you'll use other sw. It's HDSDI only, tho, that's why it's cheap. If you buy an YPrPb-HDSDI converter (ie AJA) for $1,500, you can capture everything...
But probably the best bet nowadays is a Multibridge Extreme, around $2,600 - it's some all-in-one PCI-E stuff: http://blackmagic-design.com/products/multibridge/specs/

 

[SynthDude2001]

Originally posted by: 88NovaTwincam
What exactly does a QAM card such as the Fusion5 Here do?

As i understand the QAM let's you get HD from your cable feed, not just OTA..
but not sure if you have to get digital cable or can use basic as I have..

That card (along with others that can do unencrypted QAM, like the MyHD MDP-130 that I have) will indeed allow you to get HD over cable as long as they don't encrypt all the channels, you are correct. Unless they bother to put a filter on your cable line to block the specific channels that digital content is transmitted on (they usually don't), you can receive the unencrypted QAM broadcasts. What channels those are will vary by area and cable provider, but generally/often all the local HD channels are unencrypted, and sometimes one or more of the other HD channels may be unencrypted as well. It's not just HD either necessarily - right now I get NBC, CBS, PBS, and ABC over cable (local provider doesn't carry FOX HD so I have to get that OTA), but I also get NBC Universal HD, as well as many "regular" digital cable channels that they for whatever reason are not encrypting. I don't bother to really watch them since a max of 704x480i (usually even lower like 528x480i or even 352x480i) looks like crap on a 20" widescreen LCD

So it really depends on where you live and who your cable provider is, but often you can indeed get at least your local HD channels over cable with just basic cable.

 

[88NovaTwincam]

The MyHD MDP-130 is 2x the cost of the Fusion5lite
what does one get for the extra $100?

 

[SynthDude2001]

Originally posted by: 88NovaTwincam
The MyHD MDP-130 is 2x the cost of the Fusion5lite
what does one get for the extra $100?

Hardware MPEG2 decoder (=lower CPU usage) and two separate antenna/coax inputs, basically. The hardware decoder isn't such a big deal if you have a recent system, and the dual inputs may or may not be, depending on whether you need to get channels from two different sources at the same time/without swapping cables - like cable and OTA (which I do). I've not used the Fusion card myself, but a friend of mine on here has the DVB-T version (Australia) and is very happy with it. My brother has the US version and has always seemed to have problems with stuttering during HDTV watching, I kind of doubt it's an issue with the card though.

In general I'd recommend the Fusion card just because it's cheaper, and still seems to work just fine.

 

[MrPickins]

I have the Fusion5 Gold, and have had few problems with it. I dont have cable, so i haven't tried the QAM features, but the ota reception is excellent.

The software is functional, but a bit akward at first. Overall, though, I'm pleased with it.

 

[Matthias99]

Originally posted by: Meuge
Component is analog. HDCP is only applicable while the data is transmitted in digital format (HDMI). As soon as it's converted to the 3-channel analog component it's up for grabs.

And, how, pray tell, do you plan on getting your content into HD component? Most digital cable boxes will now only output protected content in HD over DVI/HDMI with HDCP, and Blu-Ray/HD-DVD players will be the same way.

What, exactly, would you be capturing?

 

[Markbnj]

The MDP-130 is interesting. I wish this had popped up in my search before I dropped dough on a TV Wonder Elite. Does anyone know what the MDP's daughter card does? Is it necessary?

 

[Meuge]

Originally posted by: Matthias99

Originally posted by: Meuge
Component is analog. HDCP is only applicable while the data is transmitted in digital format (HDMI). As soon as it's converted to the 3-channel analog component it's up for grabs.

And, how, pray tell, do you plan on getting your content into HD component? Most digital cable boxes will now only output protected content in HD over DVI/HDMI with HDCP, and Blu-Ray/HD-DVD players will be the same way.

What, exactly, would you be capturing?

Tons of digital TVs sold over the past years don't have HDMI inputs. AFAIK Time Warner HD cable boxes ONLY do component out. If they suddenly said they'd only do HDCP-enabled HDMI out, half their customers wouldn't be able to watch TV.

 

[Matthias99]

Originally posted by: Meuge

Originally posted by: Matthias99

Originally posted by: Meuge
Component is analog. HDCP is only applicable while the data is transmitted in digital format (HDMI). As soon as it's converted to the 3-channel analog component it's up for grabs.

And, how, pray tell, do you plan on getting your content into HD component? Most digital cable boxes will now only output protected content in HD over DVI/HDMI with HDCP, and Blu-Ray/HD-DVD players will be the same way.

What, exactly, would you be capturing?

Tons of digital TVs sold over the past years don't have HDMI inputs. AFAIK Time Warner HD cable boxes ONLY do component out. If they suddenly said they'd only do HDCP-enabled HDMI out, half their customers wouldn't be able to watch TV.

Consider yourself lucky; Comcast ONLY does (encrypted) DVI/HDMI/Firewire out for encrypted things (at least in some markets). You can only watch 480i/p over component. My point is that, for many people, there is a fairly limited amount of HD content that is not encrypted and cannot be viewed/captured with a cheaper alternative.

People with non-HDCP HDTVs are going to be SOL if they want to watch Blu-Ray/HD-DVD content.